Amusement Today's Golden Ticket Awards 2013

[David H]

You're going to hate me for this Robb, but hear me out.

 

If I had to vote between Cedar Point and Tokyo DisneySea, I'd probably give my vote to Cedar Point

I stopped reading after this because there is no point. I would have zero respect for anything else you would say following that statement.

 

The problem with the Golden Tickets is you have a bunch of roller coaster weirdos voting on "theme parks" that cannot separate the fact that "Top Thrill Dragster" doesn't make a "theme park", and Amusement Today is either too stupid or too scared to have two different categories. There is simply no other explanation for such an obvious flaw in the awards.

 

Tokyo DisneySea and Europa Park should *NOT* be in the same category as Cedar Point or Knoebel's.

 

Actually, I completely agree, which if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post you'd see. I even said that I'd vote for Europa Park above either of those parks because it's one of very, very few parks that actually succeeds and excels as BOTH an amusement park and a theme park. I repeatedly said that Disneysea was one of the very best parks in the world and the very best THEME PARK. But ultimately, the category is "best park", not "best theme park" and I care more about rides than theming, although I really appreciate both -- which is why Europa would actually get my vote.

 

They're very different goals and experiences. I think you broke it down well yourself in your description of the difference between an amusement park and a theme park. Ultimately, an amusement park is more about the rides themselves, whereas a theme park is often more about the theming and the overall experience, which is effectively a show. For that reason, I agree that the categories should be separated. But as of now, they're not.

 

There are people who are more "ride people" and people who are more "show people". Show people are the types that will want to ride a Disney ride again and again many times per visit and per year. With their favorite Broadway-type shows, they'll want to see them again and again. I can certainly appreciate a good show. I was just on Broadway two weeks ago when other plans got cancelled. (And dammit, Newsies sold out with the person just ahead of me in line!) I've been to NINE Disney parks and three Universal parks in the past 12 months. Obviously I enjoy them. But ultimately, I don't find the time to go to that many shows. I'd rather see a different show than the same one multiple times. And at Disney parks, for all but the very best "show-y" rides, I'm happy to ride them once or maybe a few times, but then I'm ready to move on, and don't need to go back for a few years. Ultimately, In most cases, I want to see the pre-show -- once -- and then I'd honestly rather just skip ahead to the ride.

 

Call me a "roller coaster weirdo" all you want. But as much as I enjoy both experiences, I'm more of a "ride person" than a "show person". I love a great roller coaster over the most immersive ride experience, with a mediocre ride attached. If that makes me worthy of "zero respect" from you, then so be it. But it's not an inexperienced, uneducated opinion. If you can't respect my different opinion, then again so be it.

 

Ultimately, as much as I enjoy both experiences, what gets me most excited is a good thrilling ride or coaster. And when you strip out the "show" elements of DisneySea (which, of course, no one would ever want to do), ultimately they have a (surprisingly improved) mid-sized coaster, a freefall, a peoplemover, a video game ride, some transport rides, some kiddie rides, and a bunch of shows. Of course, you can't strip out the show elements, and that's why if they allowed multiple positions, I'd easily put DisneySea in my top 3, despite its lack of multiple really thrilling rides. I'm not even a huge fan of Phoenix, but I'd much rather ride it again and again and again over anything at Disneysea.

 

Luckily, in the real world, I don't have to choose between the two. I'll go to DisneySea AND Cedar Point AND Europa Park AND Knoebels over the years. It's easy enough to get a mix of parks on most vacations.

 

That said, I agree with many of the other comments. Epcot has amazing food (although Tivoli actually has more top-rated restaurants.) I suspect that most people don't vote for it in this category because they most of them are owned by outside vendors, like those at Tivoli. Blizzard Beach absolutely is one of the top water parks in the world, though I'd definitely give the edge to Schlitterbahn in overall rides. (Again, rides vs show.) The concept of Knoebels having the third best Halloween event in the world is ludicrous (even if they did expand it to the whole month.) And shouldn't Universal Hollywood be on that list? Ocean Park's event is world class, too! But does anyone even in the industry care who came in third or fourth in any category, besides coasters?

