Carowinds Discussion Thread

[Intamin_coyote]

Rip out Vortex and you have a neat transition between it and the RRR.

 

They'd convert it to floorless before they'd remove it, most likely...

[Cavan]

Rapids is a goner. There's nothing mechanically wrong with it. It is a simple concrete slide with a simple pump system. The real problem is having a capacity worse than Nighthawk. I'm glad to see it go.

 

Now, a Valravn and Steve one-two punch would mean a new coaster opening 2021, not next year. Math is hard.

 

Vortex isn't worth converting to floorless anymore. It sucks and no one who has ridden it before, rides it again. Bye bye. Does it HAVE to be removed for a new RMC? No. But it would make another great front gate statement and provide great midway interaction. If vortex was removed for this, the gentle slope from where the ride sits down to Fury would make awesome terrain for a woodie.

 

Another option is removing screamweaver and having midway interaction over there. Everyone knows that's the worst looking section of midway in the entire park. An RMC stall placed over top would make it the best looking section.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Cavan

[Intamin_coyote]

Now, a Valravn and Steve one-two punch would mean a new coaster opening 2021

 

It would?

[coasterbill]

Vortex isn't worth converting to floorless anymore. It sucks and no one who has ridden it before, rides it again. Bye bye. .

 

Based on?

 

I love that you can look things up now so you don't have to rely on anecdotal crap.

 

The ride has bad capacity but it usually has comparable wait times to Intimidator. That ride is a capacity whore and Vortex is a capacity disaster (assuming it's been running one train which it probably has, if it's running two then it's still bad but slightly less awful) so I'm not implying that it's a more popular ride but people prove almost daily that they'd happily wait 20-40 minutes for it.

 

I get that you personally don't like it but don't try to apply your opinion to the rest of the world. If they did anything to this ride they would probably just convert it to a floorless coaster since they've done it twice before, though I wouldn't care if they just left it alone either.

[Cavan]

Working at the park for 3 years, I've never seen a ride run so many empty seats. And we all know creating Rougarou did not make the ride any more popular.

[coasterbill]

Working at the park for 3 years, I've never seen a ride run so many empty seats.

 

Well of course the seats are empty, everyone is standing.

[yawetag]

[Vortex] has bad capacity but it usually has comparable wait times to Intimidator. That ride is a capacity whore and Vortex is a capacity disaster (assuming it's been running one train which it probably has, if it's running two then it's still bad but slightly less awful) so I'm not implying that it's a more popular ride but people prove almost daily that they'd happily wait 20-40 minutes for it.

 

I've been at the park almost every operating day so far this year. I've ridden (checks his logs) Intimidator 4 times and Vortex twice and walked by both numerous times. In my personal experience, Vortex has been running two trains, with very little queue. If there's a 20-minute wait, it's because you're at the bottom of the stairs and they have horribly-slow dispatch times. Even with that, it's not at a constant 20-minute, and certainly not a 40-minute.

 

I've never seen queue-times. How do they determine those wait times? Cause I'm going to assume it's by people reporting their wait times. And that's just as anecdotal as our own experience.

 

Rip out Vortex

 

Why would they do that?

 

Because the ride is too short (which was a complaint in 1992) and I don't think adding a different train type will build enough demand to be worth it. Take it out and couple it with a new ride that takes over RRR. It'll bring much higher demand, and the look of a ride "interacting" with that walkway will be much more pleasing than a ride essentially hidden by the shops, bathroom, and ivy-covered tunnel.

[coasterbill]

How do they determine those wait times? Cause I'm going to assume it's by people reporting their wait times. And that's just as anecdotal as our own experience.

 

The wait time is pulled from the park's app automatically. While not 100% accurate it's much more accurate than anything else we can go by. The fact that the park is running 2 trains actually makes my point even stronger.

 

It's not the most popular ride in the world and I already stated that it's capacity clearly sucks and plays a major role in it's wait times but the ride seems popular enough if people will routinely wait between 20-45 minutes for it (albeit usually on the lower end, it looks like the park was slammed Thursday and Saturday when it hit 45).

 

In addition they probably have tons of free spare parts for the trains thanks to California's Great America and it doesn't seem to have any chronic or expensive mechanical problems (maybe it does but it's a B&M and it usually seems to be operating so there's no reason to think this). There's also no shortage of expansion space... there's just no reason to remove this ride. It's not an enthusiast favorite but clearly enough people like it.

 

People just want it removed because they personally don't like it.

