Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[ZeroGravity55]

^^ He's right. Just using this as an example, but the number of infrastructure improvements made by HW in the past two seasons should have probably been a sign that a new coaster was coming. They expanded their waterpark entrance, built a huge new first aid building, upgraded their locker systems, added a new restaurant, built a new retail shop, added more bathrooms, and have been making parking lot improvements. All of this came before announcing a brand new roller coaster for next season. All of these improvements are going to allow them to be able to have an increased guest count and allows them to continue and offer a great guest experience. Guest experience is the key word here. You can add all the high thrill attractions you want, but if all the things around that attraction bring the guest experience down, nobody will come back to ride that attraction. Remember it's just one ride. While I'm not familiar with VF, if all of these improvements need to be made to the park, they must be made before or when the coaster is built.

Edited October 31, 2014 by ZeroGravity55

[RCF]

 

I realize you are young and do not realize how a business works. You have to have the facilities to manage larger crowds that a larger cap would bring in - at this point in the game, Valleyfair does not have that. IF you build a large cap coaster before said improvements are made, then the crowds will end up being a flash in the dark for a season or two and then will drop back to where they were before making the ROI non-existent and will make the next large cap take that much longer to appear. Not what enthusiasts want to hear as they would love their park to do the Six Flags Worlds of Adventure (Ohio) expansion model where 2-3 coasters are added every year. We all know where that got Geauga Lake.

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is Valleyfair, not Cedar Point. You don't NEED a new coaster at this time. You will get one in the near future but it is not NEEDED like some of you younger fan boys keep spouting off.

You stated yourself they are already doing a waterpark expansion and fixed some of the major walkways for better crowd flow. They are in the process of all you have stated and a coaster in no way would hinder that. They could completely change a dead end with a new coaster. They could add new restrooms with a new coaster. They could cover most of these by the time the new coaster comes around. All of this will take years to finish anyway, so why not add a coaster with all of this? To the GP eyes, they will see a new coaster with inversions a reason to go to Valleyfair. They wont be willing to go again for wider walkways and better restrooms. They would want to STAY because of that for a better overall experience. Yes, they are also needed. However, so is a coaster.

 

Besides, major flat rides would take a few years to get a nice collection for Valleyfair. It again states my point of why not add a coaster if the funds are there for it and it would bring in the GP. There's no way one inverting coaster when the last major coaster was five years ago, and the last inverting coaster was back in the 80's. We are not getting a new major coaster every two or so years like other Cedar Fair parks. For this park, one major inverting coaster can't possibly hurt a thing.

[valleyfairfanatic]

He is right in some aspects ^ I'm really wondering what those cones in the parking lot meant though, they might reappear this Saturday in a bigger area of the parking lot if this pattern continues.

[WarpedHorizon]

Man you guys get up in arms fast. Take a chill pill. You have no right to panic about an amusement park unless you have undeniable signs that the management is making poor decisions- and having met Dave Frasier I know that the management has a plan, and is on the right track. I've said it before, and I'll say it again- we can trust Dave Frasier, and we can trust Matt Ouimet. Unfortunately poor money-first management in the past has dug them quite the hole to pull the park out of, so rebuilding around a guest-first model will take a few years. It is Dave's goal to make 2016, Valleyfair's 40th anniversary, as special as possible. And a coaster would be the perfect thing- if Cedar Fair will pay. A new coaster means more Guests, more Season Ticket Holders, and more Group Sales, all of which mean more money in the future to solve other problems. VF has more guest capacity to spare than most other parks- especially Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Canada's Wonderland. A new ride here make as much, if not more, fiscal sense than a new ride there. We can grow a lot faster, and easier, than they can. The management has a plan, and when we look back in 10 years I believe we will all recognize that the decisions they made were right.

 

And in reply to CaliforniaPinto:

 

1. Upgraded restrooms [The brand new bathrooms in Picnic Point are no better than anywhere else in the park. Easy-to-clean outdoor bathrooms will always be ugly. But hey- at least they're kept clean]

2. Expanded (beyond what is even being added for 2015) waterpark [i'm confident it's planned already. They're just forced to take one step at a time]

3. Modern flat rides. [Expect them soon. Again, one step at a time. The current fleet is aging, but holding together]

4. Expanded menu options (up to and including another sit down restaurant) [Yeah, cheaper/better/more food should be considered. The improvements seen at Carowinds will probably be seen here soon]

5. More efficient workers in food services. [it's because of the long hours, low pay, number of visa employees, and stressed management. The quality ones get sent to rides, the bad sent to foods]

6. Better guest flow in major corridors (some has been taken care of already) [A work in progress. VF's guest flow is no worse than Magic Kingdom]

7. Removal of "dead" areas of the park and/or unused facilities. [Another work in progress. The front of the park has been transformed, expect similar changes in due time]

 

I hope this doesn't come across as angry. All I intend to do is remind you that we have no control, and panicking about it isn't helping anyone. Life is short. Getting angry on the internet, especially about things you have no control over, isn't worth your time. Now can we return to our regularly scheduled Haunt chat?

