Six Flags Darien Lake (SFDL) Discussion Thread

[Sk610]

So I was taking a look at the Genesee County planning board meeting schedule and it looks like they have their meetings on the second Thursday of each month. With this in mind most likely January 12th or februnary 9th may be our magