Geauga Lake Discussion Thread

[robbalvey]

But the park's fate was sealed in 04.

Agreed. And it was really too bad. When Six Flags opened "World of Adventure" they really did have a shot at real resort-ish type of place if they could have just figured out the right balance of finances. There is no way any park that huge could survive off of one admission price. And I think SF quickly figured that out. I also think that CF saw where they were heading and went "Oh f**k! If they figure out how to make this place work, it will be some serious competition for Cedar Point."

 

CF did probably what I would consider one of the smartest moves I've seen in the industry in the past decade. They swept in bought a growing Geauga Lake (however not yet thriving) just to shut it down before it gained any momentum that would take away from their flagship. Who knows, another year or two Six Flags might have actually figured out how to make it work, and they could have had a world-class park on their hands. But Cedar Fair was very quick to act and never even gave them the chance to figure it out.

 

And on top of it, they got a few world class additions for other parks in the chain at a fraction of the cost.

 

BRILLIANT MOVE!!!

 

I am one of the people who don't ever believe that when CF bought GL, they ever intended on doing anything but eventually shutting it down. They only kept it open long enough to fulfill whatever contracts they had agreed to, and to figure out what to do with the property long term.

 

I really did like GL (or I should say SFWOA), but man, what a smart thing to do for CF to wipe out any potential competition.

 

--Robb

Edited September 7, 2010 by robbalvey

[ajc47]

That's exactly what they did Robb. And it's a shame. Many of us who frequented GL also went to CP often. My family had season passes to both for years. Even as far away as CP is from here we kept going back year after year. So CF had nothing to worry about. All they accomplished with this was angry fans and bad PR.

Edited September 7, 2010 by ajc47

[robbalvey]

That's exactly what they did Robb. And it's a shame.

Not for Cedar Point!

 

Seriously though, it was. When I visited SFWOA in 2003 I had really high hopes for it! It was clear they had "something" there and it was just a matter of everything coming together and making it work.

 

But Six Flags never got that chance (nor did they allow themselves to either.) Let's be honest here, it's not just "shame on Cedar Fair" for sweeping in, but I do believe that Six Flags takes 50% of the blame for just throwing in the towel too early.

 

--Robb

[FeelTheFORCE]

^^^ It's funny you should make those points, all the signs that Six Flags WOA was gaining some steam were definitely there. I thought nothing of them then, but looking back on it now, I definitely see them clear as day. One example I can think of off hand is bus trips. Usually the bus companies, churches, schools, etc. would always go to Cedar Point, but during the peak of WOA, you would steadily see yearly trips change to Six Flags instead (not as much with the touring companies, but definitely a significant amount of church groups and schools in Pittsburgh and the surrounding area). Like I said, a small detail that went unnoticed to me back then, but definitely interesting now looking back.

[Geauga Dog]

But Six Flags never got that chance (nor did they allow themselves to either.) Let's be honest here, it's not just "shame on Cedar Fair" for sweeping in, but I do believe that Six Flags takes 50% of the blame for just throwing in the towel too early.

 

--Robb

 

It is my understanding that Six Flags had to find a way to get money or the banks would no longer give them loans. Couldn't they have sold Darien Lake, Frontier City, Elitch Gardens, and maybe Astroworld instead for what they got for SFWoA? Could it have lasted a little longer if the Paramount deal didn't take place?

 

I loved SFWoA and still to this day I wonder what it would have been like under Shapiro, especially after seeing photos of what they did to Marine World for the transition into Discovery Kingdom. I'm sure we would have seen the exorbitant prices and tacky advertising but you get some of that at CP anyway.

 

At the same time, after I visited Dorney Park in 2005, I could easily see this being the direction CF could have taken with Geauga Lake. Okay, take Dominator out (I would not have been happy but if it meant the park would remain open then I'm fine with that). Add some flats to fill in that dead space in the front where Mr. Hyde's used to be.

