MSNBC Article - Six jeers for Six Flags

[mrhambone]

Howdy -

 

Just read this article on the MSNBC website -

 

Six Jeers For Six Flags

 

 

Anybody agree or disagree? Or do you think this guy is totally nuts?

[Jonathan]

Not nuts at all. I don't like his Disney comparison; there's no need for that. However, every problem he pointed out is something that I think all of us have experienced at a Six Flags park. The only exception that I took was the security part. I couldn't possibly disagree with him more there. When I go to an amusement park I don't want it to be like an airport. One of the most refreshing things for me at an amusement park comes when I approach the entrance and see that there are no metal detectors.

 

The most damning part of his story was his experience with the broken fence in the Mind Eraser queue (here are his photos if you didn't catch it http://www.travelswithfred.smugmug.com/gallery/3181313#175076680). I wish I could say I was surprised. Of course, he could also claim employee neglect in the fact that they apparently didn't mind him taking his camera on the rides.

[DCody]

I agree with some of his points, even though I've been enjoying Six Flags parks since I was in diapers. Yeah, the Disney comparison is totally unwarranted, but the Six Flags experience overall can be chaotic, crowded and (depending on the park) dirty. And you ain't gonna get your ass kissed by the staff.

 

Put it this way: There are certain parks are so pleasant and attractive that they hold up even if you don't take the rides into account. But I only go to Six Flags for the rockin' coasters; I wouldn't enjoy myself there otherwise because the ambiance and customer service are lacking. I can imagine it sucks even more for the less-informed GP.

 

That being said, the rides are still totally worth it for me.

[kewlcoasterdude]

Lets be honest with ourselves here. The only reason this article exist is because of Shapiro being a man with many friends in the higher up. Six Flags is hardly worthy of being compared to Disney. LOL

[ginzo]

This guy is a bit of a fruitcake; worrying about a deadly unattended backpack and all. MSN is pretty much the armpit of Interweb news. This article is typical of the lazy journalism featured on MSN.

 

That being said, he does have some pretty valid complaints, but nothing everybody here hasn't already experienced first hand. The comparison to Disney is so disingenuous. Six Flags gives away the gate with their season passes, Disney does not. The cost is hardly the same. Not to mention the fact that he would have to pay to travel to Orlando to visit Disney.

[Airtime&Gravity]

Now I know it was an opinion column, but why the hell would you compare Six Flags America(of all SF parks, why SFA!?) to Disney? Of course a Six Flags park will not be as nice as Disney World, so why compare the rides and overall experience to it? Now there were probably valid points for the cleanliness of the park, but that is about the only respectable part of the article. Also since it was MSNBC, they had to bring terrorism into it and go on about an unattended backpack that could have had a bomb in it even though it went through security.

[larrygator]

The only reason this article exist is because of Shapiro being a man with many friends in the higher up.

 

Please explain this illogical comment!

[ginzo]

The only reason this article exist is because of Shapiro being a man with many friends in the higher up.

 

Please explain this illogical comment!

 

Maybe he missed the "six jeers" part and assumed it was some nice little puff piece that Shapiro pulled some strings to have MSN write.

 

This article still amazes me with the guy trying to equate Six Flags gate prices to Disney gate prices. Who travels from MD to Orlando and hits one Disney park for one day? My Six Flags pass was like $60, and it gives me unlimited access to ALL Six Flags parks for 2007. Could you even imagine the cost of an equivalent pass for Disney? Better cash in some of that home equity.

[kewlcoasterdude]

Are you serious? lol

Do you understand that biased articles are written all the time because of relationships between people. Shapiro, no doubt has friends at msn and that could be why this rediculous article was written. Do you understand that concept of biased article? If someone isnt a fan of Howard Stern, they will say Sirius is not doing well. A fan or friend of Sterns will write an article claiming they are exceeding expectations. Do you understand yet?

[ginzo]

Are you serious? lol

Do you understand that biased articles are written all the time because of relationships between people. Shapiro, no doubt has friends at msn and that could be why this rediculous article was written. Do you understand that concept of biased article? If someone isnt a fan of Howard Stern, they will say Sirius is not doing well. A fan or friend of Sterns will write an article claiming they are exceeding expectations. Do you understand yet?