[VF15]

^

Thank you. These arguments we've been having on the past few pages are pretty dumb. Most of these problems listed can be found in many other parks and they've done just fine, so why is Valleyfair instantly the one big exception? Also, to those of you that said that Valleyfair doesn't need a coaster, isn't saying that we don't need one at all a bit extreme, especially considering that VF has been waiting for a thrilling coaster longer than any other CF park (this includes relocated coasters)?

[Fingers]

^ Please reread the posts of people who are saying you guys don't need a coaster. No one is saying you don't need one at all, the opposing view point is that a coaster is not your number one need. The opposing view is also not saying you won't be getting a coaster, we all know that you guys will get a new coaster soon (within 3 years probably) because you guys have had a drought and have been fixing up your park. The whole argument of we need _____ because we haven't got one in awhile is getting really annoying. You guys have a great coaster lineup for your park size. Don't expect to get massive investments because right meow your park doesn't have a big enough costume base.

[Coasterguy21]

There's a difference between people wanting the park to build a new coaster and the park needing a new coaster to be built.

 

Eventually major capital will be added, but that is not something you want to rush (technically, the capital added over the past two years is major). Not until you can predict how much of an ROI you could get on the new attraction. Even then, a new coaster doesn't necessarily translate to something big. It could be a Gerstlauer for all we know.

 

Michigan's Adventure is a case in point, adds a relocated coaster in 2007, still riding high on it. People claim the park needs a new coaster, but that's not the case, they just want it. Eventually they will build one, but why build one when you're still "riding the wave" so to speak.

[grsupercity]

There's a difference between people wanting the park to build a new coaster and the park needing a new coaster to be built.

 

Eventually major capital will be added, but that is not something you want to rush (technically, the capital added over the past two years is major). Not until you can predict how much of an ROI you could get on the new attraction. Even then, a new coaster doesn't necessarily translate to something big. It could be a Gerstlauer for all we know.

 

Michigan's Adventure is a case in point, adds a relocated coaster in 2007, still riding high on it. People claim the park needs a new coaster, but that's not the case, they just want it. Eventually they will build one, but why build one when you're still "riding the wave" so to speak.

 

People always say that MIA is the red headed step child of Cedar Fair, but i have seen Cedar Fair paint everything. Make everything look new. Solve the water tower issues, add phones to every ride, add a sit down restaurant, a rapids ride, a funnel slide, new kids area, clean up the games area, rip cord, scooters,and a SLC. SO many new trees and a second train station. Anyone who had been to the park in the late 90's, then see it now can see a huge improvement!

[RCjunkie]

VF has many needs like most parks but a coaster is now #1 on the list if CF wants to really increase attendance.

 

Not sure if you are being serious here, but in case you are - the #1 need is not a rollercoaster at this time.

 

A list of needs in no specific order.

1. Upgraded restrooms

2. Expanded (beyond what is even being added for 2015) waterpark

3. Modern flat rides.

4. Expanded menu options (up to and including another sit down restaurant)

5. More efficient workers in food services.

6. Better guest flow in major corridors (some has been taken care of already)

7. Removal of "dead" areas of the park and/or unused facilities.

 

Are you serious? Everything you listed except more flats rides or water park expansion can be done during one 'General Improvement' year when the park does not add a new attraction. They did not add one of the things you listed when they added Wild Thing and it moved the park past 1 million visitors in a year for the first time and they have never looked back. Not saying what you listed does not need to be addressed someday but it is NOT preventing the park from adding another coaster if it wants too.

