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Why did CCI fail?


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A lot of people believe that Denise Dinn was responsible for the downfall of CCI. The previously cited examples of how low CCI's prices were give a pretty good idea of her business sense. In fact, I think she has been let go by S&S too! I also don't think it is an accident that she wasn't able to bring the majority of the CCI designers that went on to form Gravity Group with her....

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^ True. When Shivering Timbers costs about the same as the Ozark Wildcat, you know there is a pricing problem.

 

Me and a friend were discussing this once and I imagine a straight out and back is cheaper due to using ALL of the board of wood for the track. (But still thats alot more wood)

 

Also I think you pay for what you get...Most CCI's did not impress me too much and it seems like they were built to be great rides for one season, They all seem like maintenance nightmares. IMO I think a GCI is a far more quality product.

 

JEFF

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Also I think you pay for what you get...Most CCI's did not impress me too much and it seems like they were built to be great rides for one season, They all seem like maintenance nightmares. IMO I think a GCI is a far more quality product.

 

JEFF

 

Well, the New Mexico Rattler has held up pretty well, I don't think thats the case at all, if anyone neglects a ride it will have problems.

 

Cliff's paid 2 million for the Rattler, a Bargian, and the coaster is pretty well taken care of, and it just takes some standard maintence to keep the coaster going.

 

Its the same as your car, if you buy it, and never do anything to keep it running good, it will start running like crap in a few years, no matter if its a Chevy, or a Honda

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^ True. When Shivering Timbers costs about the same as the Ozark Wildcat, you know there is a pricing problem.

 

Me and a friend were discussing this once and I imagine a straight out and back is cheaper due to using ALL of the board of wood for the track. (But still thats alot more wood)

 

 

JEFF

 

That might be true.

 

But the point is that Timbers is much taller then Ozark Wildcat. So really Timbers should cost alot more.

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Well, the New Mexico Rattler has held up pretty well, I don't think thats the case at all, if anyone neglects a ride it will have problems.

 

You can thank Cliffs for the way that the New Mexico Rattler. CCI went out of business with less than half of the coaster complete. Cliffs completed the construction.

 

Me and a friend were discussing this once and I imagine a straight out and back is cheaper due to using ALL of the board of wood for the track. (But still thats alot more wood)

 

Have you ever seen how massive Shivering Timbers is? It has to have at least 3X the materials of Ozark.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/mn/RunawayMT/1/100pt2.html

 

Just to get an idea.

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I always thought Timbers had a really weird support structure.

 

The supports on the lift hill are much wider then is normally used.

 

Such a waste of wood. Timbers is the perfect example of how wooden coasters don't follow "bigger is better".

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Me and a friend were discussing this once and I imagine a straight out and back is cheaper due to using ALL of the board of wood for the track. (But still thats alot more wood)

 

Have you ever seen how massive Shivering Timbers is? It has to have at least 3X the materials of Ozark.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/mn/RunawayMT/1/100pt2.html

 

Just to get an idea.

 

That is why I stated "But still that is alot more wood".....................

 

and yes I have seen it, ridden it, bored me to tears but thats another thread

 

JEFF

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There was alot more to the demise of CCI than people think.

 

First Lets cover some of the crap Denise Dinn pulled

 

-She would bid the lowest possable price just to get a project...reguardless if it was financially sound

-By getting into this habbit she ended up playing off the end of previous project when she signed for the upcoming projects.

-When Denise 'finished' a project and had packed up and left it wasn't uncommion for a park to then start getting phone calls from all types of (mostly local) companies (such as lumber yards and such) wondering where their money was.

-A good amount of the rides out there were somewhat underbuilt (with exception of the parks who learned they had to watch Denise every step of the way).

-If Denise got behind on a project she would never take the blame instead she'd lie and falsely blame vendors involved with the project.

-The only reason we started to see the Gerstlauer was because Denise owed a crap load of money to PTC. Also the Gerstlauer trains did actually cost a little bit more (hell they did have to be shipped overseas).