Edited April 23, 2019 by coasterbill

[yawetag]

It's not the most popular ride in the world and I already stated that it's capacity clearly sucks and plays a major role in it's wait times but the ride seems popular enough if people will routinely wait between 20-40 minutes for it. In addition they probably have tons of free spare parts for the trains thanks to California's Great America and it doesn't seem to have any chronic or expensive mechanical problems and there's no shortage of expansion space... there's just no reason to remove this ride. It's not an enthusiast favorite but clearly enough people like it.

 

But people aren't waiting 20-40 minutes for it. You'd be lucky to see a 20-minute wait. Trusting the Carowinds app for wait times isn't any more accurate than my own eyes, though I do understand the website probably considers it the most accurate source. I'm not even sure how the app determines wait times.

[coasterbill]

At most parks the ride ops call in the wait times. Nobody is claiming that any park's wait time app is gospel but it's also much better than estimates by coaster enthusiasts who walk by the ride occasionally throughout the day.

 

Ride ops don't generally call in and report ridiculous wait times just for kicks though, I guarantee that it hit about 45 minutes at some point on those two days because the number came from somewhere. Usually when wait times are wrong it's because the wait time was right when they reported it but then it dropped dramatically and they took their time updating it again because it's not exactly their #1 priority (for example, they reported that the ride had a 15 minute wait time at 10pm last Wednesday and I would bet anything that it was a walk-on by that point, I also have a strange suspicion that the reason it went to 45 minutes for the first time all day at 6pm on Thursday was because it went down to 1 train briefly because nothing else would really explain that).

 

I wasn't there obviously, but you can sort of read the tea leaves with a little common sense.

 

... anyway, if people want to argue semantics on wait times being off by 10 minutes here or that it doesn't really change the overall point. The point is that there's no reason to get rid of Vortex. It's reasonably popular, they already have a ton of expansion space and they're likely sitting on a mountain of free spare parts.

[CoasterAuditor]

^But Coasterbill RMCs are much better than boring old coasters and what enthusiasts want is universally what parks go by for expansions!

 

/s

[coasterbill]

^ Seriously, with Dinos on the way out and the rapids already gone they have enough room for pretty much anything they could possibly want (they could easily build a massive coaster on each plot if they wanted to which they probably don't since they just built one). I don't know why people expect them to remove a reasonably-popular and reliable coaster that they probably have tons of spare parts for to free up a plot of land that's no larger than either of those and much more awkward. If this ride were at Knott's or something I could totally understand why everyone had the pitchforks out but it makes no sense at Carowinds.

Edited April 23, 2019 by coasterbill

[CoasterAuditor]

People just expect parks to build RMCs and Intamins all over the place full of ejector air versus literally anything else. The people who really want those particular exact type of rides is probably less than 1% of a parks annual attendance.

[jarmor]

Rapids is a goner. There's nothing mechanically wrong with it. It is a simple concrete slide with a simple pump system. The real problem is having a capacity worse than Nighthawk. I'm glad to see it go.

Sorry to say but that is not true. The ride, as it was explained to me, was getting to the point where it was difficult to replace parts since it was pretty much made in house. Coupled that with low ridership (not capacity) and you have a good excuse for getting rid of it. The park already has low capacity per guest go they wouldn't just go get rid of a ride because the capacity is low.

[RollerManic]

I was also thinking about the Dinos Alive plot of land, except I was thinking it was already out until I checked the park map a minute ago and realized it's still there; however, before I scrapped my initial reply, I was thinking the Dinos Alive plot would be a much better fit than the Rapids plot for a new coaster (because again, at the time I was under the misconception the land was already empty). Still, between the prospects of the two plots of land, I'd much rather see something built on the Dinos Alive plot to balance out the park a little bit. Dinos Alive has been going extinct all around the chain and I only expect to see it go very soon from Carowinds. This is possibly already a common observation (again, I haven't been following as much as I used to) but Dino's Alive has run a six year life at all the parks where it has closed (2011-2017 CP, 2012-2018 the rest) and with VF/WoF/Carowinds all having been the last built in 2013 I could see the rest of them closing at the end of this year.

 

I don't want to say it because I feel it's too much speculation, but I think I (maybe?) remember reading something about how Dinos Alive was supposedly only a six-year contract for Cedar Fair, but I really wouldn't know anymore if I had read that somewhere reliable or if I'm just imagining it. Anyone know, just out of curiosity?

 

I'm a little disappointed Carowinds is removing their rapids ride as I'm a big fan of those rides, and initially was imaging there was enough space on that plot to build ride ala-Mystic TImbers over it, but realized this was unlikely after a look on Google Maps. I am at least excited to see what will come. Personally, I hope it's some sort of water attraction to help retain a balance of water rides in the park, especially one that can get so hot.

