Six Flags America (SFA) Discussion Thread

[airtime]

It's time for a new major attraction at the park. My concern, is, they need to get what they have, working correctly first. Tony Hawk was a nice addition this season. However, we can't wait any longer, a new major attraction is needed. Does it need to be a coaster? Nope, but it needs to be simple and cheap (dark ride perhaps) so the park can work on continuing to improve and get what they have working. Sine the new GM didn't have the off season to prepare (he started his new position in late May) he can make his mark on the park this off season. The new GM is a hard working individual and I believe he is the right person for the job.

 

I kind of came down hard in my earlier post on Marylanders. Don't get me wrong, Maryland has some hard working individuals. I know SFA has some bright and talented individuals working for them, however it is hard to place blame squarely at the feet of the park. Everyone needs to work as a team, the county, state, SFI, and SFA. Only then will SFA live up to it's potential to be a dominating Mid-Atlantic park.

 

B&M. If you average the rides out SFA has done pretty well:

 

99: Two Face and Joker's Jinx

00: Superman

01: Avalanche, Batwing

02: off year

03: Penguin's Blizzard River

04: off year

05: Hurricane Harbor remodel

06: Off Year

07: Off Year

08: Tony Hawk

 

SFA's guest really do come for the water rides. On any given day, there is a big line for Shipwreck Falls, Renegade Rapids and the water park is packed. If SFA were to do a few more things to Penguin's Blizzard River it would be a big success as well.

[SFAfan#1]

Penguin's Blizzard River always has a huge line. I hardly ever see it without a line coming out of the station.

[airtime]

I don't consider that a long line. If it was coming out of the station and down the steps and into the overflow queue, then I might consider that a long line. I don't think I have seen a line longer than that last curve before entering the station this season.

[Capitalize]

I wouldn't call his statement racist. I'm white and I go to the park that makes me part of the public. In the years I have been going to the park, I have come to the conclusion there is no dominant race that visits the park. If your Black or White, Hispanics, Asian, Middle Eastern etc... It all depends on when you go. Obviously if you go on a day a Hispanic radio station is at the park promotion it, you may find the guests to be more hispanic. Alot of what happens at the park depends on what is going on at the park. I will say the guests are rude. I've determined that, especially after visiting Hard Rock Park and then thinking about my visits to parks like SFFT. However, that isn't the parks fault, that is Maryland for you.

 

Service is not a word Marylanders are known for. I experience poor service at my local grocery store, bank, restaurants and shopping mall. Walk down the boardwalk in Ocean City on Sunday morning at 6:00 am and look at the trash that is left behind. Go to a movie in Maryland and you will bewildered at how long it takes to get a bucket of popcorn from the concession stand. It's not just teenagers, the cashiers at my local grocery story aren't teenagers, they are paid much higher than minimum wage and you would think they work for Wal-Mart. Actually, I think I get better service from Wal-mart.

 

The Washington, D.C. area is a majority white collar work force. There are more jobs than employers can fill. People realize they can leave one job and find another one. Put Six Flags America in West Virginia (a state that needs the jobs) and you would have a very different park.

 

For those that are criticizing the park because Two Face isn't running and Hurricane Mountain is closed, how do you know there isn't discussion going on in the background about those rides? Rides have been left at other parks SBNO for years, SFA isn't any different. I would also be surprised if the rest of the storage building that caught fire isn't raised and removed before Fright Fest. P.G. County is the permit capital of the world. It wouldn't surprise me if the county government lost of the application for the permit. With the the end of daily operations coming in the next two weeks, that would be a good time to have it removed safely and cost effectively.

 

Remember, everything that happens at SFA isn't the parks fault, blame should be placed at the county government, it's guests, and yes, the parks should receive some of the blame as well.

 

 

I was thinking mostly about the "same people working there" aspect of his post. When I was working there I was one of 3-4 workers who were not african american in the rides department. Since then it appears based on my trips the ride department is essentially entirely african american... I'm probably putting too much thought into it, but thats the way I'm understanding it.

[spaceace12]

Heard on the radio that Freddie Mac and Fannie May rented out SFA for a employee appreciation day. A company that required a gov't bail out or go bust spends that kind of money on a park buy out for employees. Something doesn't sound right.

