vacoaster09 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Coaster Capital is also arbitrary if your coasters are not enjoyable or re-rideable. It's better to be the awesome coasters capital than the suck-a$$ coasters capital (and that's not a dig at sfstl but a general statement to any park). Therefore, I think its definitely worth the money/investment to enhance quality than quantity in certain cases. This is easy for coaster enthusiast to say...like you and I. And when Dave was explaining the market to me, I understood where he was coming from. St. Louis is defiantly know as a baseball town and that's about the extend of it. St. Louis-ans (which I am) for the most part don't keep up with current roller coaster news...what's hot and what's not. Now, I'm not exactly sure about bigger cities like Chicago and LA, but it was most defiantly clear from Dave, we don't compare! So even if we don't have the same quality as SFMM or SFGAm.....St. Louis appreciates what it has. When I told family and friends the Boomerang was an old used coaster from Texas the reactions were "What?? This isn't a brand new coaster?" They've never been on a Vekoma coaster before nevertheless heard of one. Though many travel, they don't travel for amusement parks....I do so Boomerang was not new to me. It is very "new" for St. Louis. I think you misunderstood me... I am not referring to quality as in manufacturers (B&M vs Vekoma)... I am mores-so broadly referring to re-rideability. If I focus on Sfstl, boomerang has been mentioned to be smoother than other boomerangs which is good but if they had put in a rough ride it wouldn't have been worth it. However if a park, for instance, put in a coaster that literally beats its riders up then adding the coaster for quantity-sake would be a bad choice IMO. Further, if a park decided to put a coaster in but neglects the other coasters and allows them to fall into torturous rough houses or in a state of disrepair, then likewise, quantity was not worth it. When CF installed Carolina Cobra they intalled new restrains which shows they paid attention to the quality of the rider experience whereas when SFA installed Apocalypse, well... self explanatory. I for one, think that Iron Boss would be a great investment for the park. Or atleast a complete Topper Track re-tracking.
theymitbgi Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 St. Louis-ans (which I am) for the most part don't keep up with current roller coaster news... No one does. The nerds that do are few and far between. There aren't really any coaster cities. I disagree with this statement, just based on numbers. Let's say for the sake of argument and easy calculations that 1% of the population are enthusiasts and keep up on new coasters, etc. This would make St. Louis with a metro population of 4 million have 40,000 enthusiasts, while Chicago with a population of 20 million would have 200,00 enthusaists, so just by having a larger population would make you a coaster city. Btw, I just guesstimated on populations. This also goes to the argument of: Are you trying to satisfy enthusiasts or gp. Seeing that gp comprises 99% of the population, wouldn't it be better business to go after that crowd. The only argument would be that the enthusaists may make more visits to the park every year where the gp only visit 2-4 times. I would be curious how a ride like Outlaw Run or Goliath at SFGA are viewed by the gp. Are they worth the investment?
theymitbgi Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Coaster Capital is also arbitrary if your coasters are not enjoyable or re-rideable. It's better to be the awesome coasters capital than the suck-a$$ coasters capital (and that's not a dig at sfstl but a general statement to any park). Therefore, I think its definitely worth the money/investment to enhance quality than quantity in certain cases. I for one, think that Iron Boss would be a great investment for the park. Or atleast a complete Topper Track re-tracking. Sorry for the double post, bt it seemed like we must have been typing at the same time. I think a simple topper track or re- tracking of THe Boss is not marketable to the GP. How do you advertise it? Come ride the new smoother Boss? That's admitting it was rough before. Does GP understand quality of a coaster? If a 16 looper were installed would it be popular with the GP?
