Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[ZeroGravity55]

^ ahh never even heard of it.

[Sf-Dad]

From talking to people in line at the park I think they were successful in marketing Boomerang as new. The reaction I get when I mention it is a 24 year old reject from Texas is priceless. They look at me like I am full of it and stop talking to me. Lipstick on a pig can work. Not that I have heard anyone rave about it.

 

Regarding the flash pass at HH, i haven't seen the booth open at all this year, but I have not gone on a weekend. I would be hard pressed to buy one because last year it would have not helped you much as they never seemed to control the number of people they let on the towers so there was a huge wait anyway on busy days.

[HARLEYGUYJB]

I still haven't rode it yet..The times that I want to to ride it..it's closed. I don't think I'm missing much..

[SteveStL]

I have said it before and I will say it again ... if you build it, they will come. People have argued with me, but those arguments have not swayed my opinion. Those folks say SFSTL must earn the attendance first - nah, no way. The park is 42 years old, there is nothing else to earn. It needs some major capital investment and quick. The park is well into its lifespan, its senior years. It needs a re-birth, otherwise it will stay stagnant and eventually close or go under different mgmt.

[Sf-Dad]

I have said it before and I will say it again ... if you build it, they will come. People have argued with me, but those arguments have not swayed my opinion. Those folks say SFSTL must earn the attendance first - nah, no way. The park is 42 years old, there is nothing else to earn. It needs some major capital investment and quick. The park is well into its lifespan, its senior years. It needs a re-birth, otherwise it will stay stagnant and eventually close or go under different mgmt.

 

I agree completely with the first part. There is little they can do to increase attendance with marketing tactics alone. For people like me the season dinning pass gets me there more often but they sure don't make much money off of it. I have my eight meals in so the rest of the season is gravy. They get some sodas and ice cream for my kids though.

 

Most business models are built on a growth and there has been no capital investment in recent years, just minor maintenance and replacing rides. Even Thunder River is starting to look shabby, how hard can it be to fix fake rocks? So yes, stagnation is the likely future of this park.

 

The $20 parking fee cheeses a lot of people off and really sends the message "We exist to screw you" before patrons even enter the gates. That needs to stop. I also remember as a kid they had a tram service in the parking lot, not sure when that ended but it sure sent the message "We care about you". Now it is $25 for a reasonable parking spot. They want to increase attendance, make it as easy as possible for people to get in, not hard.

[prozach626]

I know many of you have already noticed it, but the coasters wars are back on. The economy is starting to slowly come back around and people are having a little extra cash to spare. That being said, I honestly think people are seeing the "bigger/faster/record breaking costers" within driving distance and they are reaching out for them instead of going to the "same old six flags St. Louis." If the park is going to get something big, it's going to have go be within the next couple of years. If not, I really think it's going to put the park way behind the curve. Holiday World has the potential of putting a game changing roller coaster in that could really put the hurt on our park. It will only get worse if WOF comes out with another large scale coaster, especially since so many people from St. Louis have family and friends in Kansas City.

 

I'm even seeing people on the site who were very optimistic just a couple years ago who are starting to get discouraged. It's not good when even your loyal season pass holders are starting to back out.

 

That being said, I feel that it's likely the Boss will get the Iron Horse treatment from RMC. However, from the looks of it the update will likely come too late when it doesn't draw the hype that it used to. The time for the conversion to be most effective would have probably been last year, before Goliath came into view. Although it would be an enthusiast pleaser for sure, it likely won't have as much success with the GP. Also considering the fact that within the last few years another one our existing rides, Mr Freeze, was already updated and marketed as a "New" ride.

 

I really hope thing change, soon.

[Sf-Dad]

I haven't been on The Boss yet this season, but last year twice was my max tolerance in a day. Would love to see a RMC retrack but how do you sell it? "The New and Improved Boss"? From a GP standpoint it just sounds lame. You mean you did what you should have been doing all along and maintaining your coasters? How are they selling it at other parks?

[jynx242]

I've often wondered why this park doesn't operate like SFoG. It is an even older park - but is maintained well and gets regular updates. Sure - it doesn't have an RMC, but it has 4 B&M's, DDD, two woodies, the standard mine train, a vekoma death machine, the best Schwartzkopf in the country (in my opinion ) and a kiddie.

 

Does it just pull in larger numbers each year?

