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I know everyone has a right to their own opinion and there are good days and bad days for each coaster, etc etc... but can you try to explain your thoughts on this one? I've ridden both enough to have a solid opinion, and while I can understand the side to preferring Diamondback (though I disagree), I don't see how you can say Nitro isn't even comparable.

^Honestly though, true

Really interesting topic! My list goes something like... 1. Phantom's Revenge Everything that could be said about this ride has been. The second drop is filled with speed and an old-school feel (that I feel does it better than Magnum--raw and intense rather than occasionally jerky and confusing) that leads nicely into a super intense feast of ejector airtime before the brakes. Short and sweet, but powerful and menacing. My #5 overall. 2. Raging Bull I know this is a pretty unpopular opinion, and I actually had one ride on it (though I'll definitely be getting back to it over the next four years), but that ride was in row 9 on a Friday night during Fright Fest with about 4-5 inches between my thighs and the lapbar. The first drop is only beaten by El Toro for me; it was borderline terrifying and (mind you I haven't ridden Skyrush) I haven't felt the need to grab my restraint like this since I was a child. The second half of the layout is "meh" with the trims, but the two airtime moments with nothing holding me back and a unique second half that other B&M hypers can't match made this ride special. A stapled ride in the middle would bring this ride down in all likelihood, but my experience so far was special. 3. Nitro This is the ride I've ridden most on this list and it's been discussed in depth. I think it does exactly what Diamondback (and the stereotypical B&M hyper) does, but with a prolonged layout, a superior helix, and a far stronger finish that actually approaches zero-g. It's not intense overall, but I usually grey out in the helix and the ride delivers its promise and it does it well. 4. Diamondback Essentially a more refined, stylized version of Nitro, this ride falls victim to a mid-course that hits too hard and a train that just may be too long for its own good. The first drop is good, the airtime may be *just* stronger than Nitro in the first half, but the first half is just too short and the second half straight up blows. I've actually found myself enjoying the middle rows on my second visit in the fall for more sustained airtime. 5. Magnum XL 200 I've ridden it about a dozen times on three separate visits in varying weather patterns and I still don't get the hype. It's absolutely better than its Morgan cousins (Steel Force falls short on this list) and the airtime hops are "fun," but I haven't found that borderline painful, ejector craziness that's been spoken of, even in rows 1, 3, and the back. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but the meandering first half and turnaround don't help this ride. Honorable mentions go to Superman (SFA) and Apollo's Chariot (which I haven't ridden recently enough to judge). If you were to throw in giga coasters on this list, the last two would be booted in favor of Intimidator 305 and Millennium Force, my #3 and #4, respectively.

My handy dandy calendar says it's technically still 2016, so this is fully expected and as Bill pointed out I'm sure went into the planning schedule.

I've ridden Griffon and Valravn each about half a dozen times, but Griffon wasn't since 2011 so my opinion might be a little hazy. That said, I preferred Valravn slightly, but Griffon probably gave the more powerful ride per element. Valravn's second half (second quarter?) is really what makes it decent, at best. That said, I'm a big fan of both B&M's old and new models of coasters. I think they offer different flavors, and I like different things about each. With that in mind, Raptor is my favorite B&M at the park, followed by GateKeeper, with Valravn and Rougarou about equal--though "least favorite B&M at Cedar Point" is still a well above average coaster, and one that I'd be re-riding most of the day at any other park.

I love you Bill my kinda person

No.

I assume that if they intended to do so, they would've already had one at Cedar Point at this point given the opening of three more next year. Like how Great Adventure started theirs before SFA, if that makes sense. I just don't see it, unfortunately, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, sure, it really only does have one section where the layout is just a straight line when there could easily be another element (arguably another before the each helix), but that's not really what drags these rides (ROS and Superman) down. It's the general lack of pacing and extended transitions between elements (specifically before and after the first helix). What other hypercoaster has 100 feet of flat, straight track before a static (no change in elevation or banking) helix, followed up by a 300 foot straight section? On rides built in the same era (Millennium Force, SFNE Superman) every single bit of track is dynamic and has at least *something* going on. It's not just the straight section(s), it's the lack of any pacing or flow and the wasted, meaningless track between elements. And don't try to defend it and say "oh but it's still fun it has good airtime and it's tall and fast!" Yeah, it is. But what other 200 foot coaster is designed like that? Almost every single one has way more to it, sans *maybe* the old Morgan hypers. The only thing going to ROS is the stronger forces in the second half. That said, it's still a good ride. A very good ride, actually. Just not nearly as good as it could've been, which is what brings it down when you're wanting New England's Superman but get a slightly amped up Steel Force, basically.

See my post above this one. It is very possible at Banshee. Everything has to be running very smoothly. From the entrance to the separator to the bar checkers to the exit. As soon as the train stops, the bar checkers need to be in that train opening the seats, and ushering guests out and in. Some may have notices the lift has several speeds. If we can get a train out of the station right at 20 seconds after the scream it will literally crawl up the lift. I say this all the time. The longer the train is on the lift, the longer we have in the station to check seats. I am very proud of the work the Banshee crews have done. In 2017 I am hoping to be placed at Mystic, but will still be happy if I am placed at Banshee again. Maybe do a season at Mystic then go back to Banshee. Absolutely, I saw your post in the "favorite ride to operate" thread. Really interesting stuff, thanks for that. But the reality is that the majority of the time, you're not sending out 53 trains in an hour. You don't determine an average capacity based on what the ride could theoretically do that's really only been done for one hour in a ride's debut year. In most cases, I'd assume sending out somewhere closer to 45 trains in an hour (just a rough estimate), which is still really good. It's just not fair to say that Mystic Timbers' line will move 50% faster than Prowler's because Banshee's crew hit theoretical capacity once. It's just not gonna happen all the time, though I'm sure Mystic will be a little more efficient than Prowler--just not 15 trains an hour faster.

