The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[COASTER FREAK 11]

Does anyone know how the Q-bot will work with the extreem passes? Right now, as the system stands, you get 4 free flash passes on every visit.

[NYTrojan]

Does anyone know how the Q-bot will work with the extreem passes? Right now, as the system stands, you get 4 free flash passes on every visit.

 

They say there will be a 'Discount'

 

I asked around yesterday and nobody seems to know how much they will be discounted. Given last year they said you'd get into Fright Fest for free and that didn't happen (I'm actually surprised they got away with that) I wouldn't hold your breath hoping for anything amazing.

[ChrisZer0]

Does anyone know how the Q-bot will work with the extreem passes? Right now, as the system stands, you get 4 free flash passes on every visit.

 

They say there will be a 'Discount'

 

I asked around yesterday and nobody seems to know how much they will be discounted. Given last year they said you'd get into Fright Fest for free and that didn't happen (I'm actually surprised they got away with that) I wouldn't hold your breath hoping for anything amazing.

 

I used to get the "gold/extreme" pass, just wasnt worth the extra money to me at my home park (SFoT). Plus, you're not the only one ive heard this situation from.

[robbalvey]

I guess I come from the school of thought that if im going to spend the money to go to a park or pay for a season pass, I should have that included in the cost of purchase price, like w/ fastpass at the Disney Parks. I know "the Flags" been hard-up for cash, but bilking someone an additional fee to get "cut-sies" makes bad business sense, especially in this economic client.

I think there are a couple of separate issues here that are being combined together that I think you need to take into consideration -

 

First off - One thing everyone needs to understand is that NOTHING IS EVER "FREE" - If you look at the average cost of a one-day ticket to a Disney Park versus the average cost of a one-day ticket to a Six Flags park, that Fast Pass system is not "free" - it's "included", yes, I give you that, but I've heard many people talk about this "Free System" from Disney, and trust me, it's not "free."

 

Second - I believe Disney is able to offer this service to everyone who walks into the gate simply because they have higher capacity rides that can accommodate having an "included with your admission" system that is normally available to everyone throughout the day, even for many attractions on very busy days.

 

When you have the throughput of 2,000 people per hour on your rides, and you can still maintain a 30-45 minute "standby line" this is not a problem.

 

But when you look at a non-Disney park, if you offered a similar service "included" with admission price, most rides would sell out very quickly, meaning that if you got to the park even a few hours after opening, it's very likely that you would not be able to partake in this system. Making it an unfair system.

 

Just look at a ride like Toy Story Mania at DHS. We have now been there multiple times on different types of days (busy days, dead days, EMH days, etc) and it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get a FastPass if you arrive after noon. Whereas even a ride like Space Mountain and Tower of Terror we were able to get FastPasses up until a couple of hours before park closing.

 

Now TSM has the dual problem of 1. being the newest and the current most popular ride at DHS, and 2. being lower capacity than other rides at the resort.

 

I can see why DCA chose not to add FastPass to this ride to make it fair for everyone coming in the gates. (However those that get to DHS early do have an advantage!)

 

Lastly - It really is now becoming an industry standard and I think "expected" to offer some kind of FastPass or VIP service that will allow you to navigate the park at the speed in which you choose based on the amount of money you want to spend.

 

At this point, Six Flags, Busch Parks, Universal, Herschend, Tussauds, and many other park chains now offer a "skip the line" system for a fee.

 

I personally endorse these systems simply because when I visit a park that I am not local to, I don't want to spend my "vacation time" standing in a line.

 

And while yes it's "nice" that Disney offers their services to everyone, it's also not always guaranteed.

 

At least with the paid service you have a much better guarantee that when you BUY something you will receive in return for your money the service in which you paid for. (read - not spending time in lines)

 

If there was a pay option at Disney I would ABSOUTELY purchase it every time we go to Disney World. If I knew that I could guarantee a ride or two on Toy Story Mania WITHOUT having to get up at the crack of dawn to beat the 150 minute line or to get a FastPass I would pay the fee in a heart beat!

