Rye Playland Discussion Thread

[jamesdillaman]

The Ops running the ride should check all the seatbelts etc before pressing the "start" button, the women killed worked at the park should of known better. I don't feel sorry for people who don't follow the rules on rides.

 

There should not be any legal action taken, it's the riders fault not the parks.

 

It's definitely the ride operator's fault. And their could be legal action against the ride op or the park, depending on the laws and the facts of the case.

 

-James Dillaman

[jedimaster1227]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Questionable-Future-for-Rye-Playland-99811849.html

 

Ask almost any long time Westchester County resident about Rye Playland and they'll come up with a favorite childhood memory to tell you about. "Real good memories," Said Antony Cruz of Port Chester. "My mom and dad used to drop me off I used to come here with my friends and enjoy life." Paul Redd of Sleepy Hollow also looked back with fondness of the historic, decades old amusement park. "I pretty much grew up here," said Redd. "I worked here, I played here, I slept on the beach. It's really a part of my youth." That's why news that there may be a plan to close it down has hit some park goers hard.

 

Westchester County Executive Rob Astorino is looking for ways to better use the public park land -- and he points to decades of tax payer waste.

Rye Playland is the only amusement park in the nation that is owned and operated by the government. Playland hasn't earned a profit in at least a generation. The park costs between 3 and 6 million dollars a year to operate. Astorino says it makes more fiscal sense to shut it down. "Seventy percent of the park patrons are non county residents," Astorino said. "So in effect you county people paying to subsidize a park that county residents don't attend, but non residents do."

 

There's no clear plan for what will go in it's place. Waterfront condos are out of the question because it is public parkland, but Astorino is soliciting ideas. "It's a blank slate right now as far as I'm concerned," said Astorino. "Let's go out to the market place, see what ideas come back, what suggestions come back. Who would like to run it, for what price... what they'd like to put there."

 

But 11-year-old James Simone from Larchmont doesn't care how much it costs to keep the park going. "I really don't want it to close because its really the only amusement park that I can go to," he said. His mother, Marcella, agrees: "We need to keep it. We have to do what ever we could to keep it."

 

If the park does close down it won't be overnight. Astorino estimates they'll need a year-and-a-half to decide on a plan. Depending on what they chose, the Westchester County Board and the State Legislature will need to give their approval.

Edited March 23, 2011 by larrygator

[cal1br3tto]

Honestly, this makes me sad. However, I'm sure it isn't the greatest park around, and I totally understand the reasoning behind closing it. It's just disappointing because it's a park I would definitely consider visiting due to my affection for classic parks and coasters.

[coaster-crazy]

Dang... Let's hope they find some way to keep it operating for some time.. or atleast have a few rides or the coaster operating on the side.

[thrillrider]

All parks cost money to run. My city picnic park cost's the city money to keep it up and running. So should they just close it down and build condos because it's not making them money?

 

Not only that, but it was mentioned that most of the people that visit the park are from out of town. That would mean a lot of revenue loss for local businesses and a reduction in tax money as well.

[ginzo]

I'd be bummed to see this place go. It was a lot less ghetto than I had anticipated. Even a little bit charming.

[imbordisux]

Really sad to hear this - all of their flat rides were cranked to 11.

[ParkTrips]

All parks cost money to run. My city picnic park cost's the city money to keep it up and running. So should they just close it down and build condos because it's not making them money?

Well, for one, they said that condos are "out of the question", but more importantly, since government revenue streams have likely declined, would you rather them save $3-6MM by cutting education/health/police/etc funds, or an amusement park?

[thrillrider]

In the same argument, you have to look at tax money that will be lost, the local jobs that will be lost, local businesses that will be impacted,the out of state visitors the park brings in....and on and on.

 

So the 2-3 million that it is costing them to run the park, is nothing compared to what they could lose. I could totaly see if it was costing them more than this to keep the park going, but this is a small amout compared to if the park did not exsist for the reasons I gave.

 

I am not sure how they are losing money on the park, because all reports from the park that I have seen, the place is packed.

 

Say they did close the park. They will still have to maintain the property, and that would not be much less than what they are paying now. With the market being what it is today, I think they would have a hard time selling anything right now.

Edited August 4, 2010 by thrillrider

[Wood Dragon 1988]

Dislike...

 

I'd be bummed to see this place go. It was a lot less ghetto than I had anticipated. Even a little bit charming.

 

 

Agree with both of those statements. When I went to Rye i got there a few hours early and wondered around the neighborhood and lake area a bit. It was really an interesting place...it reminded me of those local neighborhood traditional parks I've heard about on shows and books....there are few and far between these days. And if the Dragon Coaster ever got better trains it could be really good!

[ParkTrips]

In the same argument, you have to look at tax money that will be lost, the local jobs that will be lost, local businesses that will be impacted,the out of state visitors the park brings in....and on and on.

Just because visitors are "out of state" doesn't mean they book hotels in the area, especially when the next county over is "out of state". 77% of visitors come from within 25 miles of the park (link, page 11), so the overwhelming majority of patrons are simply locals who already spend money in the area - also note that per capita spending is rather low, hence them losing money despite "all reports from the park that I have seen, the place is packed"

 

So the 2-3 million that it is costing them to run the park, is nothing compared to what they could lose. I could totaly see if it was costing them more than this to keep the park going, but this is a small amout compared to if the park did not exsist for the reasons I gave.

The article said 3-6 million, go with that unless you can prove it was wrong.

 

I think they would have a hard time selling anything right now.

It's actually a great time to buy, since the values are so deflated. If you've got the cash, buy. Speculators love these down times

[thrillrider]

None the less, you still have 33% more people going to that area, that wouldn't be there if the park did not exsist. Those people spend money at gas stations, hotels, restaurants...ect..ect.

I kind of question the 77% number they came up with. Where and how did they study this?

 

Even local people that live 25 miles from the park will stop and eat at a restaurant after they leave the park.

 

Like I said, you also have to look at the local jobs that will be lost, and the tax money that would be gone as well. Local businesses will be hurt. Not just the jobs at the park that will be lost, but all the people in the surrounding area that will be impacted.That row of restaurants and gas stations and hotels, will have to let people go. And when people are out of work, they do not pay taxes...simple as that.

 

I am not arguing about it, just some concerns about this.

[Philrad71]

Rye Playland is the only amusement park in the nation that is owned and operated by the government.

 

Slightly false statement - my hometown park (Midway) is also a state-owned/operated park. I was there this year and it definitely looked like it was being run by the same dysfunctional idiots that are currently running the show in Albany!!

[Erik Johnson]

This would make me really sad as this park really does have some great classic rides such a the Derby Racer and an insanely run Whip.

[Band-Aid]

If this place does end up closing, I hope it's after the 2011 season (I was planning on going there summer 2011)

[Carnage]

Rye was in my rough plan for after the Indimidatour trip. With this news I'll have to make sure I make it there.

[larrygator]

Something doesn't add up.

 

$6,000,000 to run the park. 300,000 people spending $20 each on tickets/wristbands covers $6,000,000. You can't tell me that place doesn't pull in 300,000 a year. The park has 100 operating days, that 3,000 people a day.

 

Parking is $7 on weekends, $5 on weekends. 500 cars a day = about $250,000 a year.

The food vendors have to be paying rent for their booths, also.

 

If it really costs only $6,000,000 a year to run, I don't see how they don't at least break even.

 

When Clementon Park was sold a couple of years ago, financial statements showed them with $1,500,000 in annual revenue.

[ginzo]

^Yeah, something does seem strange. They own the land, don't have to pay property tax, and aren't exactly spending a lot on new rides.

[thrillrider]

Astorio is a run of the mill Politician. He has accomplished nothing in his turn and is looking for an easy out to prove he can save same money. He has been targeting the park for a long time. He's claiming the park hasn't made a profit in a generation, yet it made 16 million in 2004 according to it's 260 page master plan. The master plan also said that 55% of the park attendance was the local County, 10% Groups, 28% neighboring counties and 7% destination guests.

 

If they have dropped form 55% to 30% what is the managment and county officials doing to scare them away in the last 6 years?

[monsterfan99]

Something doesn't add up.

 

$6,000,000 to run the park. 300,000 people spending $20 each on tickets/wristbands covers $6,000,000. You can't tell me that place doesn't pull in 300,000 a year. The park has 100 operating days, that 3,000 people a day.

 

Parking is $7 on weekends, $5 on weekends. 500 cars a day = about $250,000 a year.

The food vendors have to be paying rent for their booths, also.

 

If it really costs only $6,000,000 a year to run, I don't see how they don't at least break even.

 

When Clementon Park was sold a couple of years ago, financial statements showed them with $1,500,000 in annual revenue.

With it being government ran, I'm am betting some of the vendors are getting some amazing contracts costing the park millions.

[808Freq]

Haha, a theme park run by the government that is failing. That's fitting..

 

Something doesn't add up.

 

$6,000,000 to run the park. 300,000 people spending $20 each on tickets/wristbands covers $6,000,000. You can't tell me that place doesn't pull in 300,000 a year. The park has 100 operating days, that 3,000 people a day.

 

Parking is $7 on weekends, $5 on weekends. 500 cars a day = about $250,000 a year.

The food vendors have to be paying rent for their booths, also.

 

If it really costs only $6,000,000 a year to run, I don't see how they don't at least break even.

 

When Clementon Park was sold a couple of years ago, financial statements showed them with $1,500,000 in annual revenue.

