The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[Scarlet Spider 23]

I heard there was a new train or repainted train on Colossus. Does anyone know anything about this?

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^^Everyone says families are where the money is, but one question you have to ask is "what family feels comfortable shoving their kids through metal detectors." I'm not saying that they should slip back into their old ways and put in two prototype coasters every year, but half-assing family rides and poster board themeing isn't bringing in a flurry of guests either. Tatsu and X raised SFMM attendence. Even if you don't pay to return because of a season pass, you still have to park and eat. In addition to season pass purchases, getting people to pay full admission price with so many coupons in circulatin is hard enough. Trust me, I've worked in a theme park box office. Contrary to popular belief, a family of four wouldn't spend much more money than a group of four college kids with season passes. Perhaps Six Flags parks would make more money if they were resorts, hench why Disney parks make so much money. Let's see what happens.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

...why aren't they marketing Thomas Town? I know there isn't much to market, but the brand is a strong brand and kids will probably still eat it up.

 

Possible trademark license fee issue. To market Thomas Town, Six Flags would have to get the ok from the owner of the Thomas trademarks to have their trademarks in a Six Flags ad across whatever media Six Flags wants it to be on. It's a good bet Six Flags chose NOT to spend this money and instead went with X2 stuff since Six Flags owns X2 trademarks.

 

Of course it totally goes against the whole reason for building Thomas Town, but, Six Flags has shown itself to be terribly anti-cost multiple times before. Why don't they publicly advertise Johnny Rockets in the park now? Or Papa John's? Or Coldstone? Same reason, I'd guess.

 

Just a supposition...

[Jew]

^Uhm...what? Call me crazy, but I'm guessing since they already licensed the brand for the attraction, the right to sell their products in the gift shop, put it on their website, etc...trademark rights aren't the issue. Sure they might have to get approval, but I highly doubt Six Flags doesn't have the right to advertise Thomas Town.

 

^^....Which is exactly why Jahan said they need to market Thomas Town. Perhaps families aren't coming to the park because they don't know the park is making an effort to change?

 

2006 saw a 10% drop in attendance at SFMM.

 

Families have to park too. The difference is they are the ones who want to enjoy a whole day in the park. Passholders don't care about leaving early to go down the hill to get food, or going in for a few hours and taking off. No one pays full price because admission isn't where profits come from. It's what guests spend once they are inside the park that really matters.

 

It's no accident parks have being adding less coasters and more "family" attractions" Cedar Point's snoopy thing, Hershey Park putting in the water park, all the Six Flags additions, etc. Sure coasters are still being built, but it's hardly a coincidence everyone has made a push to market "family" attractions...

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Uhm...what? Call me crazy, but I'm guessing since they already licensed the brand for the attraction, the right to sell their products in the gift shop, put it on their website, etc...trademark rights aren't the issue. Sure they might have to get approval, but I highly doubt Six Flags doesn't have the right to advertise Thomas Town.

 

We're not talking about any of that though. We're talking about public advertising outside of the stuff Six Flags controls (i.e. gift shops, website, etc) that plays by a whole different set of rules & fees beyond the distribution contract for the gift shop stuff & general license agreement for Six Flags stuff & on Six Flags media. Useage of trademarks beyond that usually require a different set of agreements and likely useage fees. Remember how Disney always needed the fine print at the bottom of Tower of Terror commercials reminding us that Twilight Zone is a registered trademark of CBS? Something similar would be afoot here with ThomasTown, I would think. This could simply be a case of Six Flags choosing not to incur that particular cost.

 

I'd be curious to know if ANY of the Six Flags parks that have recently added a ThomasTown (SFDK and another), have locally advertised the presence of ThomasTown somewhere/somehow in media not under Six Flags' control. TV commercials, ads in the paper, bus stop benches, or something to that affect where Six Flags would have to pay someone to get their ad with the Thomas trademarks placed. Has that happened?

 

If those parks have but Magic Mountain hasn't, then I'm forced to conclude that Magic Mountain has just shot their effort to attract more families and change their image to be more for families squarely in the foot. They're doing a much better job of advertising X2 in the "now the Xtreme park!" sense now than when the Xtreme park thing was really going on. The SoCal family market isn't going to buy some schizophrenic image of Magic Mountain being the Xtreme park that's really for families. Not in this day & age. Maybe someday we'll see a grass roots traditional Magic Mountain ad for today's offerings like we're seeing in the Museum, but I doubt it.

[Tmcdllr]

The guy that painted that train posted on here about it pages ago but I don't remember his screen name and I just had to say this...

 

Absolutely fantastic! Love the letters, detail. Beutiful. Will the other trains get this or will this be the only one?

 

So awesome, makes me want to watch "Rollercoaster" again.

[Rollerman87]

^^ With the whole Thomas Town thing, I think partially the park feels the area is a little small for advertising. I mean, think about it, both the Bugs Bunny World and Thomas Town could probably fit inside of X2's land area with room to spare. The park might be test driving the whole family thing on a small scale. Plus, with X2, they need to get it out there, for they spent quite a bit more money on it being refurbed. I hope in the next couple of years, though, that we see a calming of the commercials to something of an updated version of the original Magic Mountain commercials. Hmm, maybe that's what they're waiting for the new 2009 coaster for. If they plan to make that a family friendly ride, then we might see advertising for a family audience.

 

Of course, these stupid "2 flags...no fun" commercials with the scary asian guy aren't helping. They say their trying to advertise more toward families, but this new guy and these new commercials scream TEEN to me. Mr. Six was way more family friendly. I know many a kid who called him their idol

[PURE]

I agree with Jahan...why aren't they marketing Thomas Town? I know there isn't much to market, but the brand is a strong brand and kids will probably still eat it up.

 

Gotta disagree with you there.

 

Thomas Town is a strong brand for kids age 1-5 (perfect example is KidTums being entertained). How many strollers do you see when you're walking around MM on a typical day? Maybe 2. There's the explanation for TT being dead all the time.

 

Beyond that, kids age 5-11 are looking for something a little more exciting than a Thomas Town train that goes in circles. I liked Thomas when I was younger, but I'll be the first to admit, its not the most exciting brand in the world. If kids are in first grade and they're walking around with a Thomas Town lunch pail, they're getting made fun of.

 

Something like Bugs Bunny world, with mini rides and semi-thrilling kid flats, is perfect for the 5-11 year old age group, (and there are a lot more 5-11 year olds walking around with their teenage brothers and sisters) which is why I don't get why MM didn't continue or improve the Bugs Bunny Theme they already have. Its a solid, marketable kid brand. When I was 7, I knew about Thomas Town, but I'd much rather go on a Looney Toons train than a Thomas Town one.

 

Kids aren't dumb. They aren't entertained by a train ride where the main props are dirt, rocks, and a blue "T". Hell, even I enjoy a good train ride every once in a while, and the one that MM plopped in looks downright depressing!

 

Magic Mountain has built and still holds the reputation for being a park with some of the craziest coasters in the world, and as much as they'd like to change that, its not going to go away any time soon. The "Xtreme" coasters are the first things you see when you pull up to the park.

 

The only way to bring families back into the park is by having a good 5-10 year reputation of family friendly service. There can't be park stabbings, there can't be kids walking around with shirts that say "F*** You," there can't be lethargic uninterested employees, the park must continue its turn for the better even more dramatically than they already have. All the advertising in the world doesn't mean squat if you don't provide for each and every one of the families on each and every visit.

 

Magic Mountain decided to say "good bye" to families more than a decade ago, and as the park and all of us are seeing, it takes more than a quick fix to bring them back.

[Jew]

Thomas Town is a strong brand for kids age 1-5 (perfect example is KidTums being entertained). How many strollers do you see when you're walking around MM on a typical day? Maybe 2. There's the explanation for TT being dead all the time.

 

Which is exactly why they need to market it. I don't know if you have been around the parents of a 1-5 year old kid lately, but I can tell you from experience they are looking to spend lots of money keeping their kid happy. That's two more people in your park spending money that would normally ignore the place until their kid was old enough to ride the coasters.