 

As for if a new wooden coaster comes to Carowinds, I hope it's a GCI. GCI may not make enthusiasts' ideal rides, but I've never gotten off one and not thought it was a lot of fun. Their recent work Cedar Fair has been particularly exceptional, however; if you have not gotten out to ride new Ghostrider or Mystic Timbers you should. They both felt surprisingly out of control and a lot more fast/intense than any other GCI and might even be two of my favorite traditional woodies ever. I hear Gold Striker is very good too, but I have not made it out there yet.

 

This is one of those rare cases where I'd even prefer a GCI to a ground-up RMC as I've always thought what makes Carowinds lineup feel incomplete is it's lack of a decent wooden coaster after Thunder Run left, especially in contrast to the other Cedar Fair parks (Canada's Wonderland is the same way; Cedar Point I make an exception). Considering the smaller parks got GCI's years ago, this bothers me. Carowinds still has that POS Hurler they can RMC in the future.

Edited April 23, 2019 by RollerManic

[yawetag]

Dinos Alive has been going extinct all around the chain and I only expect to see it go very soon from Carowinds. This is possibly already a common observation (again, I haven't been following as much as I used to) but Dino's Alive has run a six year life at all the parks where it has closed (2011-2017 CP, 2012-2018 the rest) and with VF/WoF/Carowinds all having been the last built in 2013 I could see the rest of them closing at the end of this year.

They definitely are gone. From what I understand, it was a contracted 6-year attraction, which is up at Carowinds this year.

[yawetag]

I don't know why people expect them to remove a reasonably-popular and reliable coaster that they probably have tons of spare parts for

My argument for removing it is that it's not a popular ride. And, spare parts won't help much if they convert to floorless.

 

With all of what I've said, I really couldn't care less what they do with Vortex. With the nearby rapids plot opening, it would allow some extra room for whatever goes in Rapids to have some space across the walkpath to play with. The wing coaster idea is simply a wish and my idea of making that section of the park work with the already-existing land to thrill both riders and people walking by - just as Fury does with its over-and-under at the entrance.

[coasterbill]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they don't convert it (admittedly I wouldn't be shocked if they did either). Like you said, the other conversions didn't do much for ridership. Rougarou's ridership did improve after the conversion but only slightly. I'm sure they expected a much bigger bump. Honestly they might as well just leave it as-is.

[JJLehto]

Im kind of excited to ride it solely for the uniqueness. Ya just don't see standers much/anymore and for reasons I get. Only been on two.

[Intamin_coyote]

The reason that an old, clunky B&M would stick around for a time longer is the same reason why old and clunky Arrows have stuck around this long (and will continue to do so).

 

Love em' or hate em' - they're workhorses.

 

]

Rip out Vortex

 

Why would they do that?

 

Because the ride is too short (which was a complaint in 1992) and I don't think adding a different train type will build enough demand to be worth it.

 

But Patriot/Vortex is even shorter (by a little) and that didn't stop them from converting it to floorless.

 

Carowinds' Vortex might get converted some day it might not. Either way, I don't think its going bye bye anytime soon.

 

EDIT: And as a side note, I'm curious as to how much these floorless conversions cost. Any ideas?

[operative_me]

Visited Carowinds for the 1st time last week, 4/15-4/17. When I was a kid we passed this place many times on vacation, but never stopped in. We had Cedar Point so why bother? Lol. Left Cleveland on Monday morning with the temp a balmy 39 degrees. By the time we entered NC we were peeling off layers off clothes, it was good to be in the sun.

 

Stayed at the Motel 6 right across the street from the park. It was adequate, it was a Motel 6. Only real complaint was the keycards. I don't know if the place was built on an Indian graveyard or what but the damn cards would stop working constantly. They gave you a speech on check in to keep the keys away from phones, electronics, the remote to your car, peanut brittle, air. No matter what you did, they would stop working. They had lines of people coming to get new keys throughout my stay. It was kinda of funny.

 

Went to the park on Monday about 6pm, and the park was starting to empty. I was able to get on Intimidator, Fury and a few other rides. Basically knocked out a lot of the must rides in the first couple of hours, setting up Tuesday to be a very relaxed day. At about 9:30 I wandered over to Copperhead Strike, the app said a 40 minute wait, but the host at the entrance said it was a walk on. Was able to get 4 rides in before closing, so all in all a good night.

 

Tuesday the park was busy during the day, but like Monday started to empty out around 6pm. I was able to knock out the remaining coasters pretty easy, and start getting re-rides on the ones I liked.

