Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread

[jmfoxfire]

[Goooose]

I thought it would be lower too! I didn't realize the zero g stall would get that much height! Look how beautiful it is standing there on its own!

[Goooose]

Courtesy of me, via iphone 5s + snapseed. It looks so big and gorgeous in real life. While it is quite compact, it really is not a compact coaster. The elements are each massive and lobbing and the ride extends along the entire back side of the park. You have to see it to understand!

Edited May 9, 2014 by Goooose

[coasterfansince1999]

On the park website, they stated that they're now charging an admission fee for getting into Hurricane Harbor for non-Season Pass holders. It's still free for Season Pass holders. Not a fan of this

[Woodie Warrior]

On the park website, they stated that they're now charging an admission fee for getting into Hurricane Harbor for non-Season Pass holders. It's still free for Season Pass holders. Not a fan of this

This info was posted in this thread months ago.

[coasterfansince1999]

My bad didn't get a chance to read the earlier pages.

[anewman35]

My bad didn't get a chance to read the earlier pages.

 

And the fee is only $5, which is still really cheap for a whole water park (especially compared to how much everything else in the park costs).

[coasterfansince1999]

My bad didn't get a chance to read the earlier pages.

 

And the fee is only $5, which is still really cheap for a whole water park (especially compared to how much everything else in the park costs).

 

 

That's a valid point. Although it just seems like a awkward concept to me.

Well at least it's still free to the Season Pass holders.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Thanks for that photo, Goliath looks amazing!

 

Did Six Flags announce whether Goliath will have seat belts?

[willthegolfer]

The park hasn't announced, but you can see seat belts in the picture of the orange train cars.

[coasterfansince1999]

Thanks for that photo, Goliath looks amazing!

 

Did Six Flags announce whether Goliath will have seat belts?

 

I think a few pages back, someone posted a picture of the trains that arrived at the park and there seemed to be a black-ish thing going across the seat. I can't really tell if that's a belt or just a part of the train or whatever.

 

Seatbelts or not, I don't really think that the ride experience will be all that different. It will still kick A$$.

[coasterfreak101]

See what's missing? There is no support system built into the track itself. The rails are running free, save for a few bars attaching it to the supports that are off to the side. Its as if a steel coaster like B&M wasn't just missing supports, but missing the square box as well and was just two stainless steel rails. There are far fewer track ties keeping the rails together. Over the course of an inversion that long, several hundred feet, there are only about 12 track ties. The gap between the track ties appears to be the length of a train car or even a bit longer. B&M's pass a track tie every 2 feet or so and Intamin's, well, are they ever not?

 

And as I mentioned earlier, there are only two visible steel beams extending off of the arch at the moment, whereas in the concept art, there are 5 or 6. If those are not installed later on, and since the structure is turning out different than the latest concept art already and it would be so much easier to have installed it while the rest of the arch was being built on the ground, it is likely that the zero g stall will be even more stripped and naked than the concept art posted here!

 

I get the concept, but if the element works as the name 0-G Stall entails, then there are no additional external forces acting on those beams other than the downward pull from the track itself. Those beams, unlike the triangle-spine on an Intamin or the box-spine on a B&M, shouldn't be responsible for carrying huge loads from trains passing over (or under) them, but instead just the track's weight while cars glide by, with few exceptions (slower trains in the morning might pull down some, full trains on summer days might push up a bit). Again, it's not some superior track design, just some ace coaster design as a whole. That's what these guys need commending for.

[Goooose]

See what's missing? There is no support system built into the track itself. The rails are running free, save for a few bars attaching it to the supports that are off to the side. Its as if a steel coaster like B&M wasn't just missing supports, but missing the square box as well and was just two stainless steel rails. There are far fewer track ties keeping the rails together. Over the course of an inversion that long, several hundred feet, there are only about 12 track ties. The gap between the track ties appears to be the length of a train car or even a bit longer. B&M's pass a track tie every 2 feet or so and Intamin's, well, are they ever not?

 

And as I mentioned earlier, there are only two visible steel beams extending off of the arch at the moment, whereas in the concept art, there are 5 or 6. If those are not installed later on, and since the structure is turning out different than the latest concept art already and it would be so much easier to have installed it while the rest of the arch was being built on the ground, it is likely that the zero g stall will be even more stripped and naked than the concept art posted here!