[SFAfan#1]

Does anyone know what is going on at SFA today? I drove by earlier and there were giant lines to get into the parking lot and from the looks of it, the second parking lot (The one you can see when looking through the exit gate) was 100% full.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

^I've said this time and time again, Six Flags just manages too many parks. Magic Mountain, Starting from Viper in '90, got a coaster in:

92 (Flashback)

94 (Batman)

97 (Superman)

98 (Riddler's Revenge)

2000 (Goliath)

01 (Deja Vu)

02(X)

03 (Scream!)

06 (Tatsu)

and one scheduled for 09. As you can see in the past 18 seasons the park hasn't gone longer than three years without a major ride. Sure the park is the highest grossing in the chain,but the chain can't afford to do that type of expansion for every one of their parks. A ride like Scream IMO would have done better in a park like SFA. It doesn't seem to fit in with the line up inMM, and a park that hasn't opened a ride since 2001 would've appreciated it more.

 

Technically speaking X was an 01 attraction,they just couldn't get it up & running for a majority of the year so many count it as an 02 ride.

 

Shapiro has this whole" only teens ride coasters & don't bring in the money" excuse wrong. Whenever I'm at the parks be it SFA or KD I've seen PLENTY of families consisting of folks young & old queuing up to ride the coasters.Of course it sounds much more paletable to the consumer as an excuse rather than saying "we are so far up our rears in debt that we cannot afford to build any major coasters at our parks at the present time.

 

Hey Airtime when did SFA get a new GM & who is he? It can't be Terry Prather as he's been with the park for at least a couple of years already.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^Every Coaster boy in LA knows about X opening for one week, then closing for six months (who opens a coaster in freakin' January?). It's simple to say you aren't building major coasters anymore because "no spending money teens fill up the park" when you build them. No matter what anyone says, or what numbers you release, you can't convince me that Rollercoasters bring in nothing but teens. KidCoaster Fan makes an interesting point I can elaborate further on. Why is it that thrill coaster attract "nothing but teens" when we all see for ourselves that the audience for these rides can and do range from youngsters just barely reach the height requirement to grandma and grandpa riding out Tatsu with their grandson. Everytime I go to California Adventure, Screamin' always has a longer line than Mullholland Madness. At Disneyland, Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain are two pf the longest lines in the park. X at Magic Mountain has had the longest line in the park since day one. People may go to Knott's Berry Farm for the chicken, but they stay for Silver Bullet and Xcelerator. People love rollercoasters. If they really wanted to up dollars on family fun they'd just go to a Disney or Universal park. You go to Six Flags to have the crap scared out of you.

[airtime]

New GM started a week or two before Memorial Day.

 

For those of you that fill the park is rotting away because they haven't raise the remains of Frightorium, the building is gone. All that is left is sweeping.

 

Like I said, it takes a little while to get permits and hire a contractor to raise a building.

[AmyUD06]

Went to the park today (Sun 8/17); I hadn't been there since '99. WOW. I really forgot how small and poorly-done everything about this park is except the scenery. Half of the rides were closed, the half that were open had HORRIBLE disptach times, and I'd say maybe 25% of food stands were even open. Superman was being operated by maintenence staff, and was running incredibly slowly. Great ride, of course. Batwing was running one side of the station, one train only, and took forever. Joker's Jinx stacked for 5-10 minutes each cycle without fail; same with Roar and Wild One. Mind Eraser and the river rapids ride not even open at mid-day.

 

Waterpark operations were painfully slow too. They need more tubes in cycling at each slide, or is that just another SF ploy to make money by pushing the tube rentals? The lazy river and area inside it was closed due to lack of staff.

 

Roar and Wild One are the only unique (as in non-duplicate) coasters the park has, though the nearest Superman clone is a good ways away. While those three are good in their own right, they are nothing special; the park desperately needs a signature attraction and more staff if they want to improve their image and reputation. Or, maybe they're content catering only to the local crowd who doesn't think to expect good things from a park. If the rumors of SF closing or selling off parks soon are true, I see this near the top of the list for the chopping block.

 

The scenery was nice, but the staff (those that were there) was inefficent and unfriendly and only half of everything was open. If I had paid money to go to the park today I would have been VERY upset. I could understand this on a weekday, but c'mon...it's a Sunday in August. Just one more reason I won't be getting a SF pass in '09.

[airtime]

Half of the rides were closed, the half that were open had HORRIBLE disptach times, and I'd say maybe 25% of food stands were even open.