[Devious]

'cept, for me, it backfired, it was just one more reason to avoid CF Parks

 

For instance, Cedar point is a 3-hour 100$+ Trip, if i'm lucky i'll get on half the major coasters ONCE, and feed myself once on food worse than what i can get from a school cafeteria

 

Or, i can drive 83 minutes to Kennywood on 40$ and spend the whole day there on that (20$ in gas, 20$ for food = 3 meals + Drinks of excellent quality)

 

Not to mention the much more awesome traditional feel to Kennywood, the better rides (Phantom and skyrocket > Top fail, though Millie and Maggie are both pretty good when you can get several rides in, Phantom stealing my #1 spot from MF last year) and the better atmosphere in general

 

Not to mention my younger cousins can actually ride everything but Skyrocket now, given KW's low height requirements on everything where at cedar point they pretty much cant do anything but walk around or ride really crap kiddie rides they outgrew 2 years ago

 

Take a wild guess where our money goes? Give you a hint, starts with K and ends with ennywood, my family, my aunts church group, their families, etc. go to kennywood because they enjoy it more and Geauga lake is closed

 

Smart move for cedar fair, Stupid move for six flags, but one thing:

 

Cedar fair DID pull the rug out from under people with GL's closing, there was no warning to speak of, they just closed it, let it sit a while, then started tearing the place down, then used a lot of shady business (Like the joke of an auction and the constant removal of anything showing the teardown) to keep it off the books

 

I Have a CD Worth of photos showing the quality of rides and things left at GL Pre-teardown from my short visit there after closing (Legit - i was there with the demo company working on Raging wolf) the dipper was in pristine condition, though i doubt it is now

 

GL Was literally a stones throw from me, i always went there with friends, even before CF, it was an amazing park, if it were in any way a plausible thing, I'd love to see the dipper saved, hell, with my income i could literally buy it, the problem being logistics, the ride wasn't openly or obviously for sale until now, though we'd all heard rumors of him trying to pass it off for 100k (He paid 5k for it, and doesn't pay rent on it)

 

If he wants rid of it, and wants to legit see it saved, he would have sold it for twice what he paid, came out ahead, and let someone move it

 

But, like everything else, it's demolition is all just part of the plan, and it was from day 1

 

And robb, it may be a mediocre ride with good airtime, but then again, so is the blue streak at conneaut, and look what happened?

 

we all grouped up and helped save it, we got it the grant, they're actively working to restore the ride, and it will continue to run for years to come, i paid my share in the form of 5 rides on it during it's operating weekend

 

The thing there though is that the park WANTED it saved, they realize it's value to enthusiasts as a piece of history, and it's place in local history, where cedar fair just wants every trace of Geauga lake Bulldozed to ashes

 

You should have been at the farce open townhall meetings about it robb, they were some of the best comedy id seen, ever.

[ajc47]

3 hours? I can get to CP in half that. But I don't go for the reasons you just stated.

[Dailey Enterprizes]

I guess I don't feel too bad for only going to Cedar Point once and never going back. Yeah they have more roller coasters than anywhere else... I would gladly give them a cookie for that one, but roller coasters alone just don't do it for me. I rather hit up Coney Island in New York or Busch Gardens in Williamsburg. Then again I didn't make it to any parks this year, but maybe if they did something with the Mean Streak like freakin' fix the damn thing, then maybe I'd consider going back to Cedar Point.

 

As for Geauga Lake, well Cedar Fair deserves a kick in the shins for that one. I don't really care if it was "smart" from a business point of view because they screwed a local community that's in their own damn state. I am not even from Ohio and it makes me peeved because it was the last remaining park in that area (Euclid Beach and Idora Park come to mind) Now all they have is Geneva and they have to drive an hour or so to Waldameer. I really do miss the old Sea World part because our elementary school used to make it a tradition that the 5th graders would go at the end of the school year. That was probably the most memorable moment for me back then.

 

Why couldn't Busch have bought the park back?

[FeelTheFORCE]

For instance, Cedar point is a 3-hour 100$+ Trip,

 

How does it take you that long from northeast Ohio? It takes me exactly 3 from Pittsburgh, 2:40-ish from Grove City/Slippery Rock, PA, and my roommate is from Erie and has gotten there in 2:30-ish.

 

 

On a side note, does anyone know how the water park did this year? I know there were rumors floating around that this year was "make it or break it" for that park.

[John Peck]

I was at GL's Wildwater Kingdom on Sunday, and there were signs posted to "Buy Your 2011 Pass". When the ride side was still open those last few weeks in 2007, there was no announcement at all.

 

I'm still not convinced they bought the park to close it. They put too much money into the park (besides the waterpark) to throw in the towel that soon. I believe if they never bought the Paramount Parks, They would have gotten GL to work.

[robbalvey]

I'm still not convinced they bought the park to close it.

Trust me on this one.

[Philrad71]

How does it take you that long from northeast Ohio? It takes me exactly 3 from Pittsburgh, 2:40-ish from Grove City/Slippery Rock, PA, and my roommate is from Erie and has gotten there in 2:30-ish.

