Six Flags America (SFA) Discussion Thread

[KDCOASTERFAN]

There is some new hope with Alexander Weber being our CEO now. If Shapiro was still secured, I would not be posting on here right now. I did mention that a park source told me that corporate came in to have a look at the place. He told me that Alexander Weber came to the park with some of the other members on the board. I'm thinking, that it's possible they were planning for some new additions on Fright Fest.

 

Either that......or they were looking for the best place to run the bulldozers through first. LOL

j/j

 

I definitely want to see all the Six Flags parks succeed but I know one thing they'll have to do is get rid of some of those horrible employees.

 

I'd like to see the parks succeed as well but if they continue down the path that Burke & later Shapiro put them on then they won't.

 

Burke's biggest problem was overexpansion of the chain a decade ago when Premier aqquired SF from TW...more parks meant more money had to be budgeted for cap ex,maintenance of existing rides,theming etc. & then the big mistake of purchasing parks overseas made all of that worse.Snyder had his own motives(most likely due to SFA's proximity to his stadium) for taking over & ousting Burke & made an already bad experience worse by instituting mandatory "you know what's" instead of allowing guests to bring items onto ride platforms as a means of making money & that just turned people away more.

 

SFA's best period was probably the premier era (pre SF) as the park was making improvements & adding new rides that fit for a park of it's size but when they tried their hand at the SF conversion they failed due to a lot of factors such as the economic downturn(which happened the same year that batwing was added) along with 9-11 making the economic situation worse resulting in Burke resorting to playing the favorites game of adding expensive rides to only 3 primary parks counting on those investments alone to carry the financial weight of the entire chain & it hasn't paid off & never will.

[SFA Regular]

^^

They sent B:TR to a park that needed an inverted. SFA already had that Vekoma Hang and Bang so maybe that's why they gave him the cold shoulder????

 

I don't think thats the complete reason. Their whole outlook on the park just isn't what it should be. When I come to think of it, I think Burke would a did a much better job with this park like he was on the road to doing. Sense 2001 of Batwing, it took him 3 years until he gave us and I think three other parks Hurricane Harbor. So basically that improved our water park and brought more people back to the park. I believe that another thrill ride was coming up if he remained the CEO, but that winter, Dan Snyder took the company from him. If Burke had stayed, it only would have been 4 years of waiting for a thrill ride, rather than being short of a decade with no thrill ride. Shapiro did give us another water slide, but the park did not really need that. We needed another coaster and corporate did not do it. Instead they invested money in X2, which then disputes what Shapiro had said in press conferences. Shapiro stated before that he was not going to invest money in high price thrill rides. But why in the world did X, Superman, and Medusa both experience investments??? So basically that proves that he went back on his word.

 

Now that we have Alexander Weber as CEO, it brings up more thought as to what the future holds for Six Flags parks. All we know is that he has 40 years of experience with Paramounts and he did a good stretch with water parks. So over all, when you come to think of it, the parks could start seeing a little bit of both. He could add a thrill ride one year and then a water attraction the next season. Thats how Paramounts did things with Kings Dominion and Kings Island. With corporate being at the park recently, I think changes may start to be seen very quickly. Hopefully it starts with the 2011 Fright Fest.

[CoasterNERD502]

I don't know about y'all, but I live right next to SFA and almost everyday, (minus the past few days we were in 100*+ weather) SFA looked like it was crowded. I don't remember this many days last year where the first and second parking lots were filling up on a constant basis. Maybe you guys don't like how barren Gotham City is.. well the trees that are there aren't going to grow any faster just because you complain. Give it a couple years and it will look great!

As for me going to the park, I can honestly admit that I've been to SFA only twice this year and that is simply because I AM BORED with the park. I would rather go to KD or SFGADV instead of SFA, but even though I feel that way, I still support SFA and every decision they make, whether smart or dumb.

I really think the park needs to step their game up and build some thrill rides. A lot of you say that thrill rides ad coasters don't make a park, well look at SFMM; they have like 15 coasters (maybe more/less idk) and hardly any flats or anything else bringing guests back, but they are successful. We as enthusiasts might look farther than coasters, but the GP come mainly because of coasters and SFA is lacking in that department.

[SFA Regular]

I don't know about y'all, but I live right next to SFA and almost everyday, (minus the past few days we were in 100*+ weather) SFA looked like it was crowded. I don't remember this many days last year where the first and second parking lots were filling up on a constant basis. Maybe you guys don't like how barren Gotham City is.. well the trees that are there aren't going to grow any faster just because you complain. Give it a couple years and it will look great!