 

Had you bothered to read the article you would know that it is not laudatory.

[kewlcoasterdude]

Well, I disagree with you, but I do give you credit for busty out the word "laudatory!" Very nice vocab. you have:)

[ginzo]

Well, I disagree with you, but I do give you credit for busty out the word "laudatory!" Very nice vocab. you have:)

 

Shapiro must really have some sweet connections to get an article written that says one of his parks is dirty, overpriced, insecure, and staffed by lazy, indifferent employees.

 

[Airtime&Gravity]

When it comes to prices, what did he expect? Six Flags is not Knoebels, and while it is more expensive to visit a SF park than a CF park, Six Flags seems to give a better experience since the new ownership. Disney and Six Flags have high prices because some family has been looking to the trip for months, and the parents don't want to upset their kids by not going when they find out the price. The writer said admission to a Disney park was $^&(I thought it was about $75), and Disney could charge $100 and people would still visit, but SF is around its limit. While families from Iowa going to Disney World will shell out their life savings, they will also spend a lot when they go to Six Flags. The family will still have a good time, and while not a Disney experience, their visit will probably be a lot of fun. I really have to wonder what the writer would like to see at Six Flags since he seemed upset that there was no hundred million dollar prototype attraction like Disney has. Seriously, Six Flags and Disney provide two entirely different experiences. Both companies have to make money, and when he has to pay for a trip that is not up to Disney standards, he goes on a long rant. Now, there is nothing wrong with having a good time, but the writer seemed so focused on every bad detail.(well it is the media after all) Sure SF could lower admission prices, but SF needs a lot of money to get out of debt. Coming from one of the best SF parks, the admission seems just a little high, but if the other parks are brought up to SFGAM standards, then SF will not seem so overpriced as a whole.

[RaptorBoyASU]

Such amazing analysis in here.........

[rileybrands]

These employees are the face of Six Flags.

 

Now why does he have to go and extrapolate from his experiences that a lesser-known, inferior Six Flags park is on par with, and indicative of the caliber of the whole chain? I'm not trying to deprecate the park. I really like it, but I think everyone agrees it's not the best park in the chain.

 

Also, I think SF has made great strides in the effort to regain customer loyalty. I was just at SFFT and the ride ops were perky (to the extent of being annoying...), operations were efficient, all major rides were operational (unless you consider Frisbee a major ride), and the whole ambience seemed so much more relaxed and upbeat than I remember. The ride ops lightened up their safety schpiels and made everyone feel at ease. No monotonous droning this time! Good job SF! Now I can't WAIT to get to one of your next parks, because I know this is EXACTLY how it will be!

[hemmy]

Disney: Most overrated park chain ever.

 

I would rather go to many Six Flags parks over a Disney park.

[Meteornotes]

Nothing surprising in that article. Shocking revelation that SFA has crappy food and worse employees. And I think we all know that park security at the front gates are far more concerned that guests are not bringing in outside food/drink as opposed to a backpack nuke, so that's hardly an amazing new byte.

 

Clean, Safe, Fun?!? Not yet. You have a long way to go, Six Flags...

 

dt

[almightyfire]

I totally agree with the article. I have recently bought a considerable amount of Six Flags stock and I totally agree with this guy. I am an ex employee of Six Flags 25 yrs ago and things were run differently. No employee could be caught walking past a piece of paper and not pick it up. If you were seen walkng past paper, no matter what department you were in, you got written up if you didnt pick it up. We had a certain time to load and unload. That is what that turnstile was for to make sure that so many people went through that ride within that hour and we had to call on the hr to give the number off the stile. Security was present as if President Bush himself was in the park. Now that is why my tolerance level is low for most parks because I have worked in one where the rules were strict. I was only making $3.10 an hour and I was a foreman, but work ethics were different then. Our hometraining plus the expectations of the establishment made the park run efficiently. Now the food sucks at all parks that I have visited but who goes to a park for the burgers? People have to realize that business have a tendancy to concentrate on makng money for the shareholders and not satisfying their patrons. I think that Six Flags needs to be turned over to a THEME/THRILL PARK enthusiast because they would know first hand on what should or shouldnt be done. I could run SF efficiently in 2 weeks by just changing the attitudes of the employees and go back to the rules that were in effect when I was an employee. Each ride should have an adult in charge over 25, not a 16yr old who has all of his friends on staff and they just play all day and not hustle. It is just a lot of ideas that would work if they were put inplace.