^I don't have any numbers but I don't see Diamondback coming anywhere remotely close to 1500 an hour since the addition of seatbelts. And Banshee is good, but they'd have to do 54 trains in an hour to get 1700, which I'd guess has happened maybe once in three years.

^THIS. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Woodstock Express is my favorite wood coaster at Kings Dominion. It's probably my number six or so at the park as well, and that's not a knock on Kings Dominion (though their bottom end of coasters is pretty crappy).

I think the additional costs of reworking the electrical components (all new sensors, brakes, etc) might outweigh the benefit of an additional 200 or so riders/hour, but I'd be interested to see some sort of analysis on that for sure.

^With its current blocking setup, the ride would not allow a second train. It's not a matter of "space between them" (what if the train isn't loaded on interval?), it's about block setup.

I think it would've been more disturbing if they had just put live fish in a few inches of water, then proceeded to freeze the water. I think the whole "I am s... s... suffocating" thing is what set it off for me. Who enjoys joking about the painful death of animals?

Yeah, let's see... Tallest: Kingda Ka Tallest wood drop/steepest wood: Goliath Longest wood: The Beast Best: El Toro

The Cedar Point thread stupidity has invaded another thread. Oh joy. It's generally accepted as fact that topper track is considered wood, and I know that the poster that brought it up is fully aware of that, regardless of their opinion on the matter. So why pretend as though you aren't aware of that? Just to start arguments? RMC considers them wood. Most people consider them wood, and everyone on this site with over 5000 posts knows that most people consider them wood. Moving on.

^That's correct.

The way I interpreted it was increased *ticket* prices, not season pass prices. Which it actually seems like they've been doing the last few years--I recall buying single day tickets for $40 anyday a few years back for Great Adventure, whereas now that's really only possible the occasional weekday/off peak season, with weekends and Fright Fest being $50 at the minimum.

I'd just like to add on that side note that Raging Bull's first drop is my *just* behind El Toro's for me. It's perfect, especially when you have a good 3 to 4 clicks and ops aren't touching the lapbar at all. I was well above the seat the entire drop and it was goddamn terrifying. I love that ride.

Having your phone with you when necessary (and in emergencies) is much, much different than "being a slave to your phone."

^ Not really "home" parks, but most frequented and nearby... Great Adventure 1. El Toro 2. Nitro 3. Batman 4. Kingda Ka 5. Bizarro 6. Superman 7. Skull Mountain 8. Green Lantern 9. Runaway Mine Train 10. Dark Knight 11. Blackbeard/Whatever Joker was closed when I visited last, but I feel like it'd be somewhere around 4-6. Kings Dominion 1. Intimidator 305 2. Dominator 3. Volcano 4. Flight of Fear 5. Uhhh... Backlot? 6. Woodstock Express Mediocre: Rebel Yell, Grizzly, Avalanche, Ricochet, Anaconda Six Flags America 1. Superman 2. Wild One 3. Joker's Jinx 4. Batwing 5. Roar 6. Ragin Cajun 7. Mind Eraser 8. Apocalypse

This is indeed surprising. I knew it would be down from last year since they lost early entry and Halloweekends Fridays this year but it's still a surprising number. I thought it was the worst coaster in the park when I visited this September. I'm not sure about everyone else but the head banging was to much! Medusa I didn't feel that way at all! I absolutely hated Mantis (much more than Green Lantern) and really enjoyed Rougarou. No, not as good as Dominator but a perfectly mediocre floorless with some kick, so it's surprising it's not popular. Just shows how the park it's in can play such a role.

Wow, congrats! The most Toro has done was about 1.6 million back in 2010 when the crews were allowed to sprint on the platform. I've always wished we could have the staffing your park has. It's a rare day in hell when we get more than 2 people to check any of the trains at our coasters. Do you know how many riders Valravn and Gatekeeper did this year? Gatekeeper was the most ridden roller coaster this season with 1.9 million this year. Best was 2 million opening year. Valravn was third with 1.6 million. Millennium was 2nd place this year. Magnum, Raptor, Gemini, Top Thrill Dragster, CP&LE Railroad, & Skyride all had over a million riders this season. I wish Six Flags would spend the money on staffing to have 4 people check the train. When I visited I saw a lot of ride ops moving fast, but they have double the amount of seats to check as one of CP's ride ops. Not Rougarou? So after two years now it really isn't much more popular than Mantis towards the end of its life, if I'm not mistaken? Interesting.

I think they made the switch because it's cheaper/easier/arguably "greener" but they hand out a booklet sometimes anyway. I think people using them less and still getting that perceived "value" was just a nice result that came out of it, assuming fewer people actually use them.