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^I agree. The reason I brought it up is because it could probably benefit SFA more than it does Great Adventure now. Also, I agree that they probably don't want to remove a coaster for their next one in 2015, if not 2016. However, if they happen to, removing Bizarro would allow them to expand in RT's area and connect that back to Frontier Adventures. Not exactly what I'd want, but Bizarro is likely the coaster that would be removed (other than maybe Superman) if they were asked to rotate one.

Back to what I said about Fast Lane, I didn't mean to criticize CP and complain about the system. I was trying to state my opinion, and I am fine if you all have different opinions. It's an opinion- just from my experience for one day, and I said what I thought about it. I am we'll aware that you can never really "skip lines" at Cedar Point in July, however, I feel that if I am paying $80 to wait in a shorter line, the line should be considerably shorter. Im not saying it should be a 5 minute wait when the standby is 3 hours, but i dont think its fair to walk up to a full Fast Lane queue after paying that much. That is what I think, if you think differently, I have no problem with that, and I appreciate your input so I can better plan if I ever get to Cedar Point again. As for the Flash Pass, I've never used it myself, nut I plan to at Six Flags Great Adventure this July. I'll probably get gold, which is close in cost to regular Fast Lane, so I'll make my opinion from that, this summer. Back to coasters... I was talking more about the coaster type, not CP's two year plan. But okay, I was just trying to move the conversation forward.

I think CP is realizing that they need something with a big draw and high capacity. A wild mouse would be cool, but I think a dark ride like CW's guardian would take care of that. Speaking of that, if that is a success, CP is probably next on the list for that. I've heard talk of a polar coaster because they said something about coasters being in their DNA at the winter chill out. I've heard Six Flags say that before, so I don't think the fact that a polar coaster sorta looks like DNA is hinting at that. Even though it could reclaim the height record from Kingda Ka, I dot see CP getting that until it's a proven success, if it ever is. So what are they going to get? I've heard rumors about some kind of flying coaster over water, but I don't see that happening as GateKeeper is trying to get the park further off the beach. Maybe RMC Mean Streak, but I'm not so sure on that one. We'll see.

^ I agree, my home park is SFA, but I occasionally visit Great Adventure. Bizarro is one of my favorites at the park, behind only the big three. I just think SFA would benefit more from Bizarro than Great Adventure does currently, and it would allow Great Adventure to expand and connect dead ends.

This is the last thing I'm going to stay on the topic, it's getting kind if old. I DO NOT have a problem with SFA having clones, and it makes financial sense, and yes, SFA's lineup is diverse and unique for what is nearby. I also agree that the GP doesn't know and doesn't care that they're clones. Unless they've ridden it at another park, it shouldn't matter, and I don't think it does, in the context. What I'm arguing is that with their current lineup, however diverse and unique it is (which it is), simply can't draw the attention/grab the headlines that KD does with with I-305, or BGW with their three hypers (Apollos Chariot, Griffon, and Alpengeist is only 5 feet under). Yes, the overwhelming majority of SFA visitors will have no idea they're clones, and that won't make a difference, and most will think Superman is a great coaster, which locally, it is. For SFA to genuinely compete with these "local regionals," they're going to need not just something the others don't have like they do in Batwing, but something that can grab news headlines and make people want to visit the park, not just because they're in the area. This is what I-305 did. It does the exact same job as Superman, but it also grabs national attention that will make people go OUT OF THEIR WAY to ride it. And Superman will never do that. Okay, that's all. If you want to continue with this friendly debate, feel free to PM me, I'd love to continue, but it's time to move on in the thread.

I agree, the back of the park seems like it was planned by a lizard. I know they had plans to add more coasters after Batwing, maybe they were going to go around there. Also, as for Superman, it is a decent hypercoaster that was seen as cutting edge for a while. I don't have a major problem with it, but it cannot compete with the hypers/headliners of the nearby regional parks. It just doesn't have the draw of a "The tallest coaster in the southeast" (I-305). I'm not saying SFA needs. A Giga, but they need something unique in the region that will be a draw for more than just locals and credit seekers.