 

It's not the grand solution...but it's the foundation. If they're really serious about becoming a family destination.

[rba13]

I wish, Six Flags would just drop the Six Flags and just advertise it as Magic Mountain. Six Flags is just to generic and "Magic Mountain" by itself makes it sound unique and special. I also would like them to bring back the trolls. Or maybe they could have a 70's week where they turn back the clock and encourage patrons to wear 70's clothes. Maybe bring in 70's sitcom stars and blast 70's music around the park. Maybe re-unite the Brady Bunch in a musical production. Groovy.

 

Or maybe a theme area, just for the groovy 70's and make the central part of the theme area a retro's 70's era Wonder Woman theme roller coaster.

[nagro5]

I'm not trying to flame you, but some parts of your post are completely bogus. For example...

 

Thomas Town is a strong brand for kids ages 1-5...kids age 5-11 are looking for something a little more exciting than a Thomas Town train that goes in circles

Which is exactly why they built Thomas Town for kids ages 1-5 and Bugs Bunny World for kids ages 5-11(which BTW I think is an inaccurate estimate for Bugs Bunny World, I think that they are targeting the same age group). What I'm getting at is that they are trying to build things for the kids.

 

I don't get why MM didn't continue or improve the Bugs Bunny Theme they already have. It’s a solid, marketable kid brand.

So is Thomas and Friends...

 

When I was 7, I knew about Thomas Town, but I'd much rather go on a Looney Toons train than a Thomas Town one.

Well, that's your opinion and you can't assume that everyone else has the same as you. Some kids like Thomas and some like Looney Toons.

 

Magic Mountain has built and still holds the reputation for being a park with some of the craziest coasters in the world, and as much as they'd like to change that, it’s not going to go away any time soon. The "Xtreme" coasters are the first things you see when you pull up to the park. The only way to bring families back into the park is by having a good 5-10 year reputation of family friendly service.

Well, if they are trying to bring in families they have to start somewhere. They are going to loose the "Xtreme Park" status slowly. Nobody said that they are going to loose it quickly.

 

There can't be park stabbings, there can't be kids walking around with shirts that say "F*** You," there can't be lethargic uninterested employees, the park must continue its turn for the better even more dramatically than they already have. All the advertising in the world doesn't mean squat if you don't provide for each and every one of the families on each and every visit.

All the things you listed haven't happened in a long time, they are changing those things, so they can be more of a family park. There are always going to be people like that, and there is no way we can stop them from wearing shirts with vulgar language, and there is no way we can keep uninterested employees from working there. But they can greatly reduce those things with more strict security and better training.

 

Magic Mountain decided to say "good bye" to families more than a decade ago, and as the park and all of us are seeing, it takes more than a quick fix to bring them back.

That was the old Six Flags. Now they are trying to bring those families back. Again, nobody said that it was going to be a quick fix; they are going to have to draw the families in slowly but surely.

 

I'm sorry if I seem like a complete a-hole, but I just don't understand some of your reasoning.

[Rollerman87]

^Everything you said was perfectly true. The park really is slowly trying to bring back families. I think they will try that push when the new coaster comes. Since it will be more family friendly, they'll be able to advertise the park as an intermediate park, with thrills for the big people and fun for the little ones as well.

 

^^As for the 70's theme, not really seeing how it'd help. I mean, that era is done. What they did with Revolution was great, and really brought a piece of history back, but to do even a whole section of "70's era" stuff would seem out of place. It's better how they're kinda bringing the old vibe back to some of the rides with a contemporary feel as well.

[ebl]

TPR staff may move this if they choose to do so. I also posted this on Westcoaster, so you might have read it there...

 

The girls went out shopping, so I had the day to meself. All of my yard work was caught up, the bills were mailed, and I had a free day. So out to SFMM I went.

 

Strangely, it wasn't THAT crowded. I took a ride on Revolution and rode in the brand new train (with the almost-1976 paint scheme---which looks nice!). And, it was actually fairly smooth. Rode in the front, and not a head bump was had.