As for me going to the park, I can honestly admit that I've been to SFA only twice this year and that is simply because I AM BORED with the park. I would rather go to KD or SFGADV instead of SFA, but even though I feel that way, I still support SFA and every decision they make, whether smart or dumb.

I really think the park needs to step their game up and build some thrill rides. A lot of you say that thrill rides ad coasters don't make a park, well look at SFMM; they have like 15 coasters (maybe more/less idk) and hardly any flats or anything else bringing guests back, but they are successful. We as enthusiasts might look farther than coasters, but the GP come mainly because of coasters and SFA is lacking in that department.

 

I agree with CoasterNerd. They are lacking in the thrill department and that seems to be what their competition is beating them with. KD and BGE are not beating SFA with huge kiddie areas. They are beating them with thrill rides like Griffon and Intimidator 305. Even Kennywood added a new thrill ride which is a Premier launch coaster. I'd rather drive the three or 4 hours to check that out. Alexander Weber should be very familiar with KD's method of bringing in attendance. He use to be Paramount's CEO, so maybe he will make SFA more like KD and improve SFA in that similar way. Pretty much I'm hoping that he puts SFA neck to neck with Kings Dominion, so that we don't slip even further behind.

 

What would be even more amazing is if Weber made plans to sign a much bigger deal with Time Warner so that we can get more movie based attractions. Start building more indoor rides at all the parks and make them more unique.

[B-RadG]

We needed another coaster and corporate did not do it. Instead they invested money in X2, which then disputes what Shapiro had said in press conferences. Shapiro stated before that he was not going to invest money in high price thrill rides. But why in the world did X, Superman, and Medusa both experience investments??? So basically that proves that he went back on his word.

Honestly y'all haven't "needed" a new coaster. Six Flags crammed a ton of money into the coasters in a short period of time. Joker's Jinx (1999), Great Chase (1999), Superman (2000), Batwing (2001). The only one of those that was a cheap investment was Great Chase. Because of the park's poor reputation this money wasn't quickly returned.

X2 received a renovation because the old trains were providing a very rough ride which was preventing people from riding it again. When the new trains were added (which also featured on-board audio) it provided a smoother ride, which made people more willing to ride it. Fire isn't that cheap to add or to make and is a cheap gimmick that attracts GP.

Superman at SFNE is #1 in the world, and obviously it hadn't, and won't, hold that title forever. It was just a standard Intamin Hyper with massive airtime and twisties and all that good jazz, and adding new (more comfortable) restraints would help. On-board audio, fire, and fog (like on X2) are a cheap gimmick that the GP eat up.

 

Superman at SFA is operating with enough people riding it. It has no records, no highly regarded titles, and no glorious reputation among the enthusiast community to uphold. It could get fire and on-board audio but if it has good ridership as it is and has no reason to need to be better, why should it? Money wasted that could be saved for a NEW COASTER...

 

Six Flags America can't even keep the coasters that they've had running for a decade or more right all the time. During my visit, Superman was running one train because the anti-rollbacks on the other train wouldn't work right. Batwing was running one train and broke down repeatedly. Mind Eraser was running one train because the other train had a problem with the restraints. Joker's Jinx, made by a manufacturer that's still in business, has only one train because the other was taken out for parts, that makes a lotta sense.

 

So sure, Six Flags America could use a relocated coaster or a medium-sized coaster (THBS clone, Wild Mouse, something similar to Backlot), but a brand-new supercoaster is not necessary (even though it'd be nice for enthusiasts).

[ArizonaGuy]

^^Sounds like SFA needs to get a hold of the coasters they got. Maintenance wise it sounds like they've got a little too much on their plate.

[therooboy]

I visited this park primarily as they had a Intamin Mega as well as several other good coasters & rides.

Maybe they need to put in something new for the locals, but image & reputation counts for quite a lot & they seem to

not help themselves in some areas.

Basics such as napkins, toilets, shade & informed, pleasant staff all throughout parks can really make the difference to a park.

This needs to be across the board, not just in selective areas/sections.

 

Like most experiences in life. Bad experiences get told over & over creating lasting reputations.

I just want to reiterate. I did enjoy the park, but it could be so much better with some small touches, then the increased attendance would justify increased spending.