 

I get the concept, but if the element works as the name 0-G Stall entails, then there are no additional external forces acting on those beams other than the downward pull from the track itself. Those beams, unlike the triangle-spine on an Intamin or the box-spine on a B&M, shouldn't be responsible for carrying huge loads from trains passing over (or under) them, but instead just the track's weight while cars glide by, with few exceptions (slower trains in the morning might pull down some, full trains on summer days might push up a bit). Again, it's not some superior track design, just some ace coaster design as a whole. That's what these guys need commending for.

 

You seem unimpressed still. I don't disagree with anything you said, except that it isn't superior track design. The track design is maybe only possible because of the coaster design. But they've deliberately exaggerated the element (coaster design) by manipulating the track design to expose it more and suspend it off of the lift structure. They could have left it in a sea of wood and they didn't. So even if you don't think it is superior, you have to agree that it is deliberate. Does the box, track ties, and supports suddenly fade out at the top of every B&M hyper coaster's zero-g floater hills?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Goooose

[coasterfreak101]

^No, but it could, and it would be okay. I'm not saying that the appearance isn't far superior - it's insane, and that's the best compliment I could give this thing. I'm going to see it in person in a few weeks and it's going to shock me, guaranteed. B&M, like you mentioned, has always stayed consistent with their spine thickness (other than forceful troughs, like the pretzel loops on the flyers), probably for ease of manufacturing because maybe the monetary difference isn't worth the additional time it would take to program the machines (or buy new ones). It would, however, be completely structurally feasible that the track spine on their crests could be thinned out if the cost-benefit was substantial.

 

My point is simply that, while I'm impressed beyond anything by RMC's ability to build a wooden coaster (mind you, it's totally steel for this portion) that looks like this, and by the creativity they've proven themselves to have in just three years since NTAG, this isn't some miracle track design that's allowing it to happen. It's just really, really good planning.

[JonnyRCT3]

This thing looks impressive.

 

However, I don't find the zero-g stall support design all that impressive.

[Goooose]

I appreciate the structural design as well as the coaster design. I commend them for both, the total package.

 

First: There is nobody reading this forum right now who has ever ridden a coaster with a zero g stall. There is no coaster on earth with a zero g float, but whose train rides the inside of the float, not the outside. For 3+ or more seconds. It is arguably the most significant element of this coaster. If it were easier to explain to the general public, then "world's first zero g stall" would be on the advertisements, not "tallest fastest and steepest wooden roller coaster." I appreciate that, I just also appreciate how the structure has been designed more than you.

 

Secondly: The structure holding it up is the support structure for the lift. I'm having a hard time thinking of any other coaster on earth with which this is the case. In which an element is attached to the lift hill, and the lift hill wouldn't work without the attached element's structure. There are two elements, the lift and the zero g stall, and their shared structure is essential to BOTH. THAT is design worth appreciating! I am not going to just overlook that. Alan could have spent 10 years sitting at home racking up thousands of hours on No Limits, becoming the industry's leading coaster layout designer, for all I know. But the team who designed the lift structure didn't have 10,000 hours to do so. It is genius. It is fully integral into the design of the ride and I can't separate the two.

 

We are all geeking out about this ride, just about a variety of things, and to varying degrees.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Goooose

[JonnyRCT3]

Secondly: The structure holding it up is the support structure for the lift. I'm having a hard time thinking of any other coaster on earth with which this is the case. In which an element is attached to the lift hill, There are two elements, the lift and the zero g stall, and their shared structure is essential to BOTH elements.

 

 

Goliath's track for the zero-g float is similar to this (rather weak and exposed). Goliath has the added plus of having an arch design.

 

I DO find this element itself impressive, and the fact that it is attached to the lift is innovative. I just don't find the structural design behind it impressive.

[Goooose]

Secondly: The structure holding it up is the support structure for the lift. I'm having a hard time thinking of any other coaster on earth with which this is the case. In which an element is attached to the lift hill, There are two elements, the lift and the zero g stall, and their shared structure is essential to BOTH elements.

 

 

Goliath's track for the zero-g float is similar to this (rather weak and exposed). Goliath has the added plus of having an arch design.

 

I DO find this element itself impressive, and the fact that it is attached to the lift is innovative. I just don't find the structural design behind it impressive.

 

From an aesthetic standpoint, or engineering standpoint? I am not an engineer, but an urban planning/architectural art historian. So aesthetically and creatively, I am shocked. First by its suspension of the side of the structure, as stated, but secondly by the rugged look of the lift. It has a turn-of-the-century railroad bridge look to it that adds character. But that's a matter of opinion and perhaps from an engineering perspective, it doesn't stand out as much?

