glouthan Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Wow, 20 appeals, there are always going to be people that don't like change. Yeah, that's for sure! And it's like people think that this coaster is going to change everything. It's not. These RMC coasters are actually visually appealing with their natural colors, they're not some cotton candy colored pink track with orange supports (just look at Outlaw Run at SDC, it blends in with the natural landscape). So, it blend in with the surrounding area, and noise could most likely be reduced, heck, they're one of the most innovative companies, I'm sure they could figure out *some* way to reduce noise. I guess that the wildlife issue is the only one they need to address. but anyways, let's hope the delay is short!
jray21 Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Glad to hear they are still going forward with the ride.
_koppen Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Kolmården is going to appeal the decision to the Land and Enviorment court. This is the fast way of obtaining the license, if they go Kolmården's way. Then Wildfire can happen in 2016, maybe mid to late summer but still 2016. If they say no then the zoning plan will have to be created and the ride will be delayed.
TPRrickard Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I'm honestly not very optimistic. There will definitely be changes to land and surroundings, and this would probably be an immediate negative from the Land and Environment court. At least from what I've been told, they are pretty sensitive about these things. Let's hope they reconsider, a 2016 opening would be great!
_koppen Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I'm honestly not very optimistic. There will definitely be changes to land and surroundings, and this would probably be an immediate negative from the Land and Environment court. At least from what I've been told, they are pretty sensitive about these things. Let's hope they reconsider, a 2016 opening would be great! I actually don't know what to expect to be honest. The Land and Environment court is just hell to deal with, but at the same time I don't know if Kolmården would appeal to this level unless they were very confident that they have a strong case. I wonder when the court will treat the case, I hope it won't take long until it starts.
TPRrickard Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 ^^ For now, I'll just pretend Wildfire was never announced to avoid being completely disappointed. The worst possible outcome is compromising layout/height to satisfy länsstyrelsen. This is probably just me, but not having Wildfire being build at all would be less of a disappointment than compromising the entire ride. Just the thought of it makes me depressed. I'll stay pessimistic and keep telling myself we're looking at zoning plans and a multiple year delay, even if it's exaggerated. Just no more disappointment, please.
_koppen Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 ^^ For now, I'll just pretend Wildfire was never announced to avoid being completely disappointed. The worst possible outcome is compromising layout/height to satisfy länsstyrelsen. This is probably just me, but not having Wildfire being build at all would be less of a disappointment than compromising the entire ride. Just the thought of it makes me depressed. I'll stay pessimistic and keep telling myself we're looking at zoning plans and a multiple year delay, even if it's exaggerated.Just no more disappointment, please. No reason to worry, the ride will happen the way it is designed. Worst case scenario is that they loose out in court and have to make a zoning plan. This probably means a 1-2 year delay, but it will still happen. There is absolutely NO way that the town politicians are not going to let them build it in the zoning plan, and they won't make the same mistakes as in the first application.
gerstlaueringvar Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Height reduce might not be a bad thing. See Goliath vs. Medusa, RMC works better with less height+terrain!
TPRrickard Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Height reduce might not be a bad thing. See Goliath vs. Medusa, RMC works better with less height+terrain! Totally agree! Remember what Lisebergs original plans for Helix were? Good thing Helix happened and Green Fire didn't. But considering Wildfire uses basically all the length+terrain it can, it would be a shame if anything at all was compromised. It's pitch perfect right now in my opinion. No reason to worry, the ride will happen the way it is designed. Worst case scenario is that they loose out in court and have to make a zoning plan. This probably means a 1-2 year delay, but it will still happen. There is absolutely NO way that the town politicians are not going to let them build it in the zoning plan, and they won't make the same mistakes as in the first application. That's a big relief. In that case, I'll be hoping for a mid/late-summer 2016 opening at the earliest!
rcjp Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Height reduce might not be a bad thing. See Goliath vs. Medusa, RMC works better with less height+terrain! True. But I think his point is the ride looks perfect as it is and, therefore, changes would probably not be a great thing.
dcxs Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Height reduce might not be a bad thing. See Goliath vs. Medusa, RMC works better with less height+terrain! Totally agree! Remember what Lisebergs original plans for Helix were? Good thing Helix happened and Green Fire didn't. But considering Wildfire uses basically all the length+terrain it can, it would be a shame if anything at all was compromised. It's pitch perfect right now in my opinion. Disagree with all my soul , I think the first concept for Helix looked like a good first spot contender for the Nr.1 steel in the world. Not that Helix as it is now isnt very good but the first concept was insane, tallest in Europe etc.
TPRrickard Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Height reduce might not be a bad thing. See Goliath vs. Medusa, RMC works better with less height+terrain! Totally agree! Remember what Lisebergs original plans for Helix were? Good thing Helix happened and Green Fire didn't. But considering Wildfire uses basically all the length+terrain it can, it would be a shame if anything at all was compromised. It's pitch perfect right now in my opinion. Disagree with all my soul , I think the first concept for Helix looked like a good first spot contender for the Nr.1 steel in the world. Not that Helix as it is now isnt very good but the first concept was insane, tallest in Europe etc. Pretty hard to know I guess! Helix is a case of Jack of all trades - master of none, and I just have a feeling that Green Fire would have been a one trick pony with its drop, not to mention Liseberg as a park would be ruined for a long time. Like 'Liseberg' said, Green Fire would have become a coaster with a park around it.
_koppen Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 After what I've been reading the last days it becomes more and more clear that Wildfire won't happen for 2016. Even if they succeed in appealing the case (which will take up to 6 months) there is another level it can be appealed to by the resistance. So I'm no longer hoping for a quick fix.
jray21 Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 That's too bad, but at least it gives me more time to plan a trip out there to ride it!