 

I know that it's a government run facility, but I'm sure they needed insurance.. to pay employees, advertise, etc, etc.. I could see those expenses running long.. And you are talking about the government trying to budget money. It's a total oxymoron..

[ParkTrips]

Something doesn't add up.

 

$6,000,000 to run the park. 300,000 people spending $20 each on tickets/wristbands covers $6,000,000. You can't tell me that place doesn't pull in 300,000 a year.

I think he's saying that the $3-6 million is the loss the county is eating. The only other article I could find on the possibility of Playland shutting down (here) mentions an operating budget of $16 million.

 

The "master plan" I linked to earlier had this to say:

Attendance through the 1990s increased from about 850,000 to one million in 1999. In 2004, those numbers declined to 920,000 in part as a result of inclement weather and a soft economy, but underlying factors included lack of reinvestment in attraction content and insufficient resources to mount a proper marketing program. Attendance generated $16.5 million in annual revenues in 2003 with net revenues of about $10.5 million. The remainder being paid to ride owners and concessionaires, an arrangement that leaves Playland without resources for the park.

Sounds like the park was barely breaking even at those attendance figures, so I could see a big drop in attendance running the park in the red. Seems to me like the problem is the contractors are getting paid while the county is not (as monsterfan alluded to)

 

 

 

None the less, you still have 33% more people going to that area, that wouldn't be there if the park did not exsist. Those people spend money at gas stations, hotels, restaurants...ect..ect.

MAYBE (23%, btw) - you could easily day-trip the park from 30 miles away, but you wouldn't fall under the 77% of 'locals'. That could include taking a train from the city: that IS how the park got its start, right? You also have to remember that the park is very close to Connecticut, so visitors from there could easily buy any gas and or pre/post-park meals in another state.

 

But, out of curiousity, say all 70% of park patrons who come from outside the county (as stated by the county exec) -- they spend $20 on admission, $20 inside the park, and another $20 outside the park (but still within the county). A nice round attendance number to use would be 750k. 525k out of county guests * $60 each = $31.5 million generated. Tax that at 7% and you've got a little over $2 million in tax revenue that could be lost. If they are losing between $3-6 million by keeping the park open (which is my translation of the article), they are still looking at a "gain" of $1-4 million even after the loss in tax revenues

 

Sure, there is the loss of jobs with the park, but most of them are seasonal kids who could likely find other employment. The 100 or so (at max) full time employees would be a loss in both spending power and local income taxes, but that's assuming they couldn't find other work (not to mention, in a county of one million residents, 100 jobs is barely a splash)

 

I kind of question the 77% number they came up with. Where and how did they study this?

I really don't see why it's a surprise - its a local park, not a big draw like a Disneyland or Sea World, and there are a ton of people who live within 25 miles of the park (which would run into the northern parts of New York City)

 

Even local people that live 25 miles from the park will stop and eat at a restaurant after they leave the park.

Maybe, but who's to say they wouldn't have eaten out either way? Or that they wouldn't eat when they got back home, or in Connecticut or NYC?

 

 

 

In the end, I think public opinion of the decisions of elected officials will prevent the park from closing (see the poll in the original article Adam posted). Guess it will depend on how the constituency feels. Like Larry, I see no reason this place can't at least break even. I think the county is just looking for ways to cut losses, and if its losing money now, then it makes sense from that perspective at this time. A net gain of $1-4 million works out to 20-80 teacher/firefighter/police/etc jobs that might not need to be cut (@50k/year)

[thrillrider]

Astorio is a run of the mill Politician. He has accomplished nothing in his turn and is looking for an easy out to prove he can save same money. He has been targeting the park for a long time. He's claiming the park hasn't made a profit in a generation, yet it made 16 million in 2004 according to it's 260 page master plan. The master plan also said that 55% of the park attendance was the local County, 10% Groups, 28% neighboring counties and 7% destination guests.

 

If they have dropped form 55% to 30% what is the managment and county officials doing to scare them away in the last 6 years?

[ParkTrips]

revenues =/= profits

[Solid Gold]

Someone disprove my math here, but as long as our figures are accurate and 16 mil is the annual expense:

 

900,000 people x $30(unlimited rides, as well as a good standard figure)=27,000,000

 

Out of that 900,000, at least 33 percent are getting discounts for being in-county, or twilight admission, or Kiddie admission only, or any number of season pass options. But then you add some for parking, games, food, merchandise (you know, where parks actually make money).

 

There's a LOT of unaccountables in that basic figure, but at 16 mil expenses the park should break even at about $18 per guest, and able to afford ample new rides for 4 more dollars (I.E, I'm fully confident we don't know the real story)

 

1. We don't have enough info for my analysis to matter

2. We don't even know if the figures we have are credible.

 

But, I think it's pretty clear that if our numbers are good the potential is there for this park to hold its own.