DBru Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Just browsing the net, I found this article: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=707 Say goodbye to the lap bar. The ubiquitous theme park safety restraint won't be around much longer, if theme park lawyers and engineers get their way. And they should. The one-size-fits-all lap bar never did, putting smaller riders at risk when they shared a lap bar with larger riders. The latest strike against the lap bar? California investigators have ordered Six Flags Marine World in Vallejo, Calif. to make changes on its notorious Star Fish ride. (The folks at the Vallejo News sent me a link to this article they wrote about the state’s decision.) We've reported in accidents at this ride before—the latest incident was similar to the incident on Disneyland’s Roger Rabbit ride that prompted the state to make it the first shut down under California's new theme park safety law. In both cases, centrifugal forces from a spinning car threw a small child from the seat they were sharing with an adult rider. The lap bar that was supposed the hold the two in place couldn’t keep the smaller rider in because it lowered only to higher waist level of the larger rider. The smaller rider then just slipped underneath the bar, and out of the vehicle. The Roger Rabbit incident ended up costing Disney more than $30 million in direct costs to the family of the young boy who was left with brain injuries and permanent disabilities. Not to mention the substantial unknown cost of bad publicity and lost ticket sales. At Marine World, another person who was injured in a previous incident on Star Fish is suing the park. The short-term solution to incidents like those on Star Fish and Roger Rabbit is always to sit the smaller rider on the inside of the seat bench, away from the opening through which riders enter. But even that approach won't protect smaller riders in every case. Long term, the only solution is to do away with one-size-fits-all restraints like bench lap bars and install individual restraints. Seat belts, harnesses and individual lap bars can be adjusted to provide the appropriate restraint for a variety of riders. No matter whom they are sitting next to. Given the huge amounts of money at stake, company lawyers won't be satisfied with short-term, make-do solutions much larger. Nor should they. The theme park industry knows what it must do to protect its customers safety. And that's to rip out the lap bars and install individual ride restraints. So let’s do it. Before any other kids get hurt. I know the article was written in 2002, and these restraints are still in existence today, but it still sparked my attention. More and more, we are hearing of accidents involving the lap bar (Sizzler rides, S:ROS ejection, Hydro, ect.), and it seems that ride manufacturers are reacting to this. For instance, look at Intamin. What major roller coaster have they built lately that doesn't have OTSR's? With the sue-happy world we live in today, ride accidents seem to become more serious. So if this keeps up, may we possibly have to say goodbye to the beloved lap bar? Please discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaparri Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Your title is really misleading. They aren't saying that the lap bar could be done away with altogether. They are saying that bench style lap bars could be done away with, in favor of individual lap bars. While, yes, it might spoil some of the fun on certain rides, my level of concern is negligible. It's a safety issue, so I can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginzo Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 For instance, look at Intamin. What major roller coaster have they built lately that doesn't have OTSR's? Both of the Intamin Mega-Lite coasters, the one in Japan and the one in Denmark, operate with just lap bars. If OTSRs ever became the norm on hypers and woodies, I'd find a new hobby. Don't really see that happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFORCE Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Doesn't it really come down to the park, their employees, and their employees' judgments on whether someone is too big or too small to ride, not the actual lap bar? Wasn't the guy that fell out of S:ROS too big and shouldn't have been riding to begin with? Look at Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster, they both have lap bars. This is MF's 8th year in operation, and TTD's 5th, yet there have never been any accidents (regarding the lap bars) on either coaster, to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaparri Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 ^True, but Millennium Force also has some of the shortest seat belts around as a direct result of the Superman incident. The seat belts now control the size of the riders. Regardless, this article doesn't even mention a migration from lap bars to OTSRs. It's about doing away with car-wide lap bars, similar to buzz bars, in favor of individual lap bars, like most coasters today have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP Psyclone Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Buzz bars are great for airtime, but, let's be honest, do not properly secure both riders in a row if they are of completely different shapes and sizes. If riders and operators are smart enough, there's a way around that as well. I agree with Ginzo, individual, ratcheting lap bars are sufficient for most rides. I don't think lawyers really should have any say in what is required in terms of restraints on any given ride--they're really experts in nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 Your title is really misleading. They aren't saying that the lap bar could be done away with altogether. They are saying that bench style lap bars could be done away with, in favor of individual lap bars. What do you suggest I change the thread title