 

I was at the park today and IMHO, the park did okay with dispatch times. The only food stands that I noticed that didn't open were Southwest Papa Johns and Papa Johns in Skull Island. Not sure about Hurricane Harbor. There were a number of games in Southwest Territory that were closed as well. If the park had full staffed the revenue generating departments then someone would have complained that they could find the staff to run the games and restaurants but not find the staff to run the rides.

 

Superman was being operated by maintenence staff, and was running incredibly slowly. Great ride, of course.

 

I appreciate the fact the maintenance staff was running the rides, if they weren't going to run the rides, who was? This time of year, kids are moving to college and enjoying a last week of summer vacation before heading back to school. I thought the ride maintenance staff did a decent job for something they don't do on a daily basis.

 

Joker's Jinx stacked for 5-10 minutes each cycle without fail; same with Roar and Wild One. Mind Eraser and the river rapids ride not even open at mid-day.

 

I never waited 5 or 10 minutes on any of my rides, except for Superman which was a 15 minute wait for the front row. Yes, Joker's Jinx was stacking, but it doesn't have any choice. The ride finishes before the guests leaves the unload platform. The crew on Roar was doing a fabulous job. They were racing to to dispatch the train before the next train hit the brake run. The ride op spoke clearly when given instructions and was having fun, saying things like "Unleash the Beast" when dispatching the train. Wild One's blue train was running rough and yes, the crew could have probably been a little faster, but when I rode it, it was being ran by ride maintenance as well.

 

Waterpark operations were painfully slow too. They need more tubes in cycling at each slide, or is that just another SF ploy to make money by pushing the tube rentals?

 

First, tube rentals at Six Flags America, I believe, can only be used in the wave pool. Second, why does the park need more tubes. I hate holding a tube, in line, walking up the stairs. On a couple of slides if someone can't hold onto the tube and it slides back down the stairs, there is a change someone could get injured. I would much rather wait in line for a tube than have to stand in line.

 

The lazy river and area inside it was closed due to lack of staff.

 

See my quote above and the fact the park has a hard time finding english speaking lifeguards. They used to use international hires, but I believe corporate made a decision the lifeguards had to be able to fluently speak english. Thus the shortage of lifeguards. Since every community had a pool guarded by a lifeguard these days, it is hard to find lifeguards.

 

While those three are good in their own right, they are nothing special; the park desperately needs a signature attraction and more staff if they want to improve their image and reputation.

 

The park started recruiting last October for 2008. They hired more people this year than at anytime in the past. It is the time of the year you went. Made this trip in very late June or early July, you probably wouldn't have had this problem. Yes, the park was short staffed yesterday. Every department was short staffed. However for the staff that was there, I think they did a okay job.

 

In fact, today was suppose to be the first day of school for students in P.G. County. Luckily the school system changed their mind or the park would have been closed this week.

 

 

Or, maybe they're content catering only to the local crowd who doesn't think to expect good things from a park. If the rumors of SF closing or selling off parks soon are true, I see this near the top of the list for the chopping block.

 

Last conference call, Mark Shapiro said they weren't interested in selling off more parks.

 

Interesting how two people can go to this park and have nearly two different experiences.

 

I was more upset that Joker's Jinx and Superman didn't open on time. However, in the two hours I was riding rides I rode:

 

Joker's Jinx - 2

Superman - 1

Roar - 1

Wild One -1

 

I opted not to ride Batwing.

[SFAfan#1]

I'm glad to see that they knocked that building down. I really hope they re-build it before Fright Fest. They could do whatever they want in that plot of land and a nice new haunted house would be perfect, for now.

[jamesdillaman]

^It would seem doubtful they would replace it with another seasonal attraction, but you never know... I guess a lot depends on the insurance payout...

 

-James Dillaman

[cfc]

Based on the state of the park this season, I think you'd be lucky if you got a maze in a tent, much less a new building.

 

This is too bad as I really enjoyed myself at SFA last season.

[Capitalize]

Someone who thinks SFA has decent scenery?

 

I strongly doubt the truthiness of his post based on that aspect... I personally find SFA's "scenery" or complete lack thereof is consistently one of the things that annoys me the very most.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^Well that all depends on when you visit, if your with a special group etc. Magic Mountain made an effort to have every ride opened on time and fully staffed on Tatsu's Media Day due to the media being there. Of course the park slipped back into it's old habbits once the news vans left and Del Holland went back to whereever it is he went when not in the park.