 

On top of all this, I have used just about every virtual queue system that exists and I believe that the Q-Bot system is by far the best "upcharge" service out there.

 

It reduces your time in line to practically nothing (Gold Q-Bot) while really not adding much additional time to the stand-by lines. I have been to the same park before and after the Q-Bots were added and normal wait times haven't been affected.

 

So for parks that have Q-Bots, if you don't agree with the pay-to-skip-the-line system, or think it's bad for the economy, the normal line is still the same option you've always had, but if you're like me, and you'd rather NOT spend that time waiting in line, then Q-Bot is $50 VERY, VERY WELL SPENT!

 

Remember that getting a Q-Bot is an OPTION for people to make. And I welcome as many additional options as a park can offer to help make my day go smoother, less hassle, and more comfortable.

 

It's no different that buying that "Economy Plus" or "Business Class" plane ticket versus coach, renting a compact versus a full size car, having a GPS system versus a paper map, an economy hotel room versus a moderate, a DVD player versus a Blu-Ray, a dollar cinema versus a luxury theater, a box seat versus a nosebleed seat, valet parking versus self parking, etc, etc...

 

I think in just about every entertainment outlet there has ALWAYS been some kind of "upgrade" option from movie theaters to sporting events. Why should theme parks be any different?

 

--Robb

[NYTrojan]

It's no different that buying that "Economy Plus" or "Business Class" plane ticket versus coach, renting a compact versus a full size car, having a GPS system versus a paper map, an economy hotel room versus a moderate, a DVD player versus a Blu-Ray, a dollar cinema versus a luxury theater, a box seat versus a nosebleed seat, valet parking versus self parking, etc, etc...

--Robb

 

I agree with just about everything you said Rob, except that last bit. The one difference, and it's a big one, is that the benefit comes at other people's expense. When someone jumps in front of line for you, they extended your wait. That doesn't happen in any of your other examples, with perhaps a slight exception of how first class travelers get their own line and board the plane first (and don't tell me you haven't seen the sour looks from folks watching the big money people board the plane first) Heck, I once saw a comedy bit... a candid camera type thing... where they did this at a grocery store. The guy jumps in front of a woman with a cart full of groceries because he is a 1st class club member and they can do that. Needless to say the woman was more than a little upset.

 

I have to say that under the old fastpass system I always felt a little guilty as I passed everybody by. Not so guilty that I'd spend 2 hours waiting for Tatsu, but guilty non the less

[ChrisZer0]

Trojan, I owe you a fancy seafood dinner for that retort...unlike dorothy mantooth, id call ya back LOL

[NYTrojan]

Trojan, I owe you a fancy seafood dinner for that retort...unlike dorothy mantooth, id call ya back LOL

 

It's funny... I see both sides of the argument. People who pay more deserve more... I remember standing in line for a Churro at Disneyland and the gal in front of me bought 9 of the things. Had a freaking Churro bouquet. She apologized for taking so long. My response was "You paid 3.50 for each of those... you apologize to nobody"...

 

but on the other side of the coin, I think that Six Flags takes for granted the little things that can really turn a person off to the park. People get really upset about these things. Yes there is a difference in how rich and not so rich people are treated... but folks don't like being reminded all day long at a place where they're supposed to be having a highlight day of these differences. And they REALLY don't like being reminded by being asked to stand aside while the people with fatter wallets take your place. I mean how would you feel if you were waiting at In N Out and a guy jumps up to the counter and offers the gal behind the counter 20$ for your burger?

 

So to be honest I'm split on the issue myself... I've taken advantage of it, and I've been burned by it too. But no matter how I feel about it, I understand that there are other people who get really upset by it and I just don't think that it is a good idea for parks to go about upsetting any of their guests.... but hey, that's some serious scratch they're getting for those QBot systems so there's obviously a lot of people willing to shell it out!

 

What blows me away is that with Qbot, Six Flags prices get pretty darned close to Disneyland ones and actually exceed it for single folks. (40 per person + 32 for Qbot = 72. Disney ticket = 70)

[ChrisZer0]

What blows me away is that with Qbot, Six Flags prices get pretty darned close to Disneyland ones and actually exceed it for single folks. (40 per person + 32 for Qbot = 72. Disney ticket = 70)

 

Game, Set, Match.