 

Hehe - I was thinking the same thing when I read that comment. 3+ hours and $100+ to get to CP when he is a stone's throw from Geauga Lake? It is about a 3.5 hour trip for me (about 70 miles South of Buffalo) to CP. Sounds to me like he was just trying to justify a stronger case in which to hate on CP...or, he really needs to buy a Garmin!

 

As far as the water park goes, I'm not sure how that has been doing since the closing of the amusement park. I had thought once of going during the heat of this summer, but for what they offered, I figured the lines would be outlandishly long and the place would have been packed on a weekend.

 

I would have no problem if CF were to close it and move the slides down the road to Soak City - they could use a Tornado and perhaps another (more modern) slide complex. And of course, Big Dipper on the beach would be nice too!

[Synshine]

 

I really did like GL (or I should say SFWOA), but man, what a smart thing to do for CF to wipe out any potential competition.

 

--Robb

 

 

Rather brutal actually. Were they really that afraid of serious competition?

[Devious]

For instance, Cedar point is a 3-hour 100$+ Trip,

 

How does it take you that long from northeast Ohio? It takes me exactly 3 from Pittsburgh, 2:40-ish from Grove City/Slippery Rock, PA, and my roommate is from Erie and has gotten there in 2:30-ish.

 

 

On a side note, does anyone know how the water park did this year? I know there were rumors floating around that this year was "make it or break it" for that park.

 

3 hours total, i should have stated, my mistake - i was typing fast

 

Essentially, my point is that i'd waste the same amount of travel time, but pay almost 3 times as much overall

 

Its not uncommon for me to day-trip to kennywood, waste the whole day in the park and get upwards of 7 rides on every major rollercoaster, or do the same for CP, spend twice as much, and be lucky to get on half the major coasters once (especially if i want to ride maverick or Millenium more than once) not to mention the food being twice as expensive (On par with six flags, but worse in quality at a majority of the eateries) and the overall lack of family draw

[FeelTheFORCE]

I go to Cedar Point every year, sometimes multiple times per year, and NEVER have trouble riding everything, you just have to use common sense on when to go (and that applies to any park, not just Cedar Point). Obviously don't go on a Saturday in the middle of July.

 

The last time I checked, Kennywood's prices were on par with most parks. Tickets are $30+ unless bought from Giant Eagle, and Cedar Point's are in the upper $30s with a coupon (that comes in the FREE Getaway Guide ANYONE can request). I'm more than happy paying ONLY an extra $10-$15 for 10 more coasters and too many more rides to count. Regarding food, I paid about the same (I think it was even more) for the same general meal at Kennywood, as I did at Cedar Point this summer.

 

Cedar Point's food quality is self-explanatory. They have a Subway, Chik-Fil-A, Panda Express, Johnny Rocket's, Coasters, etc. How could you even have high expectations for any of those places to begin with to be "disappointed by the quality?" Most of them are places found everywhere, so you should already know what you like and don't like. Even with that said, I think Cedar Point's restaurant selection is the one of the (if not THE) best out of all Cedar Fair parks I have been to.

 

Lastly, you'll drive 4 hours round trip to Kennywood in a heartbeat (which will cost you more as far as gas and tolls are concerned), but are complaining about the cost of 3 hours round trip to Cedar Point?

 

 

-FeelThe "Doesn't make sense to me." FORCE

Edited September 8, 2010 by FeelTheFORCE

[ajc47]

 

I really did like GL (or I should say SFWOA), but man, what a smart thing to do for CF to wipe out any potential competition.

 

--Robb

 

 

Rather brutal actually. Were they really that afraid of serious competition?

 

Yes.

[Skycoastin Steve]

^^^It's Cedar Point, the New York Yankees of the theme park world. People are going to get their panties in a bunch and blow everything about it out of proportion, regardless if it makes sense or not. By the same token, others are going to fanatically build it up to more than what it is, regardless if it makes sense or not. Just take it with a grain of salt.

 

In fact, just take most fanatical statements about any theme parks in general with a grain of salt. There's no perfect park, and there's no park that's just SO bad that it deserves to be razed to the ground by a nuclear bomb (not even SFA).

[robbalvey]

 

I really did like GL (or I should say SFWOA), but man, what a smart thing to do for CF to wipe out any potential competition.

 

--Robb

 

 

Rather brutal actually. Were they really that afraid of serious competition?

Absoultely! Make no mistake about it. One of Six Flags' goals for that property was to re-direct paying customers away from Cedar Point.