"I'm going to go and get a season pass because of new bathrooms, restaurants, better guest flow, removal of dead areas and unused facilities." said no one EVER. And no marketing campaign to increase traffic at a park said, "Come see our new bathrooms!" or "Come check out our new guest traffic flow!" You think the 2 hour plus line waits at times for KI and SFGAm this year were due to new bathrooms and expanded menus? Nope. I have a hint for you, it was Goliath and Banshee that brought those crowds and not general improvements. Parks realize this. So much so they have even begun to revitalize older coasters like Texas Giant, Mantis and Colossus in the past few years because the remodeled coasters bring in the crowds just like new ones if done right. And what did Kentucky Kingdom do when it reopened this year to bring the crowds in? They added Lighting Run and have already told all their season pass holders that the former T2 roller coaster will indeed reopen in 2015 as “T3”. If VF wants to be a 'growth park' like CF has claimed them to be the best way to grow attendance is a new coaster now since it has been 9 years come 2016 since the last one was added.

[Fingers]

^Ah I see you are a fan of the magic mountain business model, screw customer service we need MORE COASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After reading your argument I can't believe a park would ever go a year without a coaster seeing how it attracts so many people and no one cares about how the rest of the park looks. People will come if they add a coaster but they won't return if they don't get the rest of the park looking better, mainly the back half.

[VF15]

facepalm...All of this arguing is starting to get pointless. I think we get it now that Valleyfair needs a few more general improvements to prepare for a big capital expenditure (all of these Improvements can probably be done within the next few years). Could we please move on to talking about something else?

[madsecar]

This is so stupid. If Valleyfair wants to add a new coaster to their line up, THEY WILL. All of you people saying that valleyfair needs more "traffic flow and better bathrooms" need to shutup and go away. It's ridiculous. The plans for 2016 are most likely already confirmed by Cedar Fair, so you posting on here isn't going to change the plans. Please, just stop arguing. It's pointless, and I've never seen some of you people post on this thread before, so there must be something wrong with your attitude or whatever. END OF DISCUSSION.

[RCF]

All of it is needed. Hands down. Where it got pointless is what needs to come first, reason why I stopped.

 

Besides that, any new construction updates with the webcam?

[VF15]

^

I checked the webcam earlier today and nothing has changed. It has looked this way for a while. They're probably just waiting until the park closes for the year to get on with construction.

[CaliforniaPinto]

This is so stupid. If Valleyfair wants to add a new coaster to their line up, THEY WILL. All of you people saying that valleyfair needs more "traffic flow and better bathrooms" need to shutup and go away. It's ridiculous. The plans for 2016 are most likely already confirmed by Cedar Fair, so you posting on here isn't going to change the plans. Please, just stop arguing. It's pointless, and I've never seen some of you people post on this thread before, so there must be something wrong with your attitude or whatever. END OF DISCUSSION.

 

Oh you told us.

 

Forgive us older posters who can get into Rated R movies without a parent for having a little more insight into the industry and how things work. We're not purposely trying to rain on your fan boy parades - just trying to help you keep a level headed expectations for the park.

[CaliforniaPinto]

Are you serious? Everything you listed except more flats rides or water park expansion can be done during one 'General Improvement' year when the park does not add a new attraction. They did not add one of the things you listed when they added Wild Thing and it moved the park past 1 million visitors in a year for the first time and they have never looked back. Not saying what you listed does not need to be addressed someday but it is NOT preventing the park from adding another coaster if it wants too.

 

"I'm going to go and get a season pass because of new bathrooms, restaurants, better guest flow, removal of dead areas and unused facilities." said no one EVER. And no marketing campaign to increase traffic at a park said, "Come see our new bathrooms!" or "Come check out our new guest traffic flow!" You think the 2 hour plus line waits at times for KI and SFGAm this year were due to new bathrooms and expanded menus? Nope. I have a hint for you, it was Goliath and Banshee that brought those crowds and not general improvements. Parks realize this. So much so they have even begun to revitalize older coasters like Texas Giant, Mantis and Colossus in the past few years because the remodeled coasters bring in the crowds just like new ones if done right. And what did Kentucky Kingdom do when it reopened this year to bring the crowds in? They added Lighting Run and have already told all their season pass holders that the former T2 roller coaster will indeed reopen in 2015 as “T3”. If VF wants to be a 'growth park' like CF has claimed them to be the best way to grow attendance is a new coaster now since it has been 9 years come 2016 since the last one was added.

 

I am assuming you are just trolling because no one can seriously be that stupid. I'm just going to cherry pick KI out of your argument because it is the only one you mentioned that is in the chain (and therefore the only one that has any merit in this conversation). KI did massive infrastructure upgrades in the areas that received Diamond Back and Banshee the year immediately before those coasters were added. WOF did the same thing with Patriot. Carowinds is doing the same thing with Fury. Canada's Wonderland did the same thing with Behemoth and Leviathan. Cedar Point did the same thing with Gate Keeper.