 

As to the concept of the poll as a popularity contest, isn't that what most polls are? I mean, when you ask someone in a poll who they're going to vote for, you don't generally ask people to rank all of their qualifications. You're asking who they like, and who they're going to vote for. If you took a poll of "best song", you wouldn't ask people to describe the keys and melodies and other technical stuff; you ask them which they like. The GTA's go out of their way to try to get a more experienced, well traveled poll panel. But generally, with the vast majority of poll methodologies, the winner is the one who gets the most votes.

 

These are ultimately industry awards. They're not even for "us", really. They're for the parks to brag about winning an award in some of their advertising. We already have Mitch's awards for US.

[cmullin]

It's just a popularity contest. Ever since MF and Bizarro opened they've been the top 2 coasters. For a while, that was probably accurate, but now, I think that most enthusiasts would rank I305 and maybe even Leviathan just as high, or higher than those two. And the poll for best amusement parks is ridiculous. You can't compare Cedar Point and SFMM to USIOA or Disneyworld or Europa Park, they're totally different parks and totally different experiences. Mitch Hawker poll is WAY better, if only they had a poll for best Amusement Park and Theme Park.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

Robb, You guys should make a "Theme Park Awards" so we can see actual results

 

What do you think?

[David H]

^^ Millennium Force clearly wins from sheer number of votes. Like it or not, there are way more people who like MF and list it as their favorite coaster than any other coaster on the planet. Personally, I disagree, and it barely makes my top 100. But I know way too many people (even many well travelled enthusiasts) who truly love it and put it as their undisputed number one. I think it hits that sweet spot with being fast and somewhat intense without being too intense, like a lot of the B&M hypers, particularly Nitro.

 

Bizarro, on the other hand DOES have that intensity. In the 11 years Mitch has done the steel poll since Superman/Bizarro opened, it has ranked at #1 in 7 of them, and #2 in the other 4. Last year, it came in second place by just 5 votes out of 37 mutual votes cast.

 

Intimidator 305 came in #4 on Mitch's poll. Leviathan came in #18.

 

^ And I'd definitely be curious to see what would win in a TPR awards.

Edited September 10, 2013 by David H

[rollin_n_coastin]

These are the awards that helped convince me to go to the US and even Cedar Point before I was an enthusiast. In that respect, they probably do carry a bit of weight in winning markets. Now as an enthusiast, I find even paying attention to these is a nausea inducing experience because of all the strange inconsistencies and absurdities, many of which haven been discussed in this thread already.

 

Given that, I guess it shouldn't make our heads explode as to why theme parks aren't treated differently from amusement parks for all categories. Also, New Texas Giant below a B&M Hyper? Again, it's just the GTAs! Some way to maintain credibility.

[goatdan]

They aren't exactly a popularity contest, but they aren't exactly perfect either...

 

The problem with calling them a popularity contest is that you still have oddities. Yearly as I think most of us know, the most people in the US visit the Magic Kingdom (at least I think that's still right), and then it goes down from there. What I've always seen is that the GTA awards are actually more of a park PR award.

 

Those parks that are great at getting the word out about the rides / attractions / whatever that they have are the parks that win. Just as a for instance, if you're not around Sandusky, if you ask a random person what the best roller coaster park in the US is, Cedar Point seems to always be named... because for years, they have had rides that went national due to a great PR campaign. The smaller parks get themselves talked about from the sentimentality standpoint, and again build some great PR that holds up with these polls.

 

The parks that are the best at promoting that their [whatever] is the best are the parks that get these particular awards, and the industry plays along because it reinforces publicly that they have the best [whatever], thus making it easier for them to continue to win that award.

 

I'd be really curious to know how many people who voted actually voted for things that they actually did, versus what they just heard about.