 

I agree you have a choice, but when the cost breakdown comes close to Disney when you add the flash pager, id rather just see them set it up for free similar to fastpass. Hell, you can make money off of that via advertising (ex: free ice cream at johnny rockets w/ purchase coupon).

[Sir Clinksalot]

Then again, with Disney you get Fastpass which is for one ride per set period, and you still have to wait in some sort of line for those you have FP for, and lines for the rides that don't have FP.

 

Plus, how many people on this board are spending a single-day admission at Six Flags and not using an AP???

[robbalvey]

I agree with just about everything you said Rob, except that last bit. The one difference, and it's a big one, is that the benefit comes at other people's expense. When someone jumps in front of line for you, they extended your wait.

But the benefit DOESN'T come at other's expense! This is what I don't think you are quite understanding. It's a "virtual queue" system, *NOT* a "line cutting" system.

 

Even at Disney, each piece of paper that spits out of the FastPass machine represents one person standing in that line.

 

So when you see the standby line of 45 minutes it already assumes that all those pieces of paper are standing in that line too.

 

It just physically *appears* that the line is extended because someone else is "cutting" in front of you. But they are not, they are waiting in the same line as you are, just not physically in that line.

 

I think what makes people more upset is NOT the fact that people are "cutting in front of them" but that people realize "why the hell didn't I use that system too?"

 

Even the Gold Q-Bot takes the queue times into consideration when it tells you the time to come back. Now granted those with the Gold Q-Bot will get onto the ride quicker, but they too do not extend YOUR wait time, or the posted standby line time.

 

Does this make sense?

 

That doesn't happen in any of your other examples, with perhaps a slight exception of how first class travelers get their own line and board the plane first (and don't tell me you haven't seen the sour looks from folks watching the big money people board the plane first)

But see, those "sour looks" are just people with poor attitudes because they are jealous they don't have the means to have that upgraded ticket. I *also* see looks of indifference from people who simply don't care and are happy they are getting away for the weekend, even if they have to fly coach.

 

Elissa and I fly have flown business class and first class and we have NEVER bought a first class or business class ticket, but because we get upgraded since we make an effort to use the same airline carrier for all our trips and are thus "rewarded" and we have sometimes been upgraded. IMO, someone that gives me a sour look because we got upgraded to first class because we figured out a way to take advantage of the system (which is ENCOURAGED) is just someone with a very, very poor attitude. Because that "point system", like the FastPass system is available to EVERYONE. Those who know how to use it and take advantage of it should *NOT* be looked at as the "bad guys." I personally think that is very unfair.

 

I think it's possible to site other examples and argue this until you're blue in the face (the person with the faster car could get to point B sooner, the person with the nicer hotel room has a better night of sleep, the person with a higher quality TV sees a sharper picture, blah, blah, blah...)

 

I have to say that under the old fastpass system I always felt a little guilty as I passed everybody by. Not so guilty that I'd spend 2 hours waiting for Tatsu, but guilty non the less

You shouldn't though. Because EVERY PERSON IN THAT LINE ALSO HAD THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT YOU DID. It's not like you were Katie Holmes and you got to play in the Disney World Castle lawn area with your daughter simply because you were deemed "special" by the park and no one, regardless of money, is able to do that also. No, you are taking part in an option that is available to EVERYONE. And if someone chooses NOT to take part in it, then they really cannot be upset at those that do. And if people DO get upset, well, that's just humanity once again proving that humans are on a decline.

 

So take away from this the following:

 

1. People who use a FastPass system are NOT doing it at other people's expense.

 

2. Everyone has an equal chance to use the system.

 

3. These kinds of systems are now the "norm" not the exception at theme parks.

 

--Robb

 

EDIT:

Trojan, I owe you a fancy seafood dinner for that retort...unlike dorothy mantooth, id call ya back LOL

But you shouldn't because, with all due respect, he's not right. And I think the more people who take the time to understand how a "virtual queue" system works, the more you'd realize that it's not being done at someone else's expense. I'm not speaking from personal opinion, I'm speaking from how these systems factually work.