 

I think you are focusing solely on us saying that the new coaster is not coming on your timeline. It IS coming but the park has things that they HAVE to address before it comes.

[DanTheBooker]

Are you serious? Everything you listed except more flats rides or water park expansion can be done during one 'General Improvement' year when the park does not add a new attraction. They did not add one of the things you listed when they added Wild Thing and it moved the park past 1 million visitors in a year for the first time and they have never looked back. Not saying what you listed does not need to be addressed someday but it is NOT preventing the park from adding another coaster if it wants too.

 

"I'm going to go and get a season pass because of new bathrooms, restaurants, better guest flow, removal of dead areas and unused facilities." said no one EVER. And no marketing campaign to increase traffic at a park said, "Come see our new bathrooms!" or "Come check out our new guest traffic flow!" You think the 2 hour plus line waits at times for KI and SFGAm this year were due to new bathrooms and expanded menus? Nope. I have a hint for you, it was Goliath and Banshee that brought those crowds and not general improvements. Parks realize this. So much so they have even begun to revitalize older coasters like Texas Giant, Mantis and Colossus in the past few years because the remodeled coasters bring in the crowds just like new ones if done right. And what did Kentucky Kingdom do when it reopened this year to bring the crowds in? They added Lighting Run and have already told all their season pass holders that the former T2 roller coaster will indeed reopen in 2015 as “T3”. If VF wants to be a 'growth park' like CF has claimed them to be the best way to grow attendance is a new coaster now since it has been 9 years come 2016 since the last one was added.

 

I am assuming you are just trolling because no one can seriously be that stupid. I'm just going to cherry pick KI out of your argument because it is the only one you mentioned that is in the chain (and therefore the only one that has any merit in this conversation). KI did massive infrastructure upgrades in the areas that received Diamond Back and Banshee the year immediately before those coasters were added. WOF did the same thing with Patriot. Carowinds is doing the same thing with Fury. Canada's Wonderland did the same thing with Behemoth and Leviathan. Cedar Point did the same thing with Gate Keeper.

 

I think you are focusing solely on us saying that the new coaster is not coming on your timeline. It IS coming but the park has things that they HAVE to address before it comes.

 

Who's the troll? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, dude. He stated very valid points. if you disagree, fine. But to call him a troll is pretty harsh.

[RCjunkie]

^Ah I see you are a fan of the magic mountain business model, screw customer service we need MORE COASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After reading your argument I can't believe a park would ever go a year without a coaster seeing how it attracts so many people and no one cares about how the rest of the park looks. People will come if they add a coaster but they won't return if they don't get the rest of the park looking better, mainly the back half.

 

Never said screw customer service. You can add a coaster and improve customer service at the same time, you don't have to give up one for the other. A park would add a coaster every year if it made sense for ROI but it doesn't. No fan of VF is asking for a coaster every year, just one every 8-10 years would be nice. The back of the park is not perfect and can be improved but it is not bad enough to keep people away. It has been that way for years and VF has had no decrease in attendance so your your really overblowing how bad the back half of the park really is.

[grsupercity]

Never said screw customer service. You can add a coaster and improve customer service at the same time, you don't have to give up one for the other. A park would add a coaster every year if it made sense for ROI but it doesn't. No fan of VF is asking for a coaster every year, just one every 8-10 years would be nice. The back of the park is not perfect and can be improved but it is not bad enough to keep people away. It has been that way for years and VF has had no decrease in attendance so your your really overblowing how bad the back half of the park really is.

 

They have increased every year in attendance?

[RCjunkie]

I am assuming you are just trolling because no one can seriously be that stupid. I'm just going to cherry pick KI out of your argument because it is the only one you mentioned that is in the chain (and therefore the only one that has any merit in this conversation). KI did massive infrastructure upgrades in the areas that received Diamond Back and Banshee the year immediately before those coasters were added. WOF did the same thing with Patriot. Carowinds is doing the same thing with Fury. Canada's Wonderland did the same thing with Behemoth and Leviathan. Cedar Point did the same thing with Gate Keeper.

 

I think you are focusing solely on us saying that the new coaster is not coming on your timeline. It IS coming but the park has things that they HAVE to address before it comes.

 

Sorry that I was not clear enough. I choose a list of CF, SF and Independent parks to illustrate my point that all parks add a coaster to increase attendance and that VF is no different. I feel VF is ready now to add one in an attempt to grow the park. But since I'm stupid I would appreciate your help in under standing all the MASSIVE infrastructure upgrades in detail of what and where that VF needs to finally accommodate a new coaster. With you sharing all your knowledge I can stop making dumb or 'trolling' comments. And if you have the time could you list all the MASSIVE infrastructure upgrades that KI, CP, WOF and CW did the year before they added a new coaster?