 

Last year I went to SFOT and there was a 3 train operation on the TEXAS GIANT and the park was empty. The line was rather long and I could see stacking to the utmost. When i got to the loading station I noticed all of the employees were standing around the ride operator playing and people were stuck in their cars and couldnt get out so I hollared "stop playing and do your jobs". After I got off I went and found an operations supervisor and told her that I had driven 4 hrs just to ride the TEXAS GIANT and that I should be able to ride it as many times as I wanted without a wait. I told her the problem is that too many kids on that ride had made friends with each other and that they werent doing their jobs. I told her that Six Flags would have never allowed this when i was working and that she needs to go up their and break that crew apart and put them all on different rides. She thanked me and I went and rode other things. One hr later i walked by and the line was non existant so I got on when i got up their, there was a different ride operator and 4 loaders that were from different backgrounds "if u know what I mean" and they were on point. It appeared that they didnt even know each other. Now i know that it wont be long before the gelled and became friends also but my point was made. Six flags has gone to pot and it can be saved but it still appears that Mr Shapiro is a business man first then a theme park lover last. It should be the other way around and then it will all come together.

 

GET IT TOGETHER MR SHAPIRO BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW SIX FLAGS GOT LOST.

 

IT CAN BE SAVED!

[lapseofreason]

^What a good post. Honestly (I don't know if it is good or not) this reminded me of the movie "Rollercoaster"... upon opening of Revolution at SFMM, all the ride ops were happy, enthusiastic to help guests, pointing everyone in the right direction...

 

Although every time we go to SFMM my husband compares it to Disneyland (I still haven't been yet), I think the article was very informative, and repetitive of what I have seen at, at least, SFMM: slow operations, garbage full in the cans, talking with friends, etc.

 

Also, I viewed the article from the POV of someone who has worked in customer service, and from that note, I can see where this guy is coming from. In conjunction with the post I just mentioned, does anyone have any PRIDE for their jobs anymore? Wouldn't it be cool to share the enthusiasm of someone who has just this one day at the park, to secure their harness and wish them a fun ride? Shouldn't you be proud to represent the place where you spend most of your day, regardless of whether you are making minimum wage or not? What if you see a large family wondering where the nearest bathroom is? What if you see a large group of tourists shuffling around, trying to get photos of one another... how cool would it make their day to have you stop and ask them if they would like a group photo?

 

I hate to ramble, and maybe I'm dreaming... I wholeheartedly agree, IMHO, if SF wants to make a bigger profit they need to a) fire everyone that sucks and b) focus on more people-oriented, enthusiastic employees. I know it is hard on minimum wage, but... wow, can you imagine? I was blown away a few weeks ago when the dude on Log Jammer at SFMM told me to enjoy my ride... and the guy before the last drop waved "bye-bye" a la Looney Tunes! If that continues, then... I'm sold.

 

I know the last few sentences may sound long-winded and drag on, but... I wanted to voice my opinion.

[Little Coaster Girl]

And I think we all know that park security at the front gates are far more concerned that guests are not bringing in outside food/drink as opposed to a backpack nuke

[Jonathan]

Now why does he have to go and extrapolate from his experiences that a lesser-known, inferior Six Flags park is on par with, and indicative of the caliber of the whole chain? I'm not trying to deprecate the park. I really like it, but I think everyone agrees it's not the best park in the chain.

 

Because that is how the vast majority of people see it. People who live in that area don't say "Let's go to Six Flags America!" They say "Let's go to Six Flags!" All enthusiasts may agree that it isn't the best park in the chain, but the average person doesn't know that at all. Many likely think Six Flags parks are almost the same, and some probably aren't even aware there is another Six Flags park aside from the one they live near.

[Medusa1861]

I woudl have to totally disagree with this article 100% Compare Six Flags to Disney.. HA!