 

I'm a smoker (yes disgusting, addictive & life shortening habit, i know) i found it stupid that they have smoking areas boxed in concrete without a single umbrella or tree in any.

Just steps away dozens of umbrellas in deserted food areas.

It looks ridiculous. Better off having no smoking area than what is there.

What do they think smokers talk about while standing in there together?

They could also move one or two of the customerless food vans down closer to Batwing.

Things like this just make for bad word of mouth & image, even though they could be rectified at no cost whatsoever.

Edited July 8, 2010 by therooboy

[CardCraze]

Six Flags America doesn't have the crowds to support the cause for several new coasters. SFA will get love from the higher-ups, when it gets love from the GP.

 

And as additions go, Just taking a look back at the decade:

 

-2010: Thomas Town. A great new area with a handful of new rides, mainly for the young ones.

-2008: Tony Hawk's Half Pipe Slide

-2005: Waterpark overhaul

-2003: Penguin's Blizzard River.

-2001: Sky Coaster & Batwing

-2000: Superman: Ride of Steel

 

Yes, i'll agree that SFA isn't getting the same treatment some of the other Six Flags Parks are, but why should it? This is, to most people, the worst the Six Flags chain has to offer. They ARE getting back on the right track, but they just aren't in the position to be recieving major additions every year.

[therooboy]

^

Coming from Australia.

Melbournians & Sydneyites (the 2 biggest cities in Australia) would love to have just those upgrades.

You guys are so spoilt

[ArizonaGuy]

^^

Thanks for posting the major additions in the past 10 years and I totally agree. The park isn't in a position to be getting a major coaster. Over the years the park has gotten some attention....it's just not the coaster attention many people on here want. I'm sure it'll come in due time...but they have to rebuild their customer base first. People don't want to pay $30-$50 bucks to get into a park just to get treated like crap by some employee.

[djbrcace1234]

^

 

 

You have to build with what you have before you can even think to expand.

[Capitalize]

^I don't think age plays that big of a factor in how the employees act.

I moreso think its just the nature of the beast. Minimum wage employees are going to give you a minimum effort. Sure you may find a diamond in the rough every now and then that gives you 110% because they geniunely like what they do, but such staffing is so few and far between you are more likely than not going to come across rude, immature, and inappropriate employees. This is not a problem not exclusive to SFA. The guest service I got from SFA wasn't as bad as I expected, granted I went in went in with low expectations. Rude employees can be caught at Gadv, MM, and even Disney every now and then. It happens.

Good points. Frankly the lowest employees at parks get treated pretty bad and don't get a lot in return. And everyone has bad days. Its just that not everyone has to deal with thousands of people and their at times outlandish requests and angry tirades.

 

That doesn't excuse employees being outwardly rude to guests, or excuse the employees at a particular park for having a bad habit of acting that way more often than other parks - but its easy to understand why it happens.

[SFA Regular]

Six Flags America doesn't have the crowds to support the cause for several new coasters. SFA will get love from the higher-ups, when it gets love from the GP.

 

And as additions go, Just taking a look back at the decade:

 

-2010: Thomas Town. A great new area with a handful of new rides, mainly for the young ones.

-2008: Tony Hawk's Half Pipe Slide

-2005: Waterpark overhaul

-2003: Penguin's Blizzard River.

-2001: Sky Coaster & Batwing

-2000: Superman: Ride of Steel

 

Yes, i'll agree that SFA isn't getting the same treatment some of the other Six Flags Parks are, but why should it? This is, to most people, the worst the Six Flags chain has to offer. They ARE getting back on the right track, but they just aren't in the position to be recieving major additions every year.

 

How is it going to get love from the GP when they don't give us anything anymore. Your asking them to make something out of nothing. And the image is not that bad anymore. Magic Mountain has had more problems with image than what we have had. It all comes down to favoritism. If you always give to one park and not give to the other, how else is the other one going to grow??? It's as simple as cutting a big piece of pie and a small piece of pie. Again, I will say that Burke had SFA on his thoughts again when he gave us Hurricane Harbor. Next step, would have been to renovate the dry side of the park. Possibly by 2007 we would have gotten a new coaster and our Fright Fest would have improved rather than gotten worst.

[Homeboy23]

 

How is it going to get love from the GP when they don't give us anything anymore.

 

And as additions go, Just taking a look back at the decade:

 

-2010: Thomas Town. A great new area with a handful of new rides, mainly for the young ones.

