When does an element become an inversion?

[larrygator]

When you go upside down. Dumbass.

I really hope this is a joke because this is probably the most ignorant post I've seen in at least a month

 

 

I find many of the responses in this thread more ignorant than his post. Unless you change the definition of invert, it is the point at which you go upside down and as BDG graphically illustrated, 180 degrees.

[Angle O. Descent]

All technical definitions of an inversion aside: If you were to compare two similar-looking "inversions", one clear difference is between a cutback and an inside tophat. When you really look at it, the cutback looks more like a steep overbanked turn. On an inside tophat, you're completely upside down. Just an example that perhaps making the inversion threshold 180 degrees would create less confusion.

[Password121]

When you go upside down. Dumbass.

I really hope this is a joke because this is probably the most ignorant post I've seen in at least a month

 

 

I find many of the responses in this thread more ignorant than his post. Unless you change the definition of invert, it is the point at which you go upside down and as BDG graphically illustrated, 180 degrees.

My post was a little sarcastic (hence the ) but by saying "upside down" there's inherently a discrepancy in meaning, which is the entire point of this thread. Repeating the purpose of the thread as the answer, then insulting the OP for no reason whatsoever, I think is a little condescending.

 

But otherwise yes I agree, there are a lot more ignorant posts than this one.

[LuminousAphid]

 

This. . . This is when an element becomes an inversion. That's all.

 

Well, that gif doesn't really clear things up much from where I'm looking at it. What if the car goes into the gray "inversion" territory but stops and rolls back before getting to the 180 mark? Is it still an inversion because it went into the shaded 90 degree section at the top? The way I interpret that picture, that's what the shading would seem to imply--that any element in which the train reaches a roll angle within that range qualifies as an inversion. I don't agree. On the other hand, the animation in the gif seems to imply that the train has to complete a full revolution through the inversion area, which I also don't agree with--the cannibal roll doesn't quite make a complete roll around, but I would still call that an inversion. So throwing that picture out and saying, "That is all" is a very lazy way to look at an interesting topic.

 

edit; to illustrate my point, this little guy has an "inclined loop" that would probably just about be within that 135 degree shaded territory, but I do not call this an inversion:

[gerstlaueringvar]

But I do not call this an inversion

As long as you enter the 135 degrees zone, no matter which way you go it counts as an inversion. Such as Outlaw Run's 153 degrees outward banked turn or Wicked Cyclone's 200 degrees stall. If the train enters, say banks to 130 degrees to the other side after inverted, then roll back to invert position and then return to upright, it counts as two. Just like the Lagoon Roll on Cannibal.

[DoinItForTheFame]

Well, that gif doesn't really clear things up much from where I'm looking at it. What if the car goes into the gray "inversion" territory but stops and rolls back before getting to the 180 mark?

 

As long as the car passes the 135 degree angle then it is an inversion.

 

I really don't get how this can be so confusing.

[rcjp]

Its always annoyed me that barrel rolls on flying coasters are considered an inversion. Your never upside down at any point during them.

 

How not? The body is rotated 180 degrees relative to it's position. You were facing down, then you were facing up. Inversion.

Actually your feat never go above your head. Flying coasters are special as a vertical drop (if any of those had one) would make you go fully upside down unlike on a normal coaster.

[XII]

Interesting question. I know this primarily comes up when it comes to Incline Loops. For me, they're just on the border and just barely inversions to begin with. And I don't count every inclined element. While I do count Incline Loops and the Incline Cobra Roll on Hydra. But the Incline Dive Loop on Hydra, no. It doesn't count. Not an inversion. For some reason, it just feels less banked than the incline loops and cobra roll. If that counts, then so do the over banked turns on Millennium Force, Xcelerator, and Silver Bullet, which it feels FAR more like than any inversion, and no. That Strengal Dive on Outlaw Run is not an inversion, and telling me it goes beyond 135 degrees is not going to convince me that it is. Perhaps it's weird that I count incline loops, but not other incline elements or Strengal Dives. Shouldn't really matter in the end since the main reason to ride coasters is for fun and the Strengal Dive on Outlaw Run is awesome, regardless of whether it's an inversion or not (It's not).

[LuminousAphid]

Well, that gif doesn't really clear things up much from where I'm looking at it. What if the car goes into the gray "inversion" territory but stops and rolls back before getting to the 180 mark?

 

As long as the car passes the 135 degree angle then it is an inversion.

 

I really don't get how this can be so confusing.

It's not confusion now that you've cleared it up, I just disagree with your definition. Who decided that was the magic number?

[Password121]

Well, that gif doesn't really clear things up much from where I'm looking at it. What if the car goes into the gray "inversion" territory but stops and rolls back before getting to the 180 mark?

 

As long as the car passes the 135 degree angle then it is an inversion.

 

I really don't get how this can be so confusing.

It's not confusion now that you've cleared it up, I just disagree with your definition. Who decided that was the magic number?

I don't think it's about anyone "deciding" anything, it's just exactly the point where the rider is closer to inverted than horizontal. It's as if someone said "Ehh maybe 150 degrees because that seems like pretty upside down," it's backed up my an actual mathematical reason.

[A.J.]

It's not confusion now that you've cleared it up, I just disagree with your definition. Who decided that was the magic number?

At angles of roll between 135 and 180 degrees on either side, your body is more upside-down than it is sideways.

[bill_s]

135 degrees is 90 (sideways) + 45 (halfway to completely upside down from 90).

 

I know one thing: it's great that coasters are moving away from a specifications war because elements that go to or past 90 degrees but aren't clearly inversions can be good and wonderful. Maybe 2 near-inversions should be counted as one actual one, or at least give a pass to one or 2 more-inverted elements on a ride with lots of them. I agree an overbanked turn is less inverted feeling than some other elements, but that doesn't matter once you can be proud of your non-inverting, over 90 degrees inclined elements and other undefinable indescribables.

 

Think about how much better, and ahead of its time, the Drachen Fire cutback could have been without the pressure to make it a countable inversion.

[FKA 'Playa]

When the Typical Coaster Enthusiast's moobs begin to point

 

-Away from his navel

-Toward the ground

 

but at the same time. Thank you and good night.

[snapfordakids]

When the Typical Coaster Enthusiast's moobs begin to point

 

-Away from his navel

-Toward the ground

 

but at the same time. Thank you and good night.

I laughed

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Well, that gif doesn't really clear things up much from where I'm looking at it. What if the car goes into the gray "inversion" territory but stops and rolls back before getting to the 180 mark?

 

As long as the car passes the 135 degree angle then it is an inversion.

 

I really don't get how this can be so confusing.

It's not confusion now that you've cleared it up, I just disagree with your definition. Who decided that was the magic number?

Nebuchadnezzar's astronomers.

[larrygator]

It's not confusion now that you've cleared it up, I just disagree with your definition. Who decided that was the magic number?

At angles of roll between 135 and 180 degrees on either side, your body is more upside-down than it is sideways.

 

I remember people being sticklers about coaster drop needing to be 90 degrees or more to be a vertical drop. 88 or 89 degrees was not a vertical drop, but now being close to upside down is upside down. I'm just not following the logic.

 

So, does that mean on your 26th birthday you will be in your thirties because you are closer to 30 than 20?

During your junior year in college were you a college graduate because you were almost done?

If you run 25 miles of a marathon have you finished?

 

Why the hell am I even in this thread, it's pointless and non-productive.

[rcjp]

^Of course it's not very important but if we only considered exactly 180 degrees upside down there would be a lot of inversions which wouldn't count such as all inclined loops and almost all immelmanns, cobra rolls and dive loops.