[Jew]

^^Millennium Force clearly wins from sheer number of votes. Like it or not, there are way more people who like MF and list it as their favorite coaster than any other coaster on the planet. Personally, I disagree, and it barely makes my top 100. But I know way too many people (even many well travelled enthusiasts) who truly love it and put it as their undisputed number one. I think it hits that sweet spot with being fast and somewhat intense without being too intense, like a lot of the B&M hypers, particularly Nitro.

 

Do we even know if the Golden Ticket has more voters than Mitch's poll? Millennium Force finished 14th in that one, so I think it is safe to say there are plenty of people out there who don't list it as their favorite coaster.

[David H]

^^Millennium Force clearly wins from sheer number of votes. Like it or not, there are way more people who like MF and list it as their favorite coaster than any other coaster on the planet. Personally, I disagree, and it barely makes my top 100. But I know way too many people (even many well travelled enthusiasts) who truly love it and put it as their undisputed number one. I think it hits that sweet spot with being fast and somewhat intense without being too intense, like a lot of the B&M hypers, particularly Nitro.

 

Do we even know if the Golden Ticket has more voters than Mitch's poll? Millennium Force finished 14th in that one, so I think it is safe to say there are plenty of people out there who don't list it as their favorite coaster.

 

The number of total voters isn't all that important. What's important in the GTA's is the number of people who have voted a particular coaster in their top 10. Clearly, there are more, from the results.

 

But look at Mitch's poll data for my point. It uses a completely different algorithm to come up with the results, and as such gets completely different results. It's also a very common algorithm, used in many different polls. But look at the actual data and the ballots from Mitch's poll.

 

If we're looking at sheer number of votes, If Mitch's poll used the GTA's algorithm, MF would win there too.

 

If doesn't matter in the GTA's in any way how many people DON'T list a coaster as their favorite -- or in their top 10. All that matters is how many people DO. In Mitch's poll, those who vote it lower will negatively impact on its results.

 

All you really need to look at is the ridership numbers in Mitch's poll to understand why MF has a huge advantage in any poll using the GTA's algorithm. . In last year's poll, 246 people ranked Millennium Force, 146 people ranked Bizarro and 101 people ranked Expedition GeForce. That means that MF has nearly twice the riders of Bizarro and 2.5 times the number or riders as EGF. If you're only counting the number of top 10 spots each ride gets, and counting those points accordingly, that would mean that MF only needs to half about half as many riders AS A PERCENTAGE actually rank it in the top 10 to win.

 

I did a quick search of last year's Mitch steel ballots, and found that:

79 out of 246 -- or 32% -- people ranked MF as their #1.

38 out of 101 -- or 38% -- people ranked EGF as their #1.

43 out of 146 -- or 29% -- people ranked Bizarro as their #1.

 

I'm going to guess that the rankings for the rest of the top 10 are relatively similar. However I have seen that most of those who love MF LOVE it and have it as #1, so it's possible that doesn't have quite the same percentage of votes in the rest of the top 10. In fact, I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of people who don't love MF who ranked it significantly lower than people did for EGF or Bizarro, or MF would rank higher in Mitch's poll. (I put EGF at 4, Bizarro at 6, and MF at 91, so I'm certainly not arguing for my own personal opinion here!)

 

But with around twice as many actual votes as either of the others, MF would have gotten twice as many points if Mitch's poll were counted the same way as the GTA's.

 

 

As to goatdan's question of why certain parks constantly win, it's simple. Those are the parks that more coaster and theme park enthusiasts are likely to have visited. Other than Disney and Universal, which are cultural icons that people often visit with their families from a young age, where does every coaster geek want to visit? Cedar Point. It's the most universally known coaster park in the world. After that, you've got SFGAdv (at least now that El Toro is there), Kings Island (mainly because of its large number of coasters and its proximity to Cedar Point, making it easy to hit on the same trip), Holiday World, Kennywood, Knoebels, maybe Magic Mountain (for its sheer number of coasters and the fact that people can hit it on a trip to Disneyland), probably Dollywood in recent years. These are legendary parks in coaster enthusiasts circles. Europa Park is finally getting there, as are the Tokyo Disney parks. It's not surprising that more of us have been to these parks. As such, they're going to win more votes and do better in any poll that uses the total number of votes cast for a ride or park in their methodology.