 

Next was Tatsu. I used a Flash Pass, so I had to wait at the Flash Pass entrance. No problem, but...some asshat was complaining about the guy letting Flash Pass people in and what he should do is let five FP users in, then five stand bys, then five FPs... After he went up the stairs, I told the SF employee, "Don'tcha just love people like that?" Then when I got up to the platform level, these girls were telling that guy what I'd said, but stopped short when they noticed me standing behind them. I moved toward the front of the train and I heard Mr. Asshat say something like "There goes Mr. Fast Pass..."

 

After Tatsu, I took a ride on Ninja. The Sky Tower was closed today, but I've been up there so many times this year that I didn't feel like I was missing anything. I walked down and rode Gold Rusher, then over to Riddler and rode via Flash Pass in Row 2. I wanted to ride Batman, but its line was pretty long, so I headed over to Thomas Town to check it out. Only about ten people were waiting to ride the train, so I pretty much walked right on. Not much to the ride, but I can see how families with small kids would enjoy it. I can't ride the Percy coaster (old Goliath Jr.), so I just headed out.

 

Being about dinner time, I went up to Katy's Kettle because a 1/3-lb. sirloin burger just sounded good. Inside, I discovered that you can get it with bacon, so guess what I got? Good eatin behind me, I walked back down to the far side of the park and just kept walking. When I got to Batman, I decided to use a Flash Pass. I had never used one there before, so the line for it was new to me. It was up a back stairway where you could see a whole bunch of behind the scenes stuff. I took a front seat ride on the new train (Train #2 in case you're wondering). Quite smooth, and no head bumping.

 

Finally, I rode Scream! with a Flash Pass because its line was unusually long. They were running all three trains, but stacking. For a change, I rode toward the back and got a smooth ride.

 

I was getting tired, so I ended the night with back seat ride on Goliath. I used my last Flash Pass, and was upstairs in a few minutes. Smooth as always.

 

Before leaving, I walked up to the bridge to see how long X2's line was, and it was too long for my liking. I was done and headed for home.

 

The End.

 

Eric

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

I fail to see why everyone is so "family" crazy?

 

I know everyone says thats where the money is, and I know people can come up with some nielson ratings to back up that claim. I'm not really giving an opinion either way, so I hope no one thinks I'm flaming anyone, there are just some things I'm unclear of.

 

1. Targeting children ages 1-5 doesn't seem all too business saavy if they get in for free up to age 3.

2. I can't see toddlers being a huge financial burden on mom and dad when their food doesn't cost as much as adult portions

3. Every park that has a steady family base in their attendence have either two of the following or both:

A) Some type of resort

B)No competition within striking distance

 

Everyone makes the claim that people who buy season passes spend no money in that respective park. Okay, simple solution to that is target vacationing families, only problem is, where are they going to stay? Cedar Point has 4 hotels and no serious rivalry park within miles. Even Knott's has a hotel. No matter how anyone tries to add the numbers up, you're still going to end up with the same number of people in the park, and having a family of four visit once or twice a year on discounted coupons can't make significantly more money than four classmates with season passes that go every other weekend out of the year.

 

Finally, I will now give my opinion

 

There is nothing wrong with SFMM being the Xtreme park, in the same respect that they can put in a Thomas tank train to lull the youngsters. Does the park need a balance? I think not. If there were a few dark rides, more shows and friendlier service, Mark Shapiro and Jay Thomas would both be wiping their @$$es with $20 bills. And they can still build insane prototype coasters that mad and dad can ride with their teenage kids.

[Rollerman87]

Oh, so there is a new train on Batman. I was wondering. I had seen how shiny and yellow the seats to one of the trains were, and I thought just a refurb or something. Well cool. I wish with Thomas Town that they'd expand it a bit. That's one of the reasons nobody is really in it. There's two rides and a tiny splash area. I can't really see a family staying there an entire day. But hey, again, let's wait until the new coaster and then see what the park does with the family aspect of the park.

[Jew]

I'll leave it at this: SFMM has gone from 3 million guests a year to barely over 2 million guests a year just over the course of the last decade. Perhaps something was wrong with their strategy?

