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B&M... getting better?


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For a while, people were getting rather irritated with B&M in coaster circles. People were complaining about them going too smooth, and not intense enough. All sorts of reviews ending in "meh".

 

Do you think they're on the path toward improvement?

 

Last season, SheiKra was touted as one of the best B&Ms in years. Goliath at SFOG is getting absolutely fantastic reviews. Patriot is shaping up to be a real winner.

 

Black Mamba, before much else was known about it, was stated to be more intense than B&M recommended.

 

Do people here think they're doing better than they were two, three years ago? Do you think B&M has listened to the coaster fans?

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I still would rather have the B&M from the 90's....I hate to see trims every 500ft on coasters. Sheikra looks fun...but Dive Machines do not look too impressive to me...I do not like the whole idea of the holding brake....just seems like this "anticipation" card they play is B.S. to me....I would rather just whip right over the drop.

It just seems like a 90 degree drop is not as OMG as it was back in 1998 (or maybe it is just cause I have a 90 degree drop coaster at my home park.)

 

B&M's just are not as intense as they were.........

 

JEFF

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How is Patriot shaping up to be a real winner? Looks to me more and more like Talon, which IMO, is one of the weakest B&M's out there.

 

I think it's fair to say that yes, they've had a couple of better rides lately, but that doesn't equal sudden drastic change.

 

When they build another Nemesis or Dragons and they can do it more consistently, then I'd be a beleiver!

 

I like B&M rides, don't get me wrong, but I still prefer the early B&Ms than those built in the past 5 or 6 years.

 

--Robb

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It's totally possible it's just my imagination, but it just seems the feedback I've heard on this year's B&Ms (and SheiKra) have been mostly positive so far. Language along the lines of "surprisingly forceful", "more intense than most B&Ms lately", etc.

 

Patriot, of course it's too early to see how the majority (of fans, anyway) will receive it. But there's at least one positive review out already. Okay, so I jumped to conclusions on that.

 

But I'm not saying anything drastic is going on here. Just that, it seems maybe B&M is actually listening. That maybe they're getting back on track. Black Mamba certainly sounds fantastic. Goliath seems to be a big hit.

 

Hmm, maybe I'm too tired to sustain an argument at this hour....

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I think it's really hit or miss depending on what the park's are contracting them to buy.

 

I don't think they've had a real "challenge" from a park in a while, or at least up until SheiKra. A lot of the coasters they've done in the past few years felt like they were off the shelf. They're still better than almost every other coaster out there even when they feel like we've seen/ridden them all before.

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I think GACoaster hit it on the head when they said that it's really still all about what the parks want.

 

Take Hydra for example; it's a smaller B&M which could mean a good ride but with it's oddly large shaped elements it's more of a forceless than a floorless.

 

I doubt Patriot has any real forces to it, the vast majority of reviews I've seen are from WOF fans, so that bias cannot be overlooked.

 

Mike

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First off, I LOVE your avatar MJHammer1. I have that t shirt.

 

Now onto B&M. I would have to see more reviews for Patriot before saying it's better then the newer ones. Black Mamba does look very good.

For SheiKra, I agree with CoasterFanatic. Take a ride on Hulk or Dragons after that and you will be surprised. Hulk has a great beginning while Fire Dragon has a intense 1-2-3 punch no new B&M invert can top. (Immelmann,airtime hill and being whipped into the 2nd Immelmann)

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I always had much love for B&M coaster not just for the ride but because they are some sexy looking machines. Now todays coasters they make are generally hit or miss to me but, hey at least they are still building!

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I don't think anyone is making the argument that Sheikra is intense. I certainly didn't find it very intense, even the vertical drops were a lot less jarring than I thought they'd be. Sheikra just a ton of fun with a lot of re-rideabilty (especially the YAY). Plus, it's unique, which always helps.

 

Kumba, now that was intense, almost too much for me. There's no way I could marathon on that.

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I also attended the Patriot media day. I am a WOF homer as my name would indicate. As a WOF season passport holder I am totally juiced to have the ride. As a coaster fan, I am a little disappointed. It does not compare to other B&M inverts that I have been on such as Raptor, DD, and Montu. The drop is so-so, the zero-g roll doesn't seem to give much float time, the Immelman seems to kill momentum, the inclined bank curve has little to no force, and the elements are so spaced that the excitement seems interrupted.

To get back on topic, I don't think B&M ever had weak rides. They for the most part are all great rides. Some years are just off years. Post 9/11, travel was down and it just wasn't good years to build a monster investment. I also think that they were just getting asked for smaller, cheaper rides from parks. Patriot is not a bad B&M coaster, it is just for a park that can't afford their very best effort. By going from 05-07 they will have built SheiKra, Tatsu, Goliath at 2 parks, probably another dive coaster at BGW, and probably one of their best coasters ever at CP if they are the manufacturer producing that one.

B&M is still the Lexus of roller coasters and probably will be for years to come. Ride them and enjoy them.

On a side note, Bolliger was at the opening of Tatsu. I talked to him breifly. I don't think that he understands English that great. It was cool to meet a coaster legend though.

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Two replys:

1. Sorry, media day for Patriot, not Tatsu. Sorry.

 

2. Lets look at CP track record over the past 20 years

 

1987 - Iron Dragon - The world's longest inverted

2 years later

1989 - Magnum - World's tallest fastest coaster and still a top coaster to this day

Two years later

1991 - Mean Streak - The tallest woodie in the world

3 years later

1994 - Raptor - Tallest fastest inverted in the world

2 years later

1996 - Mantis - Tallest fastest longest stand up in the world

4 years later

2000 - Millenium Force - Tallest fastest coaster in the world

2 years later

2002 - Wicked Twister - Tallest fastest inverted in the world

1 year later

2003 - Top Thrill Dragster - Tallest fastest coaster in the world

It will be 4 years since the last coaster in 2007

 

I know that records don't make coasters great, but chances are that whatever they do next year will be something big and more than likely record setting. They have never built a clone in the last 20 years, so it probably is going to be an original design. Chances are that it will be good. So if B&M is doing it (which is a decent chance) it could be one of their masterpieces.

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"Could" be.

 

I'd wait until we find out what the ride is before claiming it to be the worlds next #1 coaster.

 

The whole "Cedar Point built it so that means it's better then anything else" is getting tiresome.

 

They could build a very average ride and it would still be trumped as the best the world has ever seen.

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I actually think the "depends on the park" answer is probably the most accurate.

 

SheiKra has an intense spot or two, but y'all are right that it's an entirely different beast from the other beamers in the park. And that's good -- a good park has a decent variety in ride experience. SheiKra fits BGTB perfectly.

 

I guess the point was, B&M seems to be building fewer "blah" coasters this year. It's been a while since they've put out so many coasters worth traversing the country (and world?) to ride.

 

And in Black Mamba's case, it sounds like the park asked for a harsher beast than B&M has made in a while, and it sounds like that's what they're getting. It's certainly good to know they're still in that business.

 

Though I should probably wait til it's actually finished to jump to conclusions like that.

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Brings to mind something i was thinking of the other day

 

what to people think of the removal of B&M's mid courses? almost every coaster they built for a prolonged period of time had one. Untill recently when they seemed to of scraped them

 

i know some people think they kill a ride and some like them for a pacing point of view.....

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They don't just add MCBRs to piss off enthusiasts. A MCBR lets the coaster run 3 trains. It's just a case (once again) where the PARK decides they don't want to run 3 trains, so no MCBR is required. Once again, it all comes back to the park building it. I'm sure Claude & Walter will build whatever a park is willing to pay for.

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