-From about 1998/1999 or so on all PTCs that went on CCIs were because the parks knew that the Gerstlauers Denise was trying to dump on them were in no comparison to PTCs. In these cases PTC would pretty much only deal with the park directly.

-Also about Cliff's...aside from being left to finish the project themself of course with two weeks of payroll...unpayed. Well the entire projected ended up costing Cliffs about 1 million more than originally quoted by by CCI.

 

What ended it all....

-Well since Denise Dinn-Larrick and Randy Larrick owned the company 50/50 the divorce is what closed the company.

-But ya...ha what many people don't know the true reason for the divorce...ya, Denise was having an affair with one of the CCI employies.

-When the company closed it owed MILLIONS to many companies (from PTC to webhosting). Well for some reason some idoit judge about a half year after the company closed ruled poor little Denise not financially responable for all the money she owed. I know of one company that is still to this day recovering from their losses.

 

Denise after CCI

 

-Everyone knows she moved on to S&S...

-Well it wasn't long until she was up to her old tricks again

-She was let go from S&S around the time J2 at Clementon Amusement Park opened

-I've heard she now with some small company in FL, not sure which though.

 

Well there is the "real" truth...Denise Dinn was and still is nothing but a crook...

Thanks the engineers (basically what is The Gravity Group today) for the awesome rides they produced...

Oh and BTW from what i've heard her father wasn't much different....

I could probably go on a lot longer but i think you've got the point....

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Also I think you pay for what you get...Most CCI's did not impress me too much and it seems like they were built to be great rides for one season, They all seem like maintenance nightmares. IMO I think a GCI is a far more quality product.

 

JEFF

 

CCI's aren't all maintenance nightmares. Some of the ones I've ridden have held up well are: Raven, Legend, Silver Comet, Cornball Express, Cyclops. The latter three are run at parks that don't have huge maintenance budgets, but they take care of their rides. When it comes to wooden coasters, it's up to parks to make sure the rides run well.

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-But ya...ha what many people don't know the true reason for the divorce...ya, Denise was having an affair with one of the CCI employies.

 

Holy crap, this is some serious soap opera crap here. Who thinks we should write a spec script for Fox? "The OCCI" or something.

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If that's all true it came as a shock to CCI's bank, because I heard there's no way they could have owed MILLIONS without the bank knowing what was up. All companies operate with loans, especially one involved with building such huge projects as coasters. The company may have went under before paying off one such loan, but personal attacks on Denise without citing sources I tend to take with a grain of salt. As I stated before, I spent a lot of time in the CCI offices, and I think they made great rides. I also know she keeps in touch with ride message boards, and I think you should be careful what you say. This forum IMO is not about personal feelings towards anyone, it's about coasters, and you can't tell me Raven, Legend, Cornball... (I could go on, but we'll leave it in indiana) are great coasters we all enjoy riding. That's the bottom line.

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Well, the New Mexico Rattler has held up pretty well, I don't think thats the case at all, if anyone neglects a ride it will have problems.

 

You can thank Cliffs for the way that the New Mexico Rattler. CCI went out of business with less than half of the coaster complete. Cliffs completed the construction.

 

 

You are right, I have met some of the people who worked on the Rattler after CCI went under, and it was VERY difficult, alot of custom made metal parts, alot of them made right here in Albuquerque by local businesses, so they finished it off right.

 

I'm not sure that has anything to do with how well it has held up, CCI REALLY left Cliff's hanging, the good news is they handled it PERFECTLY!!, and even though it opened late, and cost and extra Million, 3 mil for a decent sized good coaster is VERY cheap!!!!

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From what I understand CCI used grade 2 lumber rather than top grade lumber when building their coasters. That was one reason they were so reasonably priced. The problem was that while most of their rides were excellent the first few years, without the needed maintenance they became rough. I'm sure the maintenance these rides required was much more than parks anticipated. Look at Cheetah and Villain (now rough) compared to the HW or Silverwood coasters (always great). CCI had great designs but the construction and quality of the structrues was cheap.

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