 

Wednesday I went into the park a little before 10am just to get a few more rides on Fury before rolling back to the hotel to check out (and pick up my girlfriend, she was sleeping in). Fury didn't open until 10:30 but I was able to get 2 rides in before having to leave. It was the first time I got to ride a coaster on my birthday, which was pretty cool. After that we hit the road, wandering west to Mt Mitchell, Hot Springs, and Cherokee over the next couple of days, before we hit up Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge and Dollywood. Overall I enjoyed Carowinds quite a bit, once I got used to the layout it was pretty easy to navigate. I'll definitely try to visit again, hopefully during a time when the water park is open.

 

A few thoughts on the rides:

Nighthawk - Got to ride this right after it opened, so only a 20 minute wait with the atrocious dispatch times that come with a Flying Dutchman. I liked it better than Firehawk, particularly it's location above water.

 

Vortex - Brought back the fun memories of Mantis, as in the slow dispatches and the method of making you sterile. It's an ok ride. Since it was mentioned in above posts, making this a floorless would improve the ride, but not sure CF got the ROI they wanted on Rougaroux.

 

Carolina Cyclone - Better than Corkscrew at CP, but still feels like an Arrow Looper.

 

Ricochet - Cool Wild Mouse ride. A lot of fun if you can avoid a long line.

 

Afterburn - A lot of fun. I liked the way it interacted with the terrain, and there was no MCBR to slow things down. Wish it was longer. I've been on 4 B&M inverts (Raptor, Banshee, Talon) and have enjoyed them all.

 

Intimidator - This was a surprise. The dispatches were efficient, the drop is good and has some decent moments of airtime. A headliner at most parks.

 

Hurler - Meh. I didn't find it rough like some stated (I grew up with Mean Streak), it just didn't excite me. Was down all day Tuesday so only got on ride Monday.

 

The Flying Cobras - Only reason I mention this is that I rode it in it's inaugural season as Mind Eraser at Geauga Lake. Nice nostalgia, but still a Boomerang. Didn't seem too rough.

 

Carolina Goldrusher - Not a bad ride at all. Good for families. Ron Toomer liked to build the same rides over and over didn't he?

 

Copperhead Strike - Got to marathon this a bit towards closing at the end of each night. This ride is a home run. I know some thought it was slow in the POV, but it's like watching auto racing on TV. It doesn't seem fast watching from home, but go to a race and those cars zip by so fast it's insane. The launches aren't particularly powerful but do the job. The dangles on the loops are a lot of fun. The jojo roll WILL empty your pockets right out the gate so be careful. It's also got some nice theming and a nice little pre-launch scene. Was very happy to get as many rides as I did on it, it's a hell of a lot of fun, and the crew were busting their a$$es to get trains out.

 

Fury 325 - I've been waiting 4 years to ride this. First rides were at night, and there were a lot of planes coming in to land at the airport, so it felt as if you were climbing up to their level on the first hill. My favorite ride was sitting in the back seat on my 2nd ride, it really whips you over the lift hill. I won't go into detail because what am I going to write that hasn't already been written? My 2nd giga and just as fun as my first. Fury alone is worth a trip back.

 

Only real regret from the trip is not trying the gliders, but they had a pretty long line throughout the day and when that finally died down CS was basically a walk on. The CS marathon won over.

 

Overall a great experience, great weather, and a good start to a week long trip down south.

[RollerManic]

I always forget this park has Intimidator . Thanks for the write-up. Making me excited for my first trip this summer.

 

Everyone says Fury is just that good - I interpret from your writing it lived up to all your expectations? What other giga have you ridden?

[operative_me]

You'll love it. Fury defintely lives up to the hype. What 300+ ft coaster that goes 90+ mph doesn't? Oh wait some think Millennium Force sucks lol. Which is the other giga I've been on. Both are great rides.

 

Also awesome: they sell beer 24 hrs in South Carolina, and fireworks are plentiful and cheap.

[coasterbill]

Only real regret from the trip is not trying the gliders, but they had a pretty long line throughout the day and when that finally died down CS was basically a walk on.

 

The Carowinds flyers might just be the most overrated thing in all of theme park dorkdom. You made the right call riding a coaster instead.

[prozach626]

You'll love it. Fury defintely lives up to the hype. What 300+ ft coaster that goes 90+ mph doesn't? Oh wait some think Millennium Force sucks lol. Which is the other giga I've been on. Both are great rides.

 

And most of those people are one of the reasons I only communicate with a few unlucky enthusiasts outside of these forums.