pkgdel5 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Coaster Capital is also arbitrary if your coasters are not enjoyable or re-rideable. It's better to be the awesome coasters capital than the suck-a$$ coasters capital (and that's not a dig at sfstl but a general statement to any park). Therefore, I think its definitely worth the money/investment to enhance quality than quantity in certain cases. This is easy for coaster enthusiast to say...like you and I. And when Dave was explaining the market to me, I understood where he was coming from. St. Louis is defiantly know as a baseball town and that's about the extend of it. St. Louis-ans (which I am) for the most part don't keep up with current roller coaster news...what's hot and what's not. Now, I'm not exactly sure about bigger cities like Chicago and LA, but it was most defiantly clear from Dave, we don't compare! So even if we don't have the same quality as SFMM or SFGAm.....St. Louis appreciates what it has. When I told family and friends the Boomerang was an old used coaster from Texas the reactions were "What?? This isn't a brand new coaster?" They've never been on a Vekoma coaster before nevertheless heard of one. Though many travel, they don't travel for amusement parks....I do so Boomerang was not new to me. It is very "new" for St. Louis. I think you misunderstood me... I am not referring to quality as in manufacturers (B&M vs Vekoma)... I am mores-so broadly referring to re-rideability. If I focus on Sfstl, boomerang has been mentioned to be smoother than other boomerangs which is good but if they had put in a rough ride it wouldn't have been worth it. However if a park, for instance, put in a coaster that literally beats its riders up then adding the coaster for quantity-sake would be a bad choice IMO. Further, if a park decided to put a coaster in but neglects the other coasters and allows them to fall into torturous rough houses or in a state of disrepair, then likewise, quantity was not worth it. When CF installed Carolina Cobra they intalled new restrains which shows they paid attention to the quality of the rider experience whereas when SFA installed Apocalypse, well... self explanatory. I understood you were speaking of quality as far as manufacturers. I through the Vekoma name in there as I've told the "Boomerang story" to family and friends. I get where you are coming from.....
SFSTLMO Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I also talked with Dave at FF about two weeks ago, he was very high on the Justice League ride. We also talked about an RMC conversion of the Boss and he said the same things, don't expect it. If the park had $18 million to spend (this was the number he threw out) they would much rather get a new steel coaster, not that it is likely either. His main goals seemed to be moving the carousel towards the front of the park near the palace gardens area and adding a "real" kiddie coaster. Just from talking with him it would seem any major steel installation is at least 5 years away. They would not consider removing any coaster until another one was added. Any thought on where a Kiddie coaster could go without removing an additional coaster? I would assume they would want to keep it near BBNP, so maybe removing Screaming Eagle's old unused queue area and taking part of the hillside from the Old Glory amphitheater. I really see the amphitheater as serving no purpose in recent years as they only fill it 3-4 times a year. so maybe rough idea on a timeline 2014-Justice League 2015-Moving carousel and Water park addition? At this point it would have been 3-4 years since Bonzai was added. 2016-Kiddie Coaster 2017-Removal of Ninja, replaced with Wing Rider or possibly RMC design? We would be one of the only parks without an RMC. So... just to be clear, they are going to market the kiddie coaster as the tenth coaster of the park? It would make much more sense to remove something (God hopes its the Ninja) and later on, add something more thrilling to market as the 10th coaster of the park?
prozach626 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 St. Louis-ans (which I am) for the most part don't keep up with current roller coaster news... No one does. The nerds that do are few and far between. There aren't really any coaster cities. I disagree with this statement, just based on numbers. Let's say for the sake of argument and easy calculations that 1% of the population are enthusiasts and keep up on new coasters, etc. This would make St. Louis with a metro population of 4 million have 40,000 enthusiasts, while Chicago with a population of 20 million would have 200,00 enthusaists, so just by having a larger population would make you a coaster city. Btw, I just guesstimated on populations. I don't know, man. I think your estimate of even 1% is a little high. Just for an example, although a lame example, I have a few hundred facebook friends. I'm the only enthusiast of the bunch. Then I think of all of the people I know from work, my past work, acquaintances, etc. Between a pool of maybe 500 people or more, I can only think of one other person who I've only slightly converted into a 'sorta' enthusiast. My wife, although she has well over 100 credits, definitely doesn't count as a coaster enthusiast. If it weren't for her being into my interests, she probably wouldn't care if she never rode another coaster again. I also think about a large population of people I deal with in my cop life... I don't see a lot of them being coaster enthusiasts... Don't get me wrong. I have a very small hand full of friends who "like" roller coasters a fraction more than other people I know. A few of them have even been to cedar point, but none of those people have any idea of what coasters are coming next year or even what SFStl is doing. Sometimes when I talk about roller coasters... which is rare... they say things like "We should go to that place in Ohio that has a ton of roller coaster." If I mention going anywhere else like Great America or King's Island, they look at me like I have two heads. Hell, think of how few people post on this thread from STL out of our 4 million population pool.
SteveStL Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 Me, personally, would rather see New Steel at our park rather than a Dark Ride. I know Justice League will be better than your average SF Dark Ride, but new steel at our park is sorely needed. It doesn't make sense, SFSTL was to maintain is Coaster Capital status but their future strategy doesn't seem to coincide with that. WOF can easily take that crown within 5 short years.
coasterbill Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 WOF can easily take that crown within 5 short years. There's no crown to steal because Six Flags just made it up and it could mean anything... I know Justice League will be better than your average SF Dark Ride I didn't even know there was an average for Six Flags Dark Rides... how many are there that are noteworthy besides the one at SFOG?