 

That last year SFWOA was in operation they were very close to having a true "family destination" in Ohio. The marine park was great (I mean, it was groomed as a Busch Park!), the water park had some great attractions to it, and to be honest, the rides park was probably the weakest of the three parks in the package...but it was certainly getting there. If they had a hotel attached to the property, like Darien Lake does, they probably could have easily sold 2-day packages from families coming in from Pittsburgh or even Detriot. But that would have taken time and I don't think Six Flags was in a position to wait it out.

 

SFWOA actually had a lot more for "Families" to do together than Cedar Point did (and really still even does today.) Had Cedar Fair let that continue, Six Flags may have very well been real completion for Cedar Point.

 

Seriously, it was headed to be one of the nicer theme park/resort complexes in the country. And Cedar Fair wasn't about to let Six Flags have any part of that!

 

2003 - 2004 seemed to be a pivitol time for Six Flags as they were really, REALLY in debt now, and properies like SFWOA where they had sunk HUGE amount of dollars had not turned into instant successes, and I think Cedar Fair really took advantage of that and acted on an amazing opprotunity to buy the property with the sole purpose of eventually shutting it down...or at least neutering it so that it doesn't take business away from Cedar Point. I would have done the exact same thing in their position.

 

I personally think that Six Flags' biggest mistake with the property is not having longer term expecations with it. I get the feeling they expected INSTANT success and people to be flocking to the park in huge numbers as soon as they opened for the season.

 

But the reality was that most people didn't even realize that they had now bought Sea World and that it was part of the park! I can remember being at the park in 2003 and hearing more than one person talking about "Oh, that's part of Sea World over there..." or "Maybe we'll do Sea World next time we visit..."

 

It was like they gave it one season and then just surrendered to Cedar Fair.

 

Not even Universal's Islands of Adventure was slam packed with people the first year! Whenever there is a re-branding, or a changing of what people have been used to for YEARS (Geuaga Lake being seperate admission from Sea World) it takes time for all those changes to sink in. It doesn't happen over night. And I think this is where Six Flags messed up. They did not correctly manage expectations and seemed like they wanted to quickly get out of that property as quickly as they got into it.

 

The more I think about it, I'd actually put slightly more blame on Six Flags for the property's demise. It should have been very obvious to everyone (it certainly was to me) what Cedar Fair was going to do with that property.

 

The day the sale happened I remember posting "I give it 5 years...tops...and it will be closed and all the rides will be split up to other properties." And everyone gave me crap about that. Maybe it's because I've spent some time in this industry working with the "business side" of thing, or maybe it was just a lot of people wanting and hoping so badly that their little hometown park would be saved, I dunno.... But it was REAL clear to me what Cedar Fair was doing. And I have to give them a ton of credit for doing it.

 

As horrible as it may be to some people, it was simply the smartest thing Cedar Fair could have done. If Hard Rock Park was one of the biggest fails of the past decade, I think Geauga Lake's closure was the polar opposite of that. At least from the business perspective.

 

--Robb

Edited September 8, 2010 by robbalvey

[Devious]

I go to Cedar Point every year, sometimes multiple times per year, and NEVER have trouble riding everything, you just have to use common sense on when to go (and that applies to any park, not just Cedar Point). Obviously don't go on a Saturday in the middle of July.

 

The last time I checked, Kennywood's prices were on par with most parks. Tickets are $30+ unless bought from Giant Eagle, and Cedar Point's are in the upper $30s with a coupon (that comes in the FREE Getaway Guide ANYONE can request). I'm more than happy paying ONLY an extra $10-$15 for 10 more coasters and too many more rides to count. Regarding food, I paid about the same (I think it was even more) for the same general meal at Kennywood, as I did at Cedar Point this summer.

 

Cedar Point's food quality is self-explanatory. They have a Subway, Chik-Fil-A, Panda Express, Johnny Rocket's, Coasters, etc. How could you even have high expectations for any of those places to begin with to be "disappointed by the quality?" Most of them are places found everywhere, so you should already know what you like and don't like. Even with that said, I think Cedar Point's restaurant selection is the one of the (if not THE) best out of all Cedar Fair parks I have been to.

 

Lastly, you'll drive 4 hours round trip to Kennywood in a heartbeat (which will cost you more as far as gas and tolls are concerned), but are complaining about the cost of 3 hours round trip to Cedar Point?

 

 

-FeelThe "Doesn't make sense to me." FORCE

 

80x2 = 160 minutes, or 2h:40m, Cost breakdown

 

Season pass = 90$

Total trip cost (Gas, tolls) = 27$ round trip

Parking = 0$

Eating twice in-park = 12$

Drinks in park = 8-10$ total

 

Not counting my season pass cost, thats 49$ to spend the entire day there

 

Cedar point

 

30-46$ admission (Or what? 200+ for a season pass to CF, of which, only 1 park is day trip possible (CP))

Total trip cost (G/T) = 27$ or so, depending on route

Parking = 10$ (Last time i was there.)