to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scaparri Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 ^I don't know... just something that doesn't make it sound like lap bars are completely being replaced. When I read your title, I was expecting to read something about how all rides might switch to OTSR style restraints, only to find out that wasn't the case at all. When you take into consideration that they are just talking about switching to individual lap bars (arguably the most common restraint today), the whole dilemma seems fairly insignificant. Lap bars aren't going anywhere. Bench-style lap bars might be saying goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Done. Or do I need to change it to "This thread: An arguement about what to title it"? Just kidding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 ^Thank you. But no, it's fine the way it is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiFan Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 In some cases it makes the ride experience better. Both Hershey's and Great Adventure's Arrow Mine Trains got rid of the single lap bar to individual bars and it makes it much more comfortable for taller riders. I no longer need to cross my legs to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 When Thorpe Park refurbished the Flying Fish they converted the bench-style bars to individual bars, partly because they are more comfortable than sliding into the person next to you. As said already, the article doesn't say lapbars are going to become extinct, only the bench-style ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginzo Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Buzz bars are great for airtime, but, let's be honest, do not properly secure both riders in a row if they are of completely different shapes and sizes. Buzz bars do properly secure riders. They were the standard issue woodie restraint for 25+ years and many woodies still use them (Phoenix, Thunderbolt, Cornball, Cyclops, etc.). If Cyclops hasn't ejected a rider yet, then buzz bars are certainly adequate. The problem is when dumb ass riders stand up. This isn't the restraint's fault. Do you blame a building when some idiot jumps off it? And ratcheting lap bars don't circumvent suicidal idiot riders either (Raven accident). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VivaLaVibora Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 As for the article, who were those people that were on the Wipeout, and Roger Rabbit? They were kids that fell out of those rides. They said the kid slid out of the Wipeout. I feel that kids cause a lot of accidents on themselves. They want to get out of the ride because they just don't like it. So, they try to get out of it. I think that's what happened. The Sizzler, you have the same thing. I hate this ride, and let me try to get off when the ride is still moving. If they didn't have that mentality, look at how many lives, or injuries the world could have saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Sim. Fan Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I think if a lap bar is done right its perfectly safe. Schwarzkopf, who is probably one of the greatest coaster makers of all timed proved just how safe a proper lap bar can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedarpointfangirl Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I think if a lap bar is done right its perfectly safe. Schwarzkopf, who is probably one of the greatest coaster makers of all timed proved just how safe a proper lap bar can be. One thing I was wondering, this has to do with Revolution. During WCB Jay was saying that Revolution couldn't be fitted with just lapbars, it had to have OTSR's because it has an inversion. Is it some kind of CA regulation? I was thinking, well SFoT's Shockwave has them, and Mr. Freeze was fitted with them and they both have inversions. Can anyone answer this for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 ^Actually, almost every Schwartzkopf looping coaster have simple lap bar restraints. Either there is a CA policy, or Jay Thomas was blowing smoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrakenKing Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 One thing I was wondering, this has to do with Revolution. During WCB Jay was saying that Revolution couldn't be fitted with just lapbars, it had to have OTSR's because it has an inversion. Is it some kind of CA regulation? I was thinking, well SFoT's Shockwave has them, and Mr. Freeze was fitted with them and they both have inversions. Can anyone answer this for me! Whoever that Jay person is, he's a moron. It was the park's decision to put OTSR's on Revolution (And Zonga... or whatever it's called now). Montezuma's Revenge at Knott's has an inversion (Or two, depending on how you think of it) and it only has a lap bar. It's not a California regulation, it was just Six Flag's decision. I just think that Six Flag also killed those two coasters by adding OTSR's to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Plus, Revolution operated for MANY years without OTSRs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthwnd Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 ^ Yes, I remember riding it with my mom of all people! Back in 1980, when DL was celebrating it's 25th, we included a trip up to MM and ride Revolution. And I know there weren't OSTRs, back then for this coaster. Especially with my mother in it, lol... And I think she enjoyed it as much as myself. Damn she was a brave one! Did the Matterhorn too, and SpaceMountain at DL. And the teacups. What a daring broad she was, LOL. Also - our coaster in Vancouver still runs with only lap bars with great cushiony seats AND side pads, too! It runs like you're going to fly out of it any second, but the bar keeps you there and so far, after 50 great years, nobody has gone bye-bye, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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