A better comparison is Six Flags to any Fast-food chain. I'm an employee at 2 of them and i won't mention which. But i believe the attitude is the same. To the employees.. We get paid a low wage and therefore..why try harder.. It's really a "dead end job" or "i'm only going to be here for this season"

The comparisonI Six Flags and any fast food chain knows that it's customers come here for.. convenience, it's cheap (they all have Season passes because it's nearby) , The customer gets what they want (food or rides), and no matter how bad you treat the customer, most will come back.

Now you may disagree with the last statement, but having worked at fast food for years, i know this. So many times i've heard "I'm never coming back" and yet.. I see them the next day, or "Every time i come here you always make it wrong". Well, if we always make it wrong, why do you still come?

I see it the same with Six Flags, I get fed up with Six Flags with the rudeness and i'm like, I'm not going to go next summer, But i always do. The reason.. "big thrills" just minutes away. There's no other offer.

 

The author writes that "The ride operators all seemed bored. Well, OK, it is probably boring work, but it is also is your job, so perk up for heaven's sake." My response to that is "pay me more, or at least give me a reason to" I know that they all get paid near minimum wage, tehre's no reason to. Yes, ideally you would want to go to a park and have everyone happy, But it's just not going to happen.

 

I also think he was over-reactive about the missing fence posts. Yeah, i do see that it is potential for something to happen. But i'm sure the ride operators knew that it was there, and honestly, can't do anything about it, they're just ride operators. They most likely reported it and it takes awhile for stuff like that to get fixed.

The backpack thing was just rediculous. If someone came up to me and told me "there's an unattended backpack over there..." I would be thinking "you're kidding me.. you're worried about a backpack.. I'm not going to go and pick up a backpack that someone is probably just leaving there while he's either going to the bathroom or getting in line" even if he may think it contains a bomb.. he already knows that the security guards at the front gate check all bags even if it doesn't make the metal detector go off.

 

I'm also kind of sick of hearing those stories from the older folk, "when I was your age... I worked so much harder than these kids today, things were done so much better and there were no problems, kids today just don't have any discipline anymore" Well, I live in New Jersey, and my Six Flags park i have heard used to be worse than it is now. I've heard all the stories about violence in the park and stories of disrepair.

 

His little story about how he would never be caught walking by a piece of paper on the ground without picking it up. Most of the garbage I might see on the ground are food wraps. I believe in sanitation before anything else. If i'm on my way to go to my ride or any other duty, I would also, not pick it up. I'm not going to pick it up and get someone's left-over ketchup on my hands with no way of cleaning it up besides going to the bathroom which will add on another 5 minutes to my trip. I'm also not even sure if it's policy to do that. After many visits to any park, i have never seen any employee pick up trash with their bare hands. It's always with those poking sticks, broom and dustpan, or the long extension gripper. Even if it is much easier for the employee to just pick it up, the employee will clean it up, what i assume is the "correct way".

 

I feel that people "these days" just want too much bang for their buck. The arguement is always "I want Six Flags to be just like Disney, or "I want Six Flags employees to go very fast, be friendly, and always have a smile on" Sometimes you just have to accept that Six Flags may actually be doing the best they can with what they have. They can't afford to be paying it's employees enough to make it a job in which they can layoff an employee or not being happy or friendly enough because finding a replacement is too hard, no one wants the job.

 

Maybe everyone can just admit it, that maybe, just maybe the employees are human just like you and me. I've seen employees just "almost" lash out at customers for just, making them mad. For example, now that Six Flags screens all the photos before they post them on the hoto booth, it takes awhile. So many people were just like.. When does my photo show up. At first he was like, I'm sorry, I'm unsure, it will come up eventually, I have no control over this" And they kept on nagging him "my photos stilla ren't up" then he was just said in an annoyed voise "well magically they will just appear". I saw people got mad at him, but i saw zero reason why.

 

Ok, I'm sorry for my rant.

[SFGAm Shock Wave]

^ Picking up trash is still a policy at all Six Flags parks. "Don't Pass it up, Pick it up".

 

Regarding low wage as an excuse for slow operations and bad attitudes, not a valid excuse at all. They were told what they would be payed when they were hired. If they are not willing to WORK for that wage, then they should just go home.

 

The fence issue is bad. The author exaggerated greatly, that definitely isn't a 6 foot gap, but still, the employees should have taken action. It wouldn't even have been that hard. Just move a couple garbage cans in front of it until maintenance can fix it.

[hemmy]

^ Picking up trash is still a policy at all Six Flags parks. "Don't Pass it up, Pick it up".

 

Regarding low wage as an excuse for slow operations and bad attitudes, not a valid excuse at all. They were told what they would be payed when they were hired. If they are not willing to WORK for that wage, then they should just go home.

 

The fence issue is bad. The author exaggerated greatly, that definitely isn't a 6 foot gap, but still, the employees should have taken action. It wouldn't even have been that hard. Just move a couple garbage cans in front of it until maintenance can fix it.

 

Well seeing as how the author said all their garbage cans were overflowing maybe they were too heavy to move?

 

1 reason I love Cedar Fair is its abundance of trash cans. Even at Disney I come by my fair share of full bins.

[XanderLee]

The author writes that "The ride operators all seemed bored. Well, OK, it is probably boring work, but it is also is your job, so perk up for heaven's sake." My response to that is "pay me more, or at least give me a reason to" I know that they all get paid near minimum wage, there's no reason to. Yes, ideally you would want to go to a park and have everyone happy, But it's just not going to happen.

 

You would need a reason to do something that you were hired to do? Isn't the fact that it is your job enough? If you're in it for the money then you're in it for the wrong reason. Time to move on.

 

I also think he was over-reactive about the missing fence posts. Yeah, i do see that it is potential for something to happen. But i'm sure the ride operators knew that it was there, and honestly, can't do anything about it, they're just ride operators. They most likely reported it and it takes awhile for stuff like that to get fixed.

 

I have shut a ride down for lesser things than that. I'm not going to take the chance that some little kid, or even someone clowning around (after all, the Guests are there to have fun, not to think) might get injured or even die.

 

The backpack thing was just rediculous. If someone came up to me and told me "there's an unattended backpack over there..." I would be thinking "you're kidding me.. you're worried about a backpack.. I'm not going to go and pick up a backpack that someone is probably just leaving there while he's either going to the bathroom or getting in line" even if he may think it contains a bomb.. he already knows that the security guards at the front gate check all bags even if it doesn't make the metal detector go off.

 

Even if the backpack wasn't taken as a security issue, a security guard should have at least taken it to security as a lost article. Hello. It was there for over an hour. If you forgot a bag wouldn't you like it to be in the hands of security instead of some random dishonest guest?

 

That also leaves the possibility that it was stolen from a ride dock while someone was riding and discarded once someone was done taking the items of value. I'm sure the guest would like to know that they did locate their bag, even though their items of value were gone.

 

His little story about how he would never be caught walking by a piece of paper on the ground without picking it up. Most of the garbage I might see on the ground are food wraps. I believe in sanitation before anything else. If i'm on my way to go to my ride or any other duty, I would also, not pick it up. I'm not going to pick it up and get someone's left-over ketchup on my hands with no way of cleaning it up besides going to the bathroom which will add on another 5 minutes to my trip. I'm also not even sure if it's policy to do that. After many visits to any park, i have never seen any employee pick up trash with their bare hands. It's always with those poking sticks, broom and dustpan, or the long extension gripper. Even if it is much easier for the employee to just pick it up, the employee will clean it up, what i assume is the "correct way".

 

It absolutely is a policy to do that. And you absolutely would do that if you were working in a theme park. If you have a problem with touching trash that's fine, but you would be expected to figure out a way to not pass up trash.

 

The reader above is correct..."Don't pass it up, pick it up."

 

I feel that people "these days" just want too much bang for their buck. The arguement is always "I want Six Flags to be just like Disney, or "I want Six Flags employees to go very fast, be friendly, and always have a smile on" Sometimes you just have to accept that Six Flags may actually be doing the best they can with what they have. They can't afford to be paying it's employees enough to make it a job in which they can layoff an employee or not being happy or friendly enough because finding a replacement is too hard, no one wants the job.

 

It's time to drop the excuses. Put up or shut up. There is always someone who is willing to do the job. It's just a matter of hiring, training, and enforcing.

 

 

 

Anyhow. I debated with myself if I even wanted to read this article because they usually just get me down. I think the author made some very valid points.