 

On a similar note, why do Schlitterbahn and Holiday World always do the best in the water park parts of the poll? Because most coaster geeks aren't major water park fans? Because most of us are smart enough not to go to Orlando in the Summer, so most of us have never experienced Disney's water parks? (I've been to each of them once.) Because Schlitterbahn is the biggest water park in the world, hosts an awesome enthusiast event, and often has add-on days before or after major coaster events? Because since Holiday World includes the water park in their coaster event, it's one of the only water parks that many of the voters have ever been to? All of these and more.

 

I wouldn't take too much stock in the rankings for water parks. Not enough people on the poll have been to more than a few of them. Admittedly, I have, and I'd have to say that Schlitterbahn easily deserves its win every year. But I'm not sure that Schlitterbahn Galveston's win for indoor water park is really fair, since 3/4 of the park is outdoors, and the indoor part is only mildly impressive.

[Jew]

As to goatdan's question of why certain parks constantly win, it's simple. Those are the parks that more coaster and theme park enthusiasts are likely to have visited.

 

From what I have heard, the voter pool is skewered towards enthusiasts who have only hit the "big" parks, which is probably its biggest flaw...

[David H]

^ Huh? That doesn't even make sense. How would that even be possible to find people who have only hit "big" parks? I can't think of anyone I know who hasn't been to at least some big and small parks. Even if I'm not sure if you mean "big" as in the biggest chain parks, or "big" as in the most popular enthusiast parks (including smaller places like Knoebels or Holiday World.)

 

But either way, I'd point to Mitch's poll, which has no criteria at all for participating. The parks with the most riders in that poll are the most popular parks among enthusiasts. (Cedar Point, Holiday World, SFGAdv, Kings Island, Knoebels, Universal, etc.) Because more of us tend to go there. That's why they're popular among enthusiasts. ANY park and coaster poll is going to tend to get more enthusiasts who have been to those parks, because more enthusiasts have been there! In fact, if the poll didn't have lots of riders who had been to those parks, then it probably has a very flawed panel of voters.

 

Do people really think that that AT is really trying to find people with certain riding criteria before they let them into the poll group? That they're trying to fix the results towards certain parks? The only criteria they've asked for is that they be well-traveled enthusiasts with a preference towards those who have traveled internationally (to try to fight the inherent bias against non-US parks, because so few enthusiasts have been to them.)

 

Is there anyone who has actually been rejected when asking to be part of the poll? (Chuck, I'm assuming that your not getting a ballot was an oversight or that it was lost. I'd suggest contacting them to find out what happened.)

[ernierocker]

^Do you really need to keep writing novel after novel in your responses? The majority of posters on this forum are in agreement that the awards are nonsense, yet you keep making insanely long posts trying to defend them. You aren't going to change our minds especially when most of us probably aren't even reading more than a couple of lines of your long-winded spiels. Just let it go.

[cfc]

Is there anyone who has actually been rejected when asking to be part of the poll? (Chuck, I'm assuming that your not getting a ballot was an oversight or that it was lost. I'd suggest contacting them to find out what happened.)

 

It wasn't that high up on my priority list.

 

I didn't even think about the silly awards this year until someone mentioned the results were in.

[DougMJr]

Eh, I don't get too worked up about these polls and don't make an effort to participate because I know I couldn't cast an objective vote. I don't even think it is so much about bias, it is about poll participants not having experience with parks like DisneySea and parks outside their home country.

 

Cedar Point gets to display the little Golden Ticket underneath the Keyholes and the world keeps on turning.

[robbalvey]

Robb, You guys should make a "Theme Park Awards" so we can see actual results

 

What do you think?