GwaziBSRider1 Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 ^ The only other one I can even think of (besides the indoor coasters) is the Yosemite Sam dark ride at SFOT, and it's nothing to write home about.
SteveStL Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 WOF can easily take that crown within 5 short years. There's no crown to steal because Six Flags just made it up and it could mean anything... It just a simple coaster count... we got 9
coasterbill Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 No it's not... if they said "More coasters than any park in the Midwest" then that would be a simple coaster count. Declaring yourself the "Coaster Capital" of a certain area can mean anything. They can just say that it means they have the best coasters in that area which is a claim nobody can dispute because it's 100% opinion based. It means whatever they want it to mean. Anyway, I'll stop repeating myself but this "Coaster Capital" stuff is ridiculous.
prozach626 Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 It's just a dumb title no matter how you look at it. SFStl is one step away from posting a billboard declaring itself the best amusement park in St. Louis. Hearing Dave's strategy is a let down. I don't care how positive his attitude is, I don't like his strategy mostly on the principle that it does nothing for me personally. I like to ride state of the art roller coasters. I usually could care less about anything else. Occasionally my wife and I throw in a log flume, a dark ride, a random flat, or a rapids ride (depending on how many beers we've consumed), but roller coasters are really our (my) main draw. We don't have kids and we don't watch the shows, because frankly... shows are really freaking lame. A Bugs Bunny parade of "Micky Mouse Dance Party" aren't what I call a good time. I still don't understand how a grown man without kids can enjoy Disney... Our skyline is DATED. You could put a 90's disposable camera filter on a picture of our skyline and it wouldn't look out of place. Don't be teased when Dave eludes to a new steel roller coaster coming in 5 years. We'll probably all still be b****ing about getting the shaft again in 2020. BTW: Indiana Beach is rumored to get a new "thrilling" attraction in 2015 or 2016. My money says it's not going to be a 27 year old used boomerang.
SteveStL Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 No it's not... if they said "More coasters than any park in the Midwest" then that would be a simple coaster count. Declaring yourself the "Coaster Capital" of a certain area can mean anything. They can just say that it means they have the best coasters in that area which is a claim nobody can dispute because it's 100% opinion based. It means whatever they want it to mean. Anyway, I'll stop repeating myself but this "Coaster Capital" stuff is ridiculous. I agree it is ridiculous, but I still think it is just a simple as a coaster count. Plus for some reason I can't see them modifying The Boss (raising the lift another 20 feet, new trains). While I think that plan is a good idea per reasons stated, I just can't see that happening. With the RMC conversion out of the picture it is more likely it will operate in its original state indefinately.
pkgdel5 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 "Missouri's Coaster Capitol" is based on the count....9. I had figured it to mean that but Dave did confirm when I spoke with him.....
prozach626 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I agree with Steve. Nothing is ever going to be changed on the boss.
HWFan Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 As it seems that such a lively discussion has come up regarding the park's future and marketing techniques, and because the park's management does take any constructive criticism and ideas, especially from people who have travelled all over the world to visit parks, if you have any suggestions, you can either post here or message me them. I'll tell you that right now the park is especially looking to expand Fright Fest for 2015, so if you have anything you'd like to suggest regarding FF, that is especially welcomed. Instead of just saying, "Voided Vision is boring," make sure to include why it's boring and any suggestions you have to make it better or replace it. This doesn't all have to be huge big picture changes and projects, but little things or ideas you've had about the park are more likely to show up in the park. I'll organize your ideas and bring them to Dave and our Director of Operations. I'm also pretty sure that you all focus on the "Coaster Capital" thing way more than the park does sometimes.
prozach626 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 ^ I'd like to suggest a modern thrilling steel roller coaster. You know... like the ones that other parks get. Thanks.
HARLEYGUYJB Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I like to ride state of the art roller coasters. I usually could care less about anything else. Occasionally my wife and I throw in a log flume, a dark ride, a random flat, or a rapids ride (depending on how many beers we've consumed), but roller coasters are really our (my) main draw. We don't have kids and we don't watch the shows, because frankly... shows are really freaking lame. A Bugs Bunny parade of "Micky Mouse Dance Party" aren't what I call a good time. I still don't understand how a grown man without kids can enjoy Disney... A family man such as myself who have 2 children and soon another, They might appear lame to you...but they aren't lame to a young child. Theme parks can't just cater to the the hard core roller coaster enthusiasts all the time. A successful theme park has to cater to everyone. I really don't get why so many people hate this park.. I love it and enjoy working there too.