[JonnyRCT3]

^Honestly, it is just an extended version of this.

http://coaster-net.com/pictures/silver-dollar-city/outlaw-run-wlPT.jpg

[Goooose]

Hmm except that it isn't. I've never ridden an outerbank turn but I imagine that it pulls some positives on the ascent, whips you over and exposes you to the outside of the turn, where you pull a quick negative G, before twisting you back inward to catch the positives of the inside of the turn during the descent. Maybe its a zero G element, but I have always imagined that outerbanks are like bunny hills on a turn-where your banking creates air from the laterals. An outerbank turn is much more chaotic with faster pacing in the G and directional changes. The zero g stall will leave riders upside down, uninterrupted, for 3 seconds. They wont feel like they're "falling out of the train," pressing against their lapbars by any means but the zero g experienced as you travel through it, if effective, will leave people with the unsettling weightless feeling in their stomachs. Add that to the fear/disorientation thatt people get when upside down, and you've got yourself a zero g stall. The entrance and exits both contain half a heartline roll and some hard positives, I'll give you that.

 

But I think the zero G stall has more in common with the lateral float than the outerbank. The track's elevation mimics that of a zero g float hill. The intended force upon riders is weightlessness/zero g. But they are just being achieved at different angles. On a lateral float, the train follows the zero g hill while riders are turned 90 degrees on their side. On Goliath, the train will follow a zero g hill shape, and riders will experience weightlessness, except at 180 degrees.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Goooose

[coasterfreak101]

From an aesthetic standpoint, or engineering standpoint? I am not an engineer, but an urban planning/architectural art historian. So aesthetically and creatively, I am shocked. First by its suspension of the side of the structure, as stated, but secondly by the rugged look of the lift. It has a turn-of-the-century railroad bridge look to it that adds character. But that's a matter of opinion and perhaps from an engineering perspective, it doesn't stand out as much?

 

I wouldn't say that it doesn't stand out - I'm a structural engineer, and though parts of it have been done before on coasters (I305, namely), I do think that cantilevering a portion of the design is pretty unique and, coupled with the track being inverted, should really be a stand-out piece to every person walking through the park. Is it structurally innovative? No, not really. Forces dictate design, and zero force here means that design can be very minimal - which, and I would imagine as a person who clearly appreciates (and works with) architecture you know, is one of the most visually striking things you can do with a structure. It's not something people expect, and it should prove to be pretty unnerving to most people riding.

[GayCoasterGuy]

And the fee is only $5, which is still really cheap for a whole water park (especially compared to how much everything else in the park costs).

 

Haha!

 

nerd1: "Do you want to go for a pop or go to the waterpark?"

nerd2: "Let's do the waterpark. It's cheaper."

[Goooose]

From an aesthetic standpoint, or engineering standpoint? I am not an engineer, but an urban planning/architectural art historian. So aesthetically and creatively, I am shocked. First by its suspension of the side of the structure, as stated, but secondly by the rugged look of the lift. It has a turn-of-the-century railroad bridge look to it that adds character. But that's a matter of opinion and perhaps from an engineering perspective, it doesn't stand out as much?

 

I wouldn't say that it doesn't stand out - I'm a structural engineer, and though parts of it have been done before on coasters (I305, namely), I do think that cantilevering a portion of the design is pretty unique and, coupled with the track being inverted, should really be a stand-out piece to every person walking through the park. Is it structurally innovative? No, not really. Forces dictate design, and zero force here means that design can be very minimal - which, and I would imagine as a person who clearly appreciates (and works with) architecture you know, is one of the most visually striking things you can do with a structure. It's not something people expect, and it should prove to be pretty unnerving to most people riding.

 

Thanks for sharing your perspective! Much appreciated.

[Goooose]

I love talking to myself.

 

But I had a thought. This might be the first ride on earth that ill prefer a middle seat on, because of the zero g stall. I take the back seat on everything else for stronger forces, and i love when the back of the train gets a negative g diring a zero g hill. But since its inverted, going faster in the back will make it an upside down positive and push riders into their chairs. Similarly, This also might be the first ride that i'd prefer an empty train on, and early ride, or a cold day! Cant wait to try it out.

[jynx242]

And the fee is only $5, which is still really cheap for a whole water park (especially compared to how much everything else in the park costs).

 

Haha!

 

nerd1: "Do you want to go for a pop or go to the waterpark?"

nerd2: "Let's do the waterpark. It's cheaper."

 

LMAO!!!

 

^ I'll agree. The middle seat ought to be pretty "unique."