Slem Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 No reason to worry, the ride will happen the way it is designed. Worst case scenario is that they loose out in court and have to make a zoning plan. This probably means a 1-2 year delay, but it will still happen. There is absolutely NO way that the town politicians are not going to let them build it in the zoning plan, and they won't make the same mistakes as in the first application. Unfortunately the municipal politicians have no say if Länsstyrelsen say no. So even if they make a local plan it is not granted that wildfire will be built. Especially considering that Kolmården is located in a vulnerable area with a lot of restrictions it could be difficult the get a permit. Länsstyrelsen could also demand all sorts of reports/studies of the area to prove that wildfire won't disrupt neighbours/nature too much, making it an incredibly slow process. :c:c:c:c:c
_koppen Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Unfortunately the municipal politicians have no say if Länsstyrelsen say no. So even if they make a local plan it is not granted that wildfire will be built. Especially considering that Kolmården is located in a vulnerable area with a lot of restrictions it could be difficult the get a permit. Länsstyrelsen could also demand all sorts of reports/studies of the area to prove that wildfire won't disrupt neighbours/nature too much, making it an incredibly slow process. :c:c:c:c:c It is up to the local politicians to make the zoning plan, Länsstyrelsen can only stop it if something is wrong. As I wrote, they will make sure that they don't do the same misstake again before finalizing the zoning plan.
Slem Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 It is up to the local politicians to make the zoning plan, Länsstyrelsen can only stop it if something is wrong. As I wrote, they will make sure that they don't do the same misstake again before finalizing the zoning plan. Well, partly. It depends on what kind of zoning there is around the park. Some zones are decided on a governmental or even EU level e.g. 'Natura 2000'. But I don't know what the exact zoning is in the area. All that I know is that Kolmården is located in some type of reserve (which is usually a decision from Länsstyrelsen) so it could get really bad if Länsstyrelsen decide that wildfire isn't compatible with the existing zoning = it is not entierly up to the municipality to decide.
tooooobbe Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Slem is right. I think that the ride will be built but there are no way of knowing at this time. The local politics and park really f*cked it up this time. It's so basic to make sure you actually are allowed to build before you start it.
_koppen Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Well, partly. It depends on what kind of zoning there is around the park. Some zones are decided on a governmental or even EU level e.g. 'Natura 2000'. But I don't know what the exact zoning is in the area. All that I know is that Kolmården is located in some type of reserve (which is usually a decision from Länsstyrelsen) so it could get really bad if Länsstyrelsen decide that wildfire isn't compatible with the existing zoning = it is not entierly up to the municipality to decide. Kolmården is not part of the Natura 2000 area. The park area is also exempt from the national interest for outdoor recreation and nature conservation. The park area is already there as well, so it can't be treated as "untouched" nature. If a properly made zoning plan is rejected by Länsstyrelsen then they have gotten outside of their authority. They can say that the information given in the plan is not satisfying, in which case the plan is not properly made.
_koppen Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 The train looks awesome! Overview This is the station, love the tree! They have started to plant foliage Entrance for the ship ride Interior Interior Source
805Andrew Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Wildfire looks amazing with its RMC elements through the terrain and the woods and will definitely put Kolmarden (which I have never heard of prior) on the map when it opens. I love terrain coasters and this looks like the best one yet. While the delay due to permit/zoning issues is a shortcoming, I'm sure this project will eventually come to fruition, hopefully with this original design. I'd rather wait longer for this ride to open and have it be at its full potential then have them cut corners and modify the ride to get it open sooner. Plus this will give me more time to save money for a trip to Scandinavia, especially since I am going to Japan this Summer.
Slem Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Kolmården is not part of the Natura 2000 area. The park area is also exempt from the national interest for outdoor recreation and nature conservation. The park area is already there as well, so it can't be treated as "untouched" nature. If a properly made zoning plan is rejected by Länsstyrelsen then they have gotten outside of their authority. They can say that the information given in the plan is not satisfying, in which case the plan is not properly made. No, Kolmården is not part of the actual reserve, but sits right next to it. A huge insvesment like Wildfire could disrupt cultural/social, ecological and even economic values in the surrounding area, which means that it is Länsstyrelsens business. To take your argument to extreme would be to place a nuclear plant in you backyard and say that "you other people have no authority here, because this is my land"... And just for the record: it might seem as if i'm trying to bug the hell out of you, but I am only trying to be realistic and look at both sides. At this point it is not granted that Wildfire will be built. My personal believfs (and hopes) is that they will, in time, get a permit for Wildfire. But, as I said before, at this point it is not granted that they will.
_koppen Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 No, Kolmården is not part of the actual reserve, but sits right next to it. A huge insvesment like Wildfire could disrupt cultural/social, ecological and even economic values in the surrounding area, which means that it is Länsstyrelsens business. To take your argument to extreme would be to place a nuclear plant in you backyard and say that "you other people have no authority here, because this is my land"... I think you might be a bit to overly pessimistic right now. Sure politicians are mostly acting crazy here in Sweden, but in this case I think it's guaranteed that Wildfire is built, unless the park get's enough of it and scraps the project. The park is right next to the reserves yes, but it's not part of them. As I wrote the park is already heavily built. The ride is also far from as big as people are making it out to be in their appeals. It will only take up 7 520 square meters, and the tallest point above the ground is 33 meters. It can't be seen from any of the local residents, and independent sound experts have given it green light for both animals and residents. What Länsstyrelsen said in the appeal is that they wanted more information, and once that is given it will get the go-ahead. Maybe they will win the appeal and it's happening even sooner, because I'm guessing they will provide a crapload of more information in the appeal than they did in the original application.
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