[generaleclectic]

I dunno...

 

I think the park itself has great potential. There are some bits that seem to indicate that SF is getting ready to sell it or close it.

 

#1: They don't wear the same uniforms as the other SF parks that I have been to in 2008.

#2: No Q-Bots

#3: Ride Ops do not appear to have the same training as the other SF parks. If they do, then the trainer sucks.

 

The ops weren't all that good the day that the East Coast trip visited. SROS and Wild One were both scheduled for ERT. BOTH were busted when we arrived or shortly there after. They should have been testing an hour before we got there.

 

Of course we have SFOG in here in Georgia. For one of the brand's oldest parks, they do a fantastic job and the demographic isn't that much different. People from all over the south drive anywhere from 4 to 6 hours to get to it. That having been said and knowing that SF usually does not have more than one park in a given state, I commented to some friends on the East Coast trip that the park would probably do VERY VERY well if it were simply picked up and moved to central Georgia or southern South Carolina. Georgia only has SFOG and Wild Adventures. I think SF would make MORE than bank if they packed up SFA and moved it to Savannah or Hilton Head Island and renamed it Six Flags Coastal Empire. Granted it would take 5 to 10 years to start seeing positive numbers returned on the ROI of a massive move like that, but it would happen especially in an already tourism rich area such as coastal Georgia. Moreover, it would give families and teens something to do around here without having to drive 4 to 6 hours.

[krazekiddd]

To touch a bit on with what Eli said, the park didn't impress me at all!

 

Something that was shocking, and really embarrassing was what happened when we tried to use our express passes on the penguin rapids ride.

 

We basically didn't need them at all that day, but with that ride being the longest (about a 20 minute wait), we decided to use it. When we got up to the station, the ride op started booing us and encouraged everyone in line to boo us as well. He then started heckling us for cutting in line in front of "poor little kids". Seriously, that was crap.

 

I'm more irritated at myself because I didn't think to grab Robb's camera out of my bag and film him.

 

Oh and waiting over an hour for security to show up to unlock a locker wasn't fun either. The locker attendant (yellow man as the employees referred to him) disappeared and showed up again just after our locker was opened.

 

That park has so much potential but needs a lot of work to be done.

[CoasterLover]

I dunno...

 

I think the park itself has great potential. There are some bits that seem to indicate that SF is getting ready to sell it or close it.

 

#1: They don't wear the same uniforms as the other SF parks that I have been to in 2008.

 

They're the same uniforms, only they are not that obnoxious yellow color. I'm still not sure why they would only wear the blue uniform for one year... seems a terrible waste of money, or a very unfair expense for the employees... I believe SFA is not the only park that kept the blue uniforms from last season...

 

#2: No Q-Bots

 

The same can be said for half the other parks in the chain... including both California parks, SFKK, SFM, and Great Escape...

 

#3: Ride Ops do not appear to have the same training as the other SF parks. If they do, then the trainer sucks.

 

Apparently you've never been to La Ronde...

[generaleclectic]

I dunno...

 

I think the park itself has great potential. There are some bits that seem to indicate that SF is getting ready to sell it or close it.

 

#1: They don't wear the same uniforms as the other SF parks that I have been to in 2008.

 

They're the same uniforms, only they are not that obnoxious yellow color. I'm still not sure why they would only wear the blue uniform for one year... seems a terrible waste of money, or a very unfair expense for the employees... I believe SFA is not the only park that kept the blue uniforms from last season...

 

Ok... If the employees are having to buy them, then I can surrender that. Speaking as a stock holder though, I would personally like to see some consistency across the brand. If that means that the company need to buy at least 2 or 3 shirts for the employees, then so be it. The fact that SFA (and apparently some others) are allowed to use the same uniforms again when there is a major change seems to indicate that there some issues between the park and the brand. It tells me that SFA is less of a priority than some others. I seem to remember someone with some information on SF numbers as a whole saying that SFA has remained profitable year after year for sometime. Why then the lack of corporate oversight?

 

#2: No Q-Bots

 

The same can be said for half the other parks in the chain... including both California parks, SFKK, SFM, and Great Escape...