Elissa and I think about this every year... for about 90 seconds... and then we realize that we don't have the time to put the amount of work that would need to go into it, nor do we need to give people ANOTHER reason to hate us! lol

[Hercules]

The Golden Tickets was an amazing event this year. I know that a lot of people don't agree them the winners (I don't either, and I was very shocked when Boulder Dash won best wood over El Toro) but it really was an incredible few days this year. I am already looking forward to San Diego next year.

[cfc]

Robb, You guys should make a "Theme Park Awards" so we can see actual results

 

What do you think?

Elissa and I think about this every year... for about 90 seconds... and then we realize that we don't have the time to put the amount of work that would need to go into it, nor do we need to give people ANOTHER reason to hate us! lol

 

Besides, Cedar Point would just win it every year, right?

[Hercules]

I agree with Robb on this one. This poll can't be taken seriously. It is a popularity contest mostly. How can anyone truly vote on the best coaster when they haven't ridden coaster all around the world or for that matter all around the US. This is the major reason for me why Mitch's poll is so much better.

 

It would be interest to have the break down of this poll by state and how many votes each state cast.

 

So then register to vote?

[Rollercoaster Rider]

Robb, You guys should make a "Theme Park Awards" so we can see actual results

 

What do you think?

Elissa and I think about this every year... for about 90 seconds... and then we realize that we don't have the time to put the amount of work that would need to go into it, nor do we need to give people ANOTHER reason to hate us! lol

 

 

I mean a poll for TPR members like you do for the future trips

[ernierocker]

^I think he already answered you.

[robbalvey]

I mean a poll for TPR members like you do for the future trips

Yeah, no. That would be dumb. JUST LIKE THE GOLDEN TICKETS!!! lol

[Rollercoaster Rider]

I don't feel that this article is worth it's own topic so here's the secrets to Cedar Point

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/secrets-world-best-amusement-park-162737569.html

[Hercules]

^ Wow. Some secrets.

[JJLehto]

While the Mitch Hawker poll is one million and seventy-six percent better for ranking coasters - unfortunately, it's not what the public sees. Golden Ticket awards are plastered all over the attractions they're given to, like on Bizarro at Six Flags New England. Yet, to my knowledge, I've never seen a park advertise the fact that they've placed high on the Mitch Hawker poll.

 

 

Oh of course this is the case.

With most things (music, movies, restaurants etc etc) the best often remain out of mainstream eye.

This tends to be good, because ya know yadda yadda "only true fans can enjoy" and the "industry" can have the GTA while we true riders havbe MH and so on.

 

Im sure most parks either dont know or care, thinking "just some internet poll" but smaller parks would do great to advertise "Hey screw the big boys! Look how high our coaster ranked on this more accurate poll!"

 

Oh wow, the GTA, uh...yeah. Whatever

[Jew]

I'll just leave it at this: the poll serves its purpose in the industry. Amusement Today gets to sell lots of congratulatory adds to all the parks, all the industry people get to have another place outside of IAAPA to get together to hang out, and the winning parks get a nice marketing tool to add to their arsenal.

 

When you compare it to Mitch's poll, I don't think there is any question the voter poll is skewered towards enthusiasts who are not very well traveled (my personal opinion is that many of the voters are ACEr's who think it is cool to be a voter and have only been to parks for enthusiast events or done trips to the midwest and/or east coast because the close proximity of so many credits).

 

I also want to say that Holiday Park advertised Expedition GeForce's ranking in Mitch's poll, and I think some other parks did as well.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Jew

[David H]

^Do you really need to keep writing novel after novel in your responses? The majority of posters on this forum are in agreement that the awards are nonsense, yet you keep making insanely long posts trying to defend them. You aren't going to change our minds especially when most of us probably aren't even reading more than a couple of lines of your long-winded spiels. Just let it go.

 

Sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum, not Twitter. My bad.

 

All awards are nonsense. Because we all have different opinions. Period.

 

Who's defending anything? I don't agree with just about any of the awards either. But I do find it interesting looking at why certain things win certain awards and also why people disagree with me. It's called discussion.