-2008: Tony Hawk's Half Pipe Slide

-2005: Waterpark overhaul

-2003: Penguin's Blizzard River.

-2001: Sky Coaster & Batwing

-2000: Superman: Ride of Steel

 

[okinawaboy11]

Coasters aren't the only thing that draw in attendance.

 

Image problem is a BIG thing and something that is being worked on by the park.

 

 

Yeah they need to work on that. Every one of my friends refuses to go to SFA because they all think the park is "Ghetto and run-down." They all travel the extra distance to go to HP, KD, and BGW, even though SFA is about 30 minutes away while all the others are 2+ hours away.

Once a year I always convince them to go because it isn't THAT bad, and the coaster selection is descent when they are running.

[Hercules]

Magic Mountain has had more problems with image than what we have had.

 

Are shootings in the parking lot considered when talking about image?

[jynx242]

Okay - I've got to chime in here. Executives don't "spoil" one park because they like it better. Period. You don't get to be a CEO of ANY corporation by making decisions like that. I can guarantee you that a WHOLE LOT MORE goes into the decision than "I don't like Six Flags America."

 

First and foremost, these are businesses. Improvements and capital expenditures go where a whole group of analysts figure they will do the most good. Yes - I think it would be AWESOME if SFA got a new mega-super-dooper-awesome coaster. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be great, but, the park needs to improve its existing infrastructure, maintenance and staffing issues. That isn't making something out of nothing. Quiet the opposite. Everything is already there - it just needs to WORK CORRECTLY.

 

They are on the right track, and I believe they will see the capital expenditure that you all want to see sometime down the road. But please, it makes no sense to say that one park is "spoiled" over another. That thought is frankly ridiculous.

[Hercules]

^ Excellent post. Thank you for bringing some clear objective thinking to this thread.

[SFA Regular]

But I still think people are avoiding the fact that they took out two major rides and did not replace them with anything. If Shapiro had stayed, I think this would have continued until the park had no major rides left and was put in the same kind of situation that Kentucky Kingdom was in. Thats another park that Shapiro kind of turned his back on. After the one accident happened on Superman Tower of Power the park received no more love. Then he decides to remove another major coaster and give it to a park that already has enough coasters. Basically it shows he was making one park better at the expense of another. If that not an example of spoiled than I don't know what is.

 

I'll be speaking to more of my park sources on what's to come for SFA Fright Fest this season. We probably won't start hearing anything until August starts.

[BeemerBoy]

But I still think people are avoiding the fact that they took out two major rides and did not replace them with anything. If Shapiro had stayed, I think this would have continued until the park had no major rides left and was put in the same kind of situation that Kentucky Kingdom was in. Thats another park that Shapiro kind of turned his back on. After the one accident happened on Superman Tower of Power the park received no more love. Then he decides to remove another major coaster and give it to a park that already has enough coasters. Basically it shows he was making one park better at the expense of another. If that not an example of spoiled than I don't know what is.

 

I'll be speaking to more of my park sources on what's to come for SFA Fright Fest this season. We probably won't start hearing anything until August starts.

See, I've heard that Shapiro actually tried to get Wild One changed to "Wilder One" due to his opinion that it was far superior to SFMM's woodies. To me, that definitely shows that he loved SFA much more than you give him credit for. Is there any truth to this? Can your sources weigh in perhaps?

[djbrcace1234]

Like jynx242 said here, A park that gets new additions have the resources, and the projected attendence to recieve new rides. SFA, like I said has to build up before it tries to even expand.

[SFA Regular]

But I still think people are avoiding the fact that they took out two major rides and did not replace them with anything. If Shapiro had stayed, I think this would have continued until the park had no major rides left and was put in the same kind of situation that Kentucky Kingdom was in. Thats another park that Shapiro kind of turned his back on. After the one accident happened on Superman Tower of Power the park received no more love. Then he decides to remove another major coaster and give it to a park that already has enough coasters. Basically it shows he was making one park better at the expense of another. If that not an example of spoiled than I don't know what is.

 

I'll be speaking to more of my park sources on what's to come for SFA Fright Fest this season. We probably won't start hearing anything until August starts.

See, I've heard that Shapiro actually tried to get Wild One changed to "Wilder One" due to his opinion that it was far superior to SFMM's woodies. To me, that definitely shows that he loved SFA much more than you give him credit for. Is there any truth to this? Can your sources weigh in perhaps?

