Trogdor: The Burninator!! Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Sup everyone? Long time reader, first time poster. GCI and RMC are all about refurbishing old CCI coasters, but what if B&M did the same for old Arrow coasters? I was watching old footage of Drachen Fire at BGW the other day and I thought how cool would it be if B&M were to rebuild the ride using the same layout as designed by Arrow. Especially the first drop with the diving corkscrew, that would be amazing. If you could pick one coaster to get a B&M treatment, which one would it be and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Um. Fitting Topper Track or I-Box track to the existing structure of a wooden coaster is different than tearing a coaster down completely and building a successor. You can't really give coasters the "B&M treatment" if those coasters have to be completely torn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think Vekoma MK1212 trains would be okay as Arrow coasters don't usually have track bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Um. Fitting Topper Track or I-Box track to the existing structure of a wooden coaster is different than tearing a coaster down completely and building a successor. You can't really give coasters the "B&M treatment" if those coasters have to be completely torn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor: The Burninator!! Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Um. Fitting Topper Track or I-Box track to the existing structure of a wooden coaster is different than tearing a coaster down completely and building a successor. You can't really give coasters the "B&M treatment" if those coasters have to be completely torn down. Fair point. The idea I'm trying to convey is that there are a lot of old Arrow coasters, particular old Arrow loopers that have a lot of potential but should have been built by a different manufacturer. Put another way, if you could tear down an old Arrow coaster and have B&M rebuild the ride using the same track design what one would you pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Assuming we are talking "old school B&M" treatment, meaning the rides would actually be forceful and fun, yet smooth, my vote would be for Viper at SFMM. That ride, as it is, for an Arrow, is pretty intense. And I've always wanted to see back to back B&M vertical loops! Something like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLCPfan Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 How about going one step further than consecutive loops and having B&M do a new version of Orient Express at Worlds of Fun. The land is still sitting there waiting for a replacement coaster. B&M interlocking loops sounds like a winner to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'll go along with Viper at SFMM, too. It's actually an OK ride to begin with (better than other similar Arrow loopers). The old Arrow Hypers, such as Blackpool's Big One and Space World's Titan V, could sure use some B&M help, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I wish parks keep using the original Arrow track and keep maintaining their old Arrow coasters. Arrow coasters suppose should be rough with the old technology(except for Tennessee Tornado, Road Runner Express, etc)! When every coaster is glass smooth, what's fun about riding coasters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 ^I think you're confusing "roughness" with "intensity" here. A coaster can be intense without beating your brains in or giving you a spine adjustment. For example, I305 is very intense, but pretty smooth; Anaconda is simply rough and jarring. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Um. Fitting Topper Track or I-Box track to the existing structure of a wooden coaster is different than tearing a coaster down completely and building a successor. You can't really give coasters the "B&M treatment" if those coasters have to be completely torn down. I have to agree with this. This seems completely impractical. If people are that desperate to ride a smooth, fun arrow looper then my suggestion is to go to Dollywood or BGW . Otherwise you're out of luck. Canyon Blaster isn't bad either... it's just not a great layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Id Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I've had this thought as well, although I always imagined Intamin would be a better fit for revamping old Arrow rides. Seems like the Intamin track design would just be a better fit to begin with. I loved the Arrow multi-loopers. I grew up riding Shockwave at SFGAm and love the intensity of those rides...those first three vertical loops were awesome! Oddly enough, wasn't Drachen Fire originally designed by B&M along with Kumba, and handed off to Arrow so B&M could focus their efforts on the inverted coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike541x Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I remember when Arrow was bought out by S&S, I thought they would start making the traditional Arrow loopers, hypers since they continued with the 4D coasters. It would've been awesome to see more rides like Tennessee Tornado. Oddly enough, wasn't Drachen Fire originally designed by B&M along with Kumba, and handed off to Arrow so B&M could focus their efforts on the inverted coaster? As story goes. This debate has been going on for a while whether it was an originally an Arrow project or B&M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 ^I think you're confusing "roughness" with "intensity" here. A coaster can be intense without beating your brains in or giving you a spine adjustment. For example, I305 is very intense, but pretty smooth; Anaconda is simply rough and jarring. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning. I mean Arrow's roughness plays a big role on the history of roller coasters. Making them glass smooth is disrespectful to the history although most Schwarzkopf coasters are as smooth as new coasters. Roughness makes Arrow coasters what they are. People hate rough coasters, I hate rough coasters as well that someone already said I magnified how bad Hades360 is. But when all rough coasters with old technologies are gone, we will miss them. It would be terrible if the sound of Arrow anti-rollback dog, the feeling of the train banging between the tracks, the coat hangers, the triangle airtime hills, the unheartlined transitions, the loud brakes, etc are gone forever and all coasters are using silent chain lift, LSM, magnetic brakes, hydraulic restraints, sand filled track, glass smooth transitions with perfect heartlined track, little to no lateral G's. The world needs the remaing Arrow coasters! Intense or not, they represent a big step in the roller coaster history and they need to be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapesLie Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I would love to see the standard Vekoma SLC layout built by B&M! I think it would be SWEET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 But when all rough coasters with old technologies are gone, we will miss them. It would be terrible if the sound of Arrow anti-rollback dog, the feeling of the train banging between the tracks, the coat hangers, the triangle airtime hills, the unheartlined transitions, the loud brakes, etc are gone forever and all coasters are using silent chain lift, LSM, magnetic brakes, hydraulic restraints, sand filled track, glass smooth transitions with perfect heartlined track, little to no lateral G's. The world needs the remaing Arrow coasters! Intense or not, they represent a big step in the roller coaster history and they need to be remembered. I think Arrow's place in coaster history is already set, and S&S does have the old Arrow designs. I do agree that some Arrow coasters, such as the Loch Ness Monster, Tennessee Tornado (the best of the bunch and a great ride, in my opinion), and even Magnum, are worth preserving. But I don't know. Saying that people will "miss" the old rough coasters is sort of like saying that you miss haivng migraines or backaches after those pains go away. But to each his or her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomNick Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I would love to see the standard Vekoma SLC layout built by B&M! I think it would be SWEET! This. I've always wondered what that layout would be like if B&M built it. The SLC's can be rough as heck, but I still like the layout. As for an Arrow ride, I often wonder what the original Steel Phantom would've been like if B&M built it. That said, it all worked out, as the transformation to Phantom's Revenge yielded all sorts of awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Stratosphere Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Maybe we could get them to resurrect Drachen Fire! But in this category, I would definitely have to say Desperado would require this treatment. It has great forces, the ride just runs really rough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think Arrow's place in coaster history is already set, and S&S does have the old Arrow designs. I do agree that some Arrow coasters, such as the Loch Ness Monster, Tennessee Tornado (the best of the bunch and a great ride, in my opinion), and even Magnum, are worth preserving. But I don't know. Saying that people will "miss" the old rough coasters is sort of like saying that you miss haivng migraines or backaches after those pains go away. But to each his or her own. This. Parks are businesses and while a lot of them care about history and nostalgia nobody cares enough that they're willing to pour money into a ride that sucks and is unpopular with pretty much everyone year after year because it's historic. Like CFC said there are a few arrow rides that should be preserved because they're good (and in the case of Tennessee Tornado, GREAT) rides. Any Arrow ride that's popular enough to justify it's operating expenses isn't going anywhere. We're talking about the majority of Arrow rides that suck and see decreasing ridership year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Um. Fitting Topper Track or I-Box track to the existing structure of a wooden coaster is different than tearing a coaster down completely and building a successor. You can't really give coasters the "B&M treatment" if those coasters have to be completely torn down. I have to agree with this. This seems completely impractical. Are some of us just to "dorky" to simply have "fun" with this concept? The OP didn't actually mean *literally* taking off the Arrow track and replacing it with B&M, this was more of a hypothetical "what if", "let's have fun for a minute and dream", kind of question. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfelice Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I respect everything Arrow has given us. They were one of the innovators of tubular steel track, and a key contributor to the evolution of multi-looping coasters. Heck, they practically dominated the steel looping coaster industry from the late 70s to very early 90s. Poor business decisions aside, Arrow is a huge contributor to what our coasters are today. If a park proved they could create a better ride experience that ultimately improves their bottom line by converting an Arrow coaster to B&M or even rebuilding an old Arrow layout with B&M technology, I'd give them my support as this is not disrespectful to history but a good business decision. However, this is a very unlikely hypothetical scenario. A disrespectful thing to Arrow would be a park removing an older Arrow and making a statement like, "It was a cheap piece of crap from the start" when in fact that coaster was state-of-the-art in the 1980s in which few better options existed. You can argue Anton did a better job designing coasters in the same time period, but the numbers do not lie with multi-loopers in the USA. It can also be argued that Arrow with Magnum helped prove that a non-looping hypercoaster can be a signature ride in a time when looping coasters were the steel coaster of choice. There is no denying that Arrow was a force to be reckoned with in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&MBoy1982 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well, B&M has provided trains for other companies. So I wouldn't dismiss this idea totally. Steel Dragon 2000 Psyclone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 ^Worked OK in the first example, but not so well in the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&MBoy1982 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The last I heard, Magic Mountain runs the Psyclone train backward on Colossus during their Halloween event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 ^^ What's interesting is that Psyclone ran AMAZING for the first few years. And then the Northridge Earthquake (who are we kidding, SFMM maintenance just used that excuse) and typical Six Flags woodie wear and tear set in... How's Terminator running now? Yeah, thought so.... --Robb "Should have re-named it to Son of Psyclone instead of Apocalypse!" Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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