pkgdel5 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I like to ride state of the art roller coasters. I usually could care less about anything else. Occasionally my wife and I throw in a log flume, a dark ride, a random flat, or a rapids ride (depending on how many beers we've consumed), but roller coasters are really our (my) main draw. We don't have kids and we don't watch the shows, because frankly... shows are really freaking lame. A Bugs Bunny parade of "Micky Mouse Dance Party" aren't what I call a good time. I still don't understand how a grown man without kids can enjoy Disney... A family man such as myself who have 2 children and soon another, They might appear lame to you...but they aren't lame to a young child. Theme parks can't just cater to the the hard core roller coaster enthusiasts all the time. A successful theme park has to cater to everyone. I really don't get why so many people hate this park.. I love it and enjoy working there too. Despite me wanting more thrill rides/coasters for SFSTL, I'm still very appreciative of having a park! I do understand parks also have to have family, kid and "other" rides/things to "please" the GP. Everyone doesn't like big, fast roller-coasters....many in family don't like "big" rides....one of my sons don't like "big" rides, but appreciates all the water, smaller and dark rides. My husband and I have 5 kids, we have season passes (for years now) and will continue to patronize our home park. I have met many from other surrounding areas that wish they had something/anything near them as we do!
prozach626 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I like to ride state of the art roller coasters. I usually could care less about anything else. Occasionally my wife and I throw in a log flume, a dark ride, a random flat, or a rapids ride (depending on how many beers we've consumed), but roller coasters are really our (my) main draw. We don't have kids and we don't watch the shows, because frankly... shows are really freaking lame. A Bugs Bunny parade of "Micky Mouse Dance Party" aren't what I call a good time. I still don't understand how a grown man without kids can enjoy Disney... A family man such as myself who have 2 children and soon another, They might appear lame to you...but they aren't lame to a young child. Theme parks can't just cater to the the hard core roller coaster enthusiasts all the time. A successful theme park has to cater to everyone. I really don't get why so many people hate this park.. I love it and enjoy working there too. That's why I emphasized that I don't understand how someone without kids can enjoy shows, etc. I understand their place, but I have yet to... evolve... to that level (aka I have no kids). Someday I'll have to tolerate it more and may enjoy it on some level. It's the childless adults who rock out to Disney Dance Party with Goofy and Micky who blow my mind. It's like watching a grown man play with dolls.
hey...hey Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 ^Totally understand where you are coming from. It is all what you want out of life and how you live...to each there own. When my wife and kid are around, I will stay and watch whatever parade is going on and usually have a descent time at Disney. However, when I am by myself at a park (Dorney Park this year), I usually just jump from one coaster to the next...and maybe a flat between.
HWFan Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 That's why I emphasized that I don't understand how someone without kids can enjoy shows, etc. I understand their place, but I have yet to... evolve... to that level (aka I have no kids). Someday I'll have to tolerate it more and may enjoy it on some level. It's the childless adults who rock out to Disney Dance Party with Goofy and Micky who blow my mind. It's like watching a grown man play with dolls. A lot of people probably see grown men spending hours on a forum talking about coasters or cars, especially with the level that a lot of coaster enthusiasts take it to, as dorky or something. If it makes you happy, do it. I'm not going to sit there and judge anyone. If I don't think a business caters to my needs but it is catering to the needs of others, I will stop patronizing it, but I won't post all kinds of negative things about it just because they don't offer the product I want. While I am a big fan of dark rides, I personally don't really care for the parades/shows. (Although I did enjoy watching Evolutions at SFSL during one of my breaks.) However, I think that a lot of people on this website especially probably do enjoy some of the things you don't, and I think that demeaning them is inappropriate and unnecessary. You keep going further and further from a healthy discussion about parks (the good and the bad) towards attacking the things that make certain people happy. I just honestly can't figure out why you choose to spend your time on this site with such negativity. I'm sorry but just stop. Please.
Sf-Dad Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 HW here are some. Fix the landscaping under the tube slides! Who likes stepping on small pebbles in bare feet? It hurts! You can sweep them up but with all the water dripping down they are just going to come back without proper edging. Cleaning up the "sand" on the beaches would be real nice as well. Thunder river: fix the holes In the rocks, it looks bad. See that was cheap, now you have plenty of money left over to RMC The Boss.
GwaziBSRider1 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Two suggestions: 1. Please turn SkyScreamer forward again (if it hasn't been done already). It just wasn't pleasant. 2. Maybe spruce up the mine train theming. It's pretty terrible looking.
CaliforniaPinto Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 They only run SkyScreamer backwards during Spring Break and Fright Fest.
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