Eating twice in the park = 16-20$ or more, depending

Drinks in park = upwards of 15$

 

Still not feeling it. and even on a weekday unless i want to chain ride gemini, Disaster transport, blue streak, wildcat, and mantis i'm likely to wait in several hour+ lines (Maverick, Millie, Magnum on occasion, Top Fail, Raptor, Twister)

 

Granted now that school is back in, that's a non-issue, But lets not forget CF Ride closing policies, i've ridden phantom in pouring downpours, same for sky rocket, Good luck with that at CP unless you're already on the ride before it hits

[robbalvey]

^ It really just sounds like you don't like Cedar Point. Which is fine. Simply don't go. I don't think anyone has to keep justifying to the readers of this thread why they choose one park over the other. (and neither park being Geuaga Lake, which is the topic of this thread.) Just simply don't go to that park if you don't like it. 'Nuff said.

 

--Robb

[ajc47]

I don't really like CP that much either, for the exact same reasons already stated by Devious. My brother has stopped asking me if I want to go to CP, because he knows I'm just going to say no.

[Geauga Dog]

Cedar Point's food quality is self-explanatory. They have a Subway, Chik-Fil-A, Panda Express, Johnny Rocket's, Coasters, etc. How could you even have high expectations for any of those places to begin with to be "disappointed by the quality?" Most of them are places found everywhere, so you should already know what you like and don't like. Even with that said, I think Cedar Point's restaurant selection is the one of the (if not THE) best out of all Cedar Fair parks I have been to.

 

What you just listed are a bunch of national chains that CF has installed in the park, well minus Coasters but since you can find one in just about all of the original pre-Paramount Parks it could be considered one, but what about the regular food stands? Their fries used to be good, near Potato Patch quality and a good portion for the price. Now you pay more for less product and less quality. Anyway...

 

You also have to take into account that Cedar Fair didn't exactly market the park all that well from 2004 through 2006. Having the slogan "The Fun Is Back" in '04 when in fact it had never left in the first place was down right awful. Of course the timing was bad, having just acquired the park right as the season was about to start in a couple of months didn't help the situation.

 

When Wildwater Kingdom was new in 2005 there was no major marketing for the then new water park. 2006's "What A Surprise" highlighting a children's birthday party where the kid opens the present and they are transplanted to Geauga Lake (using footage from other parks) was very lackluster. These first few years you saw very few commericals for GL on TV.

 

Then finally in 2007 they did a great commercial for the park, showing a lot of actual park footage, and having it aired much more frequently on TV actually worked. Having been there every weekend during that season there was a very noticeable increase of guests in the park, despite what many people wrote about in TR's. The park's busiest days were always towards the end of the week.

[robbalvey]

I don't really like CP that much either, for the exact same reasons already stated by Devious. My brother has stopped asking me if I want to go to CP, because he knows I'm just going to say no.

That's great. Can we keep the CP discussion to the CP thread and not this one? Thank you.

 

--Robb

[FeelTheFORCE]

^^ I meant the fast food places that are found everywhere outside parks also. For example, don't say a certain park's food is bad when you're talking about a Subway, instead say the Subway chain's food is bad.

 

Anyway, I've made my points, anything else I would just be repeating myself. As Robb said, I'm done discussing Cedar Point in this thread, unless it somehow relates to GL.

Edited September 9, 2010 by FeelTheFORCE

[Capitalize]

I only got one ride on BIg Dipper; and that was pretty lucky. I made my only visit to GL during what ended up being their last season and at first it didn't look like it would open for the day. Thankfully just before we were about to leave the park in the late afternoon to head to Cedar Point it opened and we got a single front seat ride. I found it to be a very fun ride; it was smooth and gave some really good floater airtime. It was actually my favorite ride of the day (Yes, better than Dominator even). So I guess for that reason I'd rather see the ride saved than not. But that probably says more about the lack of top notch wooden coasters I've been than the actual quality of the ride.

 

I find it interesting how Cedar Point has over the past decade or so gone from being an icon of the amusement park world, a mecca for coaster enthusiasts, to being regarded in such a low light. I think its similar to a band getting too much airtime on the radio/TV, so people with "non-stream tastes" disregard it by default as being too commercial or selling out... I personally still love to visit Cedar Point, its not my favorite park in the world but they have a great coaster collection and I never run out of things to do while there.