I knew going in that it was going to be very busy the day I went, and I am not blaming CP at all for that. In fact, I thought CP's operations were stellar. However, when we paid around $80 each to skip lines, what we expected was to get the extra rides that we paid to get. As to whether I would have been upset if they ran out, we knew that they may run out, which they probably did at some point, so we ordered them online far in advance. Our trip was returning to the east coast after a college visit with my brother in Indiana. We decided to stay in Breakers Express for a night and buy Fast Lane tickets in hopes of riding as many coasters as we could. Adding this all together, between hotel/tickets and Fast Lane, we probably added and extra $350 or so to our trip expense. We knew we wanted to get multiple rides on MF, Maverick, and Dragster. We got 2x on MF, 1x on Maverick, and 1x on Dragster right when it opened because you had to pay an extra $15 for Fast Lane Plus, which we didn't feel was worth it. My point is, if you are paying that much extra in order to skip lines, that is what you should get. I don't think it's right to still wait over an hour after paying to do the opposite. Selling less would fix that, but I understand that's probably not going to happen, which really is a shame for as I said, those waiting in the regular line for 3 hours for Maverick, and not much less for $80 more. My goal wasn't to come on here and just complain, I had a fantastic day at Cedar Point and hope to get back there sometime soon if possible. I just wanted to point out a problem to get some feedback, because I don't think it is fair to advertise skipping long lines when you are really just waiting in a separate, slightly shorter line.

If you look at nearby competition (KD, BGW, and SFGadv), it cannot grab attention to make people want to visit SFA over another nearby option. Sure, it is a good coaster, as is Wild One, and I agree with you, SFA's collection is not as bad as many say, however, they don't have any coasters that can compete with nearby headliners(Intimidator 305, Griffon/Apollo's Chariot, El Toro, Nitro, Kingda Ka). I have no problem knowing that Darien Lake has a mirrored clone of Superman, but SFA's lineup is not going to grab attention from these nearby competitors that have higher attendance and nationally ranked coasters. If SFA was inclined to build an I-305 clone, that would grab attention and make them competitors regardless that it's a clone. However, their current coasters aren't going to grab regional, and by no means national attention.

I don't live near Cedar Point at all, and visited my first and possibly only time last summer with my family, and was luckily able to convince my family to splurge for regular Fast Lane keeping in mind we may never be back. We got the early entry, but even with all this, could only ride Maverick once during the day because the FAST LANE line was spilling out of the queue. Granted, I expected large crowds visiting July 4th weekend, but for spending almost $80 each on top of ticket price, I was disappointed. It really isn't right for CP to sell so many skip the line passes. Its unfair not only for those waiting in the standby queue, but even for those that plopped down hundreds of dollars to have a great day that they'd like to remember. If I'm paying that much money to skip lines because I only have one day, I want to get what I paid for, and I certainly did not.

This is a past rumor that has pretty much been dismissed, but I think relocating Bizarro from SFGadv to SFA wouldn't be a bad idea. It is likely that Great Adventure is getting a coaster in 2015 or 2016, so why not give SFA something they need (a good B&M) and give remove a dead end from Great Advenure, allowing them to connect three current dead ends (Golden Kingdom, Plaza del Carnaval, and Frontier Adventures). Bizarro's ridership is lower than many of their other coasters, and with a rumored B&M 4D prototype or an RMC, why not give it to the park that needs it most? What do you all think?

Anyone notice on the CP website that Fast Lane Plus is now Dragster and Maverick, not GateKeeper?

Adding on to what I was mentioning, it doesn't really make a difference if a ride is a clone or not, as most people won't know that. However, when all you have is clones/relocations, there are no headliners in your park simply because it is not unique, and and will not draw attention. For example, take Kings Dominion. Why are its coasters better than SFA? One headliner, along with a few unique supporting coasters like Volcano and Dominator. Do most of the park visitors know that Dominator is relocated? Absolutely not. So why should people care if SFA's are clones/relocated? Because they don't have a headliner to draw attention to the park and make it unique from other parks in any way. Without I-305, Kings Dominion wouldn't be as popular, and that's the truth. Sure, KD is more family friendly and has better atmosphere, but that doesn't draw people as much as having the only Giga coaster on the east coast, and only one of four worldwide. So what should SFA do, in my opinion? Well, before they consider building any new $20 million dollar coasters, they need to improve the park as a whole. I-305 helped KD greatly, but it was already a very good park because of what I previously mentioned. SFA needs to improve atmosphere, shade, guest services, and operations before they roll the on something big. The park has a diverse coaster collection, regardless of whether they are clones or not. They need to attract families that will SPEND MONEY at the park and improve their reputation, which they have been doing steadily the past five years or so. In fact, I'm getting an SFA season pass this year. However, due to what I mentioned, I will likely be visiting Six Flags Great Adventure more often than SFA.