[SteveStL]

but it has 4 B&M's, DDD, two woodies, the standard mine train, a vekoma death machine, the best Schwartzkopf in the country

I think you answered your own question.

[parkjunkie]

SFSTL is definitely having a rough year, attendance is ehhhh! Weather has played a small role in this, but not as much as you would think. It makes me SO SAD to see this park the way it sits now. Back in the late 70's thru the 80"s, SFSTL was one of the top parks in the country, not including the Disney chain. SFSTL was ranked top in cleanliness, most beautiful, and friendliness IN THE USA!!! Crowds then were 2,000,000+ a year.... think about that compared to now where the park sits around 1 mil + guests a year and its practically doubled in size Then, SFSTL had half of what it is now... half the coasters, half the rides and half of itself because there was no water park. In the mid 90's, the era of neglect hit this beautiful park, less TLC, less additions, less of everything while parks everywhere else started building bigger and started thinking outside the box. I just don't get how this all happened. Just think if 25 years ago, parks like SFGAM or KI would have been neglected like us. If SFSTL would have continued to add and grow... and I mean with ORIGINAL coasters, NOT CLONES, we would still be sitting pretty high, and having crowds that SFGAM or KI sees, if not more. If you look at SFOT and SFOG, the 2 other ORIGINAL Six Flags parks, do they look like they are in shambles..... NO, so why is SFSTL!!!???

Edited December 9, 2015 by parkjunkie

[SteveStL]

I agree with you but we did get Batman, Freeze and HH in the 90's. ...The Boss was a disappointment when everyone else was getting Hypers and other monster coasters. Then we got all of Astrowold's used rides.

[Koasterking48]

I've often wondered why this park doesn't operate like SFoG. It is an even older park - but is maintained well and gets regular updates. Sure - it doesn't have an RMC, but it has 4 B&M's, DDD, two woodies, the standard mine train, a vekoma death machine, the best Schwartzkopf in the country (in my opinion ) and a kiddie.

 

Does it just pull in larger numbers each year?

Comparing to a three woodies, the standard mine train, a kiddie, 1 B&M, the standard spinner, Mr Freeze, and a Boomerang. SFOG has a better lineup when you compare the two. I think St. Louis and Atlanta are two completely different markets. SFOG dominates it's region being the premier park of Georgia and most of Alabama. Wild Adventures and Splash Adventure are the only two "rivals" I can think of. But even then, those two arent nearly developed like SFOG. On the other hand, I feel like SFStL has more competition in its region, being Holiday World, Worlds of Fun, Silver Dollar City and, as a bit of a stretch, Kings Island or SFGA. All of those parks listed have a great coaster lineup (though WoF is probably the weakest) and pull in lots of people.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I know that people in my town and region would rather go to Kings Island (which is 4 hours from Vincennes) than Six Flags (Which is 3). They aren't dumb and can recognize that the park that is farther away has the better lineup. As prozach said, the economy is picking up, and SFSTL has arguably one of the weaker coaster lineups of the chain. Even an RMC conversion of The Boss is not enough to really have a world-class coaster collection. They're going to have to think bigger and better.

[parkjunkie]

I agree with you but we did get Batman, Freeze and HH in the 90's. ...The Boss was a disappointment when everyone else was getting Hypers and other monster coasters. Then we got all of Astrowold's used rides.

 

I agree to an extent with you on that. What were Batman and Freeze though.... they were CLONES, this is where SFSTL started getting screwed. Now, I completely understand that almost EVERY Sis Flags park received a BATMAN at some point, but I have ALWAYS thought, that FREEZE was the biggest waste for Thunder Island, that island could have held something SOOOO much better than Freeze

[ArizonaGuy]

I agree with you but we did get Batman, Freeze and HH in the 90's. ...The Boss was a disappointment when everyone else was getting Hypers and other monster coasters. Then we got all of Astrowold's used rides.

 

Dungeon Drop and what else???

[HARLEYGUYJB]

XCalibur was used from some other park

[SteveStL]

I agree with you but we did get Batman, Freeze and HH in the 90's. ...The Boss was a disappointment when everyone else was getting Hypers and other monster coasters. Then we got all of Astrowold's used rides.

 

Dungeon Drop and what else???

 

A few Kiddie rides, then something from that other Texas Park

[pixelated85]

I agree with you but we did get Batman, Freeze and HH in the 90's. ...The Boss was a disappointment when everyone else was getting Hypers and other monster coasters. Then we got all of Astrowold's used rides.