[ChrisZer0]

Robby, I was having a laugh with the comments, I just think sometimes we take these things too seriously and get caught up in it, but thats why I like this board, everyone gets a say and we respect each other. BTW, I should get you on my show man...im looking at putting together my Best Of Summer 2009 and I wouldnt mind getting you on...drop me a PM if you're interested...

[robbalvey]

^ No, I totally understand. I do take this topic a *little* more seriously though because I don't think people quite "get it" and when you have a system like this that can greatly improve your day, I want as many people as possible to understand exactly what it is they are complaining about, and in some cases, are only complaining because they don't understand it.

 

From the Lo-Q Website:

 

True virtual queuing means that our computer schedules ride times or shows in such a way that the guest using the Q-bot waits the same time as other guests. The guest benefits by no longer having to stand in line and is therefore free to enjoy other attractions, visit a retail outlet or restaurant or just relax. Because ALL guests wait the same amount of time for their rides, the presence of a standard Lo-Q system does not noticeably impact the queue dynamics.

[NYTrojan]

It just physically *appears* that the line is extended because someone else is "cutting" in front of you. But they are not, they are waiting in the same line as you are, just not physically in that line.

 

I think you misunderstand what I mean about the line being extended. I know that you don't get to jump directly to the head of the line like you did with the old flash passes... but the idea is that if you are in line for a ride, you can't be in line for any others. If you use Qbot, you can technically be in line for 2 rides at once. You have twice the impact on ride lines in the park at that particular moment... which does make them longer for the folks that don't have the system.

 

Let's use an oversimplified example. 100 people in a park. 20 of them have Qbot. 2 rides. People like them evenly. Ignoring trains there are 50 people in each line. 10 of them use Qbot for ride 1, 10 use Qbot for ride 2. This makes ride 1 and ride 2 each have a queue of 60 people (50 real ones, and 10 qbot virtual queuers)... which extends the lines 10 people each. Each person without Qbot needs to wait for 120 people, when they would have waited for 100 people. That's how it is at their expense. People without the Qbot system wait in longer lines because those that do have it get to double their impact on lines in the park.

 

Then when you get into gold members, those folks can skip a certain portion of the line, which increases their line impact further. In our example above, if 20 people have qbot and 10 of them have the gold version, the day starts with the 60-60 example, except after 30 have gone through, the qbot golds will have a ride time available, adding 5 more to each ride.

 

If the ride processes 50 people an hour, under normal circumstances, everybody would ride both rides in 2 hours. Under all 20 'Qbot normal' circumstances, non qbot folks would get to ride both rides in 2 hours and 24 minutes. In the qbot gold scenario, normal folks get on both rides in 2 hours and 32 minutes (roughly)

 

Like I said, I see both sides of the issue... I stand beside the idea that if you pay more you should get more... but the math definitely works out against the folks who choose not to buy fast passes. Their lines are longer than they would have been without any such system.

[NYTrojan]

Robby, I was having a laugh with the comments, I just think sometimes we take these things too seriously and get caught up in it, but thats why I like this board, everyone gets a say and we respect each other. BTW, I should get you on my show man...im looking at putting together my Best Of Summer 2009 and I wouldnt mind getting you on...drop me a PM if you're interested...

 

I agree entirely. I'm not trying to start a battle here like what happened with the locker debate... After all: Buying your way to reduced lines is nothing new to Six Flags, and if anything Qbot is MORE fair than the old flash pass system which certainly WAS a 'cut the line' item. It's just an interesting topic to me... really because I'm not sure which way I go on the issue. People who use these things don't bother me, but I do understand where people are coming from when they get upset at them too.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

Like I said, I see both sides of the issue... I stand beside the idea that if you pay more you should get more... but the math definitely works out against the folks who choose not to buy fast passes. Their lines are longer than they would have been without any such system.

 

 

If you would have said this from the beginning then your post count would have been a little lower, but who wouldn't want to jack those numbers up?