Oblivion

If you live between the two parks, or it's 2 hours mot SFA and 3 hours to Dorney, people would likely be more down to Dorney or Great Adventure. There is no big draw to SFA, and that makes it more difficult to compete with regional parks.

SFA's problem is that they are surrounded by larger regional parks that they can't compete with in any category. Especially coasters. I live less then 50 miles from the park and around 100 miles from Kings Dominion, and last fall I planned a trip to SFA with my friends. None of them had heard of it, and one was saying that he can't wait to ride the Intimidator. I completely understand why SFA is overlooked regionally, with KD, BGW, SFGadv, Dorney, and possibly others I'm forgetting. They just can't compete. They need something that will catch attention, something that you just can't get at other regional parks.

My point is that there isn't one coaster at SFA that you can't/couldn't ride at another park at some point. There is no one coaster that is specific to SFA, and opening one season before it's clone one the 90's doesn't mean it is an SFA original that draws people to the park. Here is what I mean: Superman- Mirror image of Darien Lake's Ride of Steel Batwing- Clone of Nighthawk at Carowinds, there is one more elsewhere in country I believe Joker's Jinx- Clone of Flight of Fear coasters and Poltergeist at Fiesta Texas Mind Eraser- It's an SLC. There are enough of these that people don't want to ride Roar- Slightly tweaked then cloned at SFDK. It doesn't make a difference which was first, it's a clone. Wild One- Not a clone, but relocated Apocalypse- Relocated Ragin' Cajun- Relocated Being a clone DOESN'T mean a coaster is bad, it just means that it isn't unique to that park, and could be ridden elsewhere.

Nitro's helix. I gray out more on that than I-305's first curve.

I wouldn't say it's a dump for used coasters, as I believe Ragin' Cajun is only their second (excluding Wild One). Also, I'd much rather have a used coaster than no coaster, which is likely the alternative. However, I believe what takes away all the character from these coasters is that every single coaster at SFA is either relocated or a clone. Not that clones are bad coasters, as to my knowledge they are slightly cheaper for the park, and they can be world class coasters (Superman when it opened was top of the line, now it's a tame, older hyper coaster). However, when EVERY roller coaster is a clone, the park loses any the draw of having nine coasters when you can just go to another park and ride the exact same ride.

^ Sorry if I came off sounding too negative- that's not what I'm trying to do at all. The point I was trying to get across is that to ME, it seems unlikely they'd paint the pad based on the fact they haven't announced any additional theme elements for the ride. I was also quite disappointed that Six Flags finds it unrealistic to open a relocated portable wild mouse on time for opening day. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE that SFA is making strides like this, especially being my home park. Given it isn't a retheme like the Joker, I don't expect them to change what they had at SFGam. But maybe SFA will surprise me- that would be great!

Doing some quick calculations, they were dispatching a train about every five minutes with one 24 passenger train. Assuming about 22 on each train, they're getting under 300/hour. Batwing has a dual loading station and a sitting train.

I give it a 5% chance they paint the Ragin' Cajun pad. It wasn't painted at SFGam, and isn't a heavily themed coaster like the Joker. Given it hasn't even gone vertical yet, it's probably past the time frame of painting the pad. I can only hope they use the front/entrance facade used at SFGam, it looked pretty cool. On another topic, just out of curiosity, I've been hearing lately about how horrible SFA's operations are. I waited about an hour the last Saturday for 2013 FF for Batwing with one train operation My question is: How far from estimated capacities is SFA? Batwing I would assume around est. 1200/hour, but with one train ops at SFA were probably pulling far from that.

This is my first post on ThemeParkReview, so I thought it would be fitting to post in the thread of my "home park away from home" (home park being SFA), and my favorite Six Flags park. The 2014 season looks to be really exciting for Great Adventure, and while I'll miss Rolling Thunder, I'm all for progress and future expansion. Let's hope Six Flags does this transition right and doesn't leave a glaring hole in their 40 year history.