 

I agree to an extent with you on that. What were Batman and Freeze though.... they were CLONES, this is where SFSTL started getting screwed. Now, I completely understand that almost EVERY Sis Flags park received a BATMAN at some point, but I have ALWAYS thought, that FREEZE was the biggest waste for Thunder Island, that island could have held something SOOOO much better than Freeze

 

I would disagree with Freeze being a waste of that space. If I put on my "GP" helmet and look at it objectively, Freeze is a really intense, fun ride packed into that small footprint. Being that it's 15+ years old, I can't really think of anything that existed back then that would've been a better choice. To add to that, I think that 5 year period where they added Batman, Freeze and the Boss was the best thing that's happened to the park. Before that, we were rockin like 3 adult-sized coasters. Growing up I didn't think I'd ever see a ride even close to resembling Freeze coming to our park.

[ZeroGravity55]

I have said it before and I will say it again ... if you build it, they will come. People have argued with me, but those arguments have not swayed my opinion. Those folks say SFSTL must earn the attendance first - nah, no way. The park is 42 years old, there is nothing else to earn. It needs some major capital investment and quick. The park is well into its lifespan, its senior years. It needs a re-birth, otherwise it will stay stagnant and eventually close or go under different mgmt.

 

Apparently corporate has a different view than you do... "If we move it, they will come". I agree with you in the fact that the park needs a renaissance. In this instance, I put most of the blame on corporate, but I also think some of the blame falls on people running the park also. You've got to fight for your park. They can say what they want, but there was no logical reason in adding Boomerang other than upping your coaster count and making the irrelevant statement that you're the coaster capital of Missouri. How they can even logic that it was an appropriate response to one of their competitors building probably the most technological ground breaking roller coaster in the last 20-30 years is beyond me. Sometimes there are too many yes men in this world, but in this situation I get the feeling that if you don't agree with corporate, they'll find somebody that will.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I know that people in my town and region would rather go to Kings Island (which is 4 hours from Vincennes) than Six Flags (Which is 3). They aren't dumb and can recognize that the park that is farther away has the better lineup.

 

I live in between HW & SFStL. It is the exact same drive (which is about 2 hours) for people around here. Almost everybody I know chooses HW over SFStL. I even know people who choose to make the trip to Branson and Silver Dollar City over SFStL.

[Sf-Dad]

Was a better day for SFSTL. Arrived at 2 and had to park at Taz 16. I have never had to park past 13 on a weekday. Of course my car was very lonely out there when I left at 7.

[TNT]

Deleted 

[HARLEYGUYJB]

Good for the park!!

[HWFan]

Okay, so I had the pleasure of having lunch with Dave again this week. I think that it's easy to get pessimistic about the park, but I left with a lot of hope. Dave and his team have an incredible plan for the park in terms of just improving what is there. Well, here's some points:

-They are going to continue to remove as many dead areas as possible, like the Hannibarrels this year.

-They want to use a lot of small improvements to lighten up the park, and breathe new life into it.

-They see this period as a conversion from an "old park" to a "new park." The park has held two million without HH, so they want to keep perfecting what is there rather than crazily expanding.

 

I can't go into too many specifics, partially because Dave doesn't even know yet. One thing that is amazing about Dave is if you bring up just small suggestions, if they're good, he makes them happen. We had a disabled Guest who had a hard time waiting for the Holiday Inn shuttle, and was wondering why we couldn't add benches. As soon as I told Dave, he immediately made multiple notes about it. I've heard he's the most down to earth park president in the chain. He started at the bottom in the mail room. The story of how he got the job as an after thought is crazy.

 

While many are critical of the "warf" area, I think your opinion will change within the next couple years. The ideas and options for developing and reimagining that area are all great. That entire area of the park should be more refreshed in the next couple of years. As St. Louis' economy has been one of the slowest to recover from the 2008 financial mess, the park will build itself back up.

 

By the way, if anyone has an extra $2million we can blow up the admissions area and build it back up. Just message me if you're interested.

[HARLEYGUYJB]

Where is the "warf" area?

[HWFan]

Where is the "warf" area?

It's the small area that is home to Tsunami Soaker. It's extremely small.

[HARLEYGUYJB]

ahh...gotcha! Maybe they could build a new restaurant or two in that area? Need some more selection like some of the other parks..fish...brats..maybe their own Chinese restaurant so that dining pass can be offered for Chinese food.