 

 

Is there a reason? After some little bits and pieces of information regarding the Q-Bots, I know that it is quite an expensive system to install. This brings me back to consistency across the brand. If the parks were operated as franchises, I probably wouldn't bring consistancy up as a point since franchises are allowed a certain amount of levity in what they offer their customers.

 

#3: Ride Ops do not appear to have the same training as the other SF parks. If they do, then the trainer sucks.

 

Apparently you've never been to La Ronde...

 

Nope. Haven't been there. I would be interested in your thoughts on this park in a private message as I scour TPR for some posts about the property.

 

The spirit of my original post though is that SFA seems to be getting less corporate attention than the other SF properties that I have visited. It all adds up to a couple of questions: Is SF planning to sell it or close it? Do they simply have a crap local president at SFA? As a new stock holder in the company, I plan on listening closely to the webcasts and participating in stock holder town hall meetings so that I can gain a better understanding of what is going on. Admittedly, like so many others, I don't know 100% or even 50% of what is going on. You can rest assured that if I am going to be pumping my own, hard earned money into something as major as a stock investment, I will be seeking to understand more of what the corporate strategy is.

[SFAfan#1]

Of course we have SFOG in here in Georgia. For one of the brand's oldest parks, they do a fantastic job and the demographic isn't that much different. People from all over the south drive anywhere from 4 to 6 hours to get to it. That having been said and knowing that SF usually does not have more than one park in a given state, I commented to some friends on the East Coast trip that the park would probably do VERY VERY well if it were simply picked up and moved to central Georgia or southern South Carolina. Georgia only has SFOG and Wild Adventures. I think SF would make MORE than bank if they packed up SFA and moved it to Savannah or Hilton Head Island and renamed it Six Flags Coastal Empire. Granted it would take 5 to 10 years to start seeing positive numbers returned on the ROI of a massive move like that, but it would happen especially in an already tourism rich area such as coastal Georgia. Moreover, it would give families and teens something to do around here without having to drive 4 to 6 hours.

 

Ok, if they moved SFA down to Georgia, then I would end up going crazy because SFA is only 1 minute away from my house. SFA could be improved but moving it is a stupid idea.

[generaleclectic]

^Yah... You're probably right.

 

Wouldn't be the first stupid idea that I came up with.

[airtime]

First, I wouldn't say the Park President is crap. He just started in May, give him an off season to implement his on plan for the park. The park had a big mtvU concert tonight. They did a very good job of managing it.

 

The park doesn't need a QBOT system, it really doesn't even need Fast Pass. The lines are less than 30 minutes for a majority of time, I'd rather they sink the money into fixing the park.

 

Someone mentioned the ride operator booing them when they walk up. It seems the park is working on trying to get the ride ops to be more enthusiastic and interact with the crowd. In this case, it sounds like it backfired. I saw a phenomenal crew on Roar on Sunday. First time, I actually saw them trying to dispatch a train before it hit the brake run. Today, 2 of the 3 same members I saw on Sunday were working the ride. They were acting like a bunch circus clowns. Today, I heard the Joker's Jinx ride op telling everyone to put their hands up in the air and then he would dispatch the train, or countdown from 5 and launch the train. They are trying to improve.

 

Also, I believe Mark Shapiro said they are not considering selling anymore parks.

[robbalvey]

I think it's really easy to defend the park when you are a local, but I think you really need to try to look at the park as an outsiders perspective.

 

I hadn't visited the park since I lived in the Baltimore area and I found the park to be in a serious state of disrepair.

 

The entire experience "felt" like the park was about to either be sold or closed.

 

I'm not sure how exactly to discribe why I felt that way, but that was my gut feeling. It would seem as though corporate is ignorning this park and has not gotten the same "love" that all the other Six Flags parks have received since Shaprio took over.

 

IMO, the park no longer fits into the model that they have created for Six Flags.

 

As a smaller regional park, I think it would work just fine. But as a Six Flags park under the new management's vision, it doesn't even come close to cutting it.

 

--Robb

[Meteornotes]

As I've said for years, this place is destined to be Condo Land eventually. Property values in the DC area are eventually going to make this too attractive a deal to pass up. SF has neglected this place for years, and are likely just waiting for a really good offer. I really doubt that anyone will come in and buy the park and operate it on their own.

 

I haven't been to the park since 2003, and I live about an hour away. I just don't see the sense in spending my time and money to go to such a run down place.

 

dt