 

My park source told me that that the name change was not true. And here is the thing with that. What would changing the name have done to the ride? Would it have made it 2 times better? The answer is no. No matter what, the ride would have been the same but because of it's classic value, it was probably nearly impossible for him to do. If he really wanted to do anything he could have replaced Tower of Doom with a bigger drop ride.

[jynx242]

Perhaps there were no replacements because the parks operating budget, maintenance budget and staffing budget were not in line with keeping the existing rides, let alone replacing them with something newer which would require training, more staff, etc... This is just speculation, seeing as how I am not a corporate decision maker for SF. Parks that did get rides, etc. just had more budget. Budgets are most likely done on a park-to-park basis, and not company wide.

 

Like I said - the addition of Thomas Town speaks volumes for the way the park is moving. Face it - it got a pretty bad reputation for a while (some deserved, some un-deserved.) This addition shows that they are working on correcting that. I remember when SFoG got pretty shady. You just didn't feel safe there and crime in the area was pretty crazy. They have turned that around now and are doing fine. (Also - the last couple of years held a re-furb of an awesome dark ride and a Thomas Town - nothing really big.)

 

Keep the faith - it's going in the right direction. NOBODY can change the past and what happened under previous regimes - so look forward.

 

David "motivation is my middle name" McCollum

[KDCOASTERFAN]

I don't know about y'all, but I live right next to SFA and almost everyday, (minus the past few days we were in 100*+ weather) SFA looked like it was crowded. I don't remember this many days last year where the first and second parking lots were filling up on a constant basis. Maybe you guys don't like how barren Gotham City is.. well the trees that are there aren't going to grow any faster just because you complain. Give it a couple years and it will look great!

As for me going to the park, I can honestly admit that I've been to SFA only twice this year and that is simply because I AM BORED with the park. I would rather go to KD or SFGADV instead of SFA, but even though I feel that way, I still support SFA and every decision they make, whether smart or dumb.

I really think the park needs to step their game up and build some thrill rides. A lot of you say that thrill rides ad coasters don't make a park, well look at SFMM; they have like 15 coasters (maybe more/less idk) and hardly any flats or anything else bringing guests back, but they are successful. We as enthusiasts might look farther than coasters, but the GP come mainly because of coasters and SFA is lacking in that department.

 

That's the thing that we've been complaining about for years & SFMM is a prime example of how far some of the SF parks have gotten out of balance,Shapiro wanted to create a family image which is important but unfortunately fell short of that goal.If you don't like coasters but have a family to bring then SFMM isn't the park for you.

 

The parks need to strike a balance & too much in any one direction of focus disrupts that balance,SFA was given water rides recently & at most once every 2 to 4 years while other SF parks were given flats or coasters on the average of every other year & why? because it was cost effective.

 

For instance SFI spent on average $200 million per year prior to 02 which was enough to cover rides for most of the parks but starting with the 02 season that budget was cut in half with a good percentage of that going towards two or three expensive coasters(usually B&M's at 20 million a piece) plus the 25 million wasted on that maintenance nightmare known as KK for 05 at SFGRADV resulting in next to nothing for the other parks,that coupled with ride removals at parks (cough SFA cough) left guests with even less to do than before & that's why parks like SFA are seeing a decline in attendance much more than the parks in the chain that are adding new rides & coasters on a consistent basis.

[Yamez]

Perhaps there were no replacements because the parks operating budget, maintenance budget and staffing budget were not in line with keeping the existing rides, let alone replacing them with something newer which would require training, more staff, etc... This is just speculation, seeing as how I am not a corporate decision maker for SF. Parks that did get rides, etc. just had more budget. Budgets are most likely done on a park-to-park basis, and not company wide.

 

You sir, are awesome.

 

Parks don't remove rides because they hate them. They're removed generally for one of the following reasons:

A) Maintenance costs outweigh the benefits the ride brings in.

B) The ride is unsafe for operation

C) The ride has been known to harm people and has a bad public image

D) The ride has low ridership, which can be attributed to either A, B, or C.

E) Expansion or new installation

 

Its logical.

 

SFA Regular, you seem to be going off on this rant about how SFI hates SFA. They don't hate the park, but they are trying to run a good business as jynx pointed out. Stop being a fanboy for 2.5 seconds and stop and think about what corporate and the GP sees.