[robbalvey]

I agree entirely. I'm not trying to start a battle here like what happened with the locker debate...

Agreed. This does seem to be argument for argument sake. If any of the above was actually a REAL argument or issue none of these virtual queue systems would exist because lines at parks would be unbearable and guest relations would have constant complaints resulting in virtual queing being an epic fail.

 

But that's not what happened and the reality is that most people are actually now able to get on MORE rides in a given day than they were before these systems existed (at least using Disney's FastPass as an example and some of the data I've heard from people who work for the parks) and based on that knowledge, we could argue the math forever, but in reality there isn't an argument to be had.

 

--Robb

[ebl]

Being that I not only get into SFMM free but park free as well, I shouldn't have any issues putting up a few more dollars for this when it becomes available---especially if the prices are indeed what is shown here.

 

Eric

[robbalvey]

^ They aren't. The actual prices are closer to what was shown in that SFDK photo:

 

and will be posted at the park soon.

 

--Robb

[Manic Monte]

^ Yeah people have been predicting "customer outrage" ever since this "pay" system began use in the parks. But when you see these systems actually in action, the response is quite the opposite. The demand is huge, and people are happy to not to be standing in the same line for 2 hours. Also because this system is so heavily advertised throughout the park, people in line understand exactly what is happening, and that using the system is a choice available to all.

 

Unlike Flashpass, which used tickets which often went unnoticed by a lot of guests, the Qbots really do help in planning a full day at a very busy place. With this system I no longer have to dread going to the park on a busy Saturday in June (provided I still get to the park early, the Qbot lines get pretty long on weekends), and also eliminates the need to take up half my day waiting for the park's newest attraction.

 

For me, it's worth every penny!

[ajinaz]

If you use Qbot, you can technically be in line for 2 rides at once. You have twice the impact on ride lines in the park at that particular moment... which does make them longer for the folks that don't have the system.

 

I have used the Qbot system in the past and I have NEVER waited in line while I had a reservation for another ride. I have ridden other rides that are walk-ons but I would never wait for anything. I hate lines so I might not be representative of most. However, I'm always holding FP's at Disney parks and I will wait in line with one in my pocket. I tend to do that with Space Mountain. I'll grab a FP on the way in and then stand-by for 20 minutes and come right back out and ride. Fast pass is way different though because you can collect them all day and use them that night.

[haiderodes]

In other news...

 

When did Tatsu start the whole no re-rides thing? Usually when I am a single rider I can take an empty seat if there is one if I had waited in line and just completed the ride. Well Saturday night, they were announcing after every train that there were no re-rides. Granted the line wasn't even around a full switchback, but it just seemed random for none of the other rides to be doing this (except X2).

[rawrtotheargh]

The past couple times i've visited the park they were doing the same thing at Tatsu(Re-rides). Which is interesting because at X they were letting us re-ride if we wanted to, so long as there was no one at the stairs (or ramp). But also depending on which attendant you ask they sometimes say you can re-ride on Tatsu.

 

 

And in regards to the Q-Bot:

 

Have they always asked for Season Pass? Cause I don't remember giving mine at SFGA. But I could just be having an epic memory fart. Oh and on price boards is it per person or its the total price for the entire party? Again its been a while since i've used a Q-bot so I kind of forgot.

[robbalvey]

When did Tatsu start the whole no re-rides thing?

When did they ever officially allow this? Perhaps one of the SFMM employees who read this forum can shed some light, but I don't ever remember a "hop back on if you're a single rider" being a policy of the park.

 

--Robb

[YoshiFan]

I thought they only allow re-rides if there is no line at all (rows going out empty). At Great Adventure they announce you are allowed to stay on if no one is waiting for your row even at Kingda Ka, or if someone is waiting for your row and move to another empty row they don't care.

[robbalvey]

^ This I know was allowed, if the station is empty, but it sounds like they were telling them no re-rides for single riders if there's an empty seat, meaning someone stays on the exit plaform, waits for everyone to load and then hops in if there is an empty.

 

I think that's what he's saying...

 

--Robb