[Rollerman87]

Well, with being a thrill park, there are consequences Luckily, they really are turning that park around for the btter, but still some stuff that needs work. Wow, if you think about it, a lot is riding on this new coaster

[nagro5]

Bolliger&Mabillard, no flame taken.

 

Thomas town (to me) is more kid friendly than family friendly, so your number one makes since. The supposed family coaster coming next year should help attract the familys.

 

On the contrary, I think that Magic Mountain should have a balance. Because if they still aimed for the thrill seekers they would come to ride the thrill rides and the thrill rides alone. I think rides like Evil Knievel that are big enough for the thrill seekers, but small enough for the family to ride are just the ticket. That and things for the smaller kids and elderly.

[Rollerman87]

One other thing people overlook with any park period is the rpice for food and drinks. I mean, 3.25 for a Coke is rediculous. Usually, a teen is more likely to pay that price for a drink than a family is. Everything in the park is overpriced. People go down the hill for food because, in all honesty, they have to. I mean, I went to SFMM a few weeks ago, and spent $20 on a combo meal and a large bottle of water, and that was with my pass coupon to get a large soft drink.

 

I'll be curios too, what the new area they're building will do to the revenue of the park. If there is food there, then Six Flags may receive even less money, for the food will probably be a little cheaper. But, then again, I forget if SFMM is tied in with that new area at all. I mean to say if they will receive any profit from it.

 

EDIT- 30th post! A tiny bit closer to my personalized subtitle

[knottslover77]

^Every park is overpriced.

 

--Jay

[Rollerman87]

^I know. But even looking at Disneyland, "the most expensive park on earth" , their prices for soda and stuff is slightly lower. And, can anyone tell me how much the Johny Rockets is at Knott's, because I bet it's slightly cheaper.

 

Hopefully that new area will help SFMM and not hurt it.

[NYTrojan]

On Rev's paint job (and I do hope the SFMM folks pick up on this )Of course I love it, but I'm a coaster geek.... so I showed it to my wife. Someone who grew up in New England and has no emotional ties to Magic Mountain or any nostalgia for the park. Her reaction?

 

"THAT'S AWESOME!!! I want to go! That logo on the front of the train... they need to put that on a shirt. I'd buy that in a heartbeat"

 

Just some food for thought. 70s retro is in and in a big way right now. I know down here in San Diego the ugly brown/yellow jerseys from way back when outsell the new flashy stuff and they cost more. In Florida Epcot is bringing back the Epcot center logo and it's selling like hot cakes. People would be all over. I see 'Frankie Says Relax" shirts everywhere (yes that's 80s but you get the idea)

 

Bring back the old Magic Mountain logo on merch. It's hot right now.

 

Oh and my own two cents on the train repaint. Fantastic... the loop across the bumpers is just awesome. I am so impressed to see MM pay attention to the details like this.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

WALL-E's been packing every theatre ,and then some this weekend here at Valencia's movie theatres about 5 minutes from Magic Mountain. The families are certainly plentiful in this area, but what will make them drive down Magic Mountain Parkway & around the corner, under I-5 and into Magic Mountain?

 

I'd start with awareness. I know Magic Mountain doesn't like to call itself part of Santa Clarita because it's not within the City Limits, but if it wants to tap the local family market here, that'd be a good start. A city of almost 200,000 that's almost completely families in your backyard is NOT something to be overlooked, yet they're doing a pretty good job of that. Appealing to local families here will start a domino effect that will change the park's image in the way that Rasulo wants it to change. I want to see more local family-oriented advertising!

[knottslover77]

^I know. But even looking at Disneyland, "the most expensive park on earth" , their prices for soda and stuff is slightly lower. And, can anyone tell me how much the Johny Rockets is at Knott's, because I bet it's slightly cheaper.

 

Hopefully that new area will help SFMM and not hurt it.

 

I think it's the same as a normal Johny Rockets, but don't quote me on that. Also a soda(bottled) at Knott's is 3.25 as well

 

--Jay

[Rollerman87]

Just a side note, I'm not sure if anyone's announced it yet, but rcdb now says the new coaster will be a woodie. So, has someone offically said that it's going to be a GCI?