[RCjunkie]

Never said screw customer service. You can add a coaster and improve customer service at the same time, you don't have to give up one for the other. A park would add a coaster every year if it made sense for ROI but it doesn't. No fan of VF is asking for a coaster every year, just one every 8-10 years would be nice. The back of the park is not perfect and can be improved but it is not bad enough to keep people away. It has been that way for years and VF has had no decrease in attendance so your your really overblowing how bad the back half of the park really is.

 

They have increased every year in attendance?

 

Probably not since CF reported last year a decrease in attendance for the chain. I can't be sure since they do not break out individual park numbers but I am assuming VF had a part of that decrease and decreased a little too. I never said attendance has increased, I just said the park did not have a decrease in attendance due to the way that the back of the park is designed. At least that is the point I meant to make but in re-reading my comment I see I was not that clear.

[madsecar]

California Pinto you really just need to go away. You stated your opinions already, and now you need to stop offending people. Just because I'm younger than you doesn't give you the right to make fun of me or be rude. And if you think I'm dumb, guess again. I happen to be a straight A student who just loves roller coasters and VF happens to be my home park. If we want to speculate about a coaster coming in 2016, we can. And you have no idea if one is coming or not. What if we do get one in 2016? You sure might feel a bit stupid. Please, just go away. We all don't want you on here if your going to be like this.

[VF15]

Just checked the webcam and it looks like they're doing something in the construction area. The large pile of dirt where the dining patio used to be looks different than it has been. Hopefully they can get some of the slide tower construction done before winter comes.

[garyman6]

I am assuming you are just trolling because no one can seriously be that stupid. I'm just going to cherry pick KI out of your argument because it is the only one you mentioned that is in the chain (and therefore the only one that has any merit in this conversation). KI did massive infrastructure upgrades in the areas that received Diamond Back and Banshee the year immediately before those coasters were added. WOF did the same thing with Patriot. Carowinds is doing the same thing with Fury. Canada's Wonderland did the same thing with Behemoth and Leviathan. Cedar Point did the same thing with Gate Keeper.

 

I think you are focusing solely on us saying that the new coaster is not coming on your timeline. It IS coming but the park has things that they HAVE to address before it comes.

 

Sorry that I was not clear enough. I choose a list of CF, SF and Independent parks to illustrate my point that all parks add a coaster to increase attendance and that VF is no different. I feel VF is ready now to add one in an attempt to grow the park. But since I'm stupid I would appreciate your help in under standing all the MASSIVE infrastructure upgrades in detail of what and where that VF needs to finally accommodate a new coaster. With you sharing all your knowledge I can stop making dumb or 'trolling' comments. And if you have the time could you list all the MASSIVE infrastructure upgrades that KI, CP, WOF and CW did the year before they added a new coaster?

California Pinto you really just need to go away. You stated your opinions already, and now you need to stop offending people. Just because I'm younger than you doesn't give you the right to make fun of me or be rude. And if you think I'm dumb, guess again. I happen to be a straight A student who just loves roller coasters and VF happens to be my home park. If we want to speculate about a coaster coming in 2016, we can. And you have no idea if one is coming or not. What if we do get one in 2016? You sure might feel a bit stupid. Please, just go away. We all don't want you on here if your going to be like this.

 

Amen brothers! Let's all just assume that Californiapinto just likes to make random statements based on nothing but liking to see his posts on this thread. I'm sure Valleyfair is not the only forum he likes to intrude upon.

 

O.K. anybody getting any closer to unscrambling my latest clue?

[xACEx]

(Dorney Park has announced that the park will open the Cedar Creek Flyers in 2015, a new Larson Flying Scooters flat ride). Cedar Point and Kings Island already have the rides.

 

This is what Valleyfair could use in there flat ride line up along with a 150 foot Max Air like at Cedar Point put it somewere in front of the park or put a Max Air where the old chaos use to sit fill some of the open grass areas and were the scrambler use to sit put a Cedar Creek Flyers in that circle right now just benches and flags. I would be happy to see Valleyfair get a couple of new flat rides before a new roller coaster comes. They need to add some more flat rides to. Speaking of general park improvements they need to re paint some of the rides like enterprise could use a new paint job re furnish the carousel I thought that was in the works? They also still need to change some of there walk ways in the back of the park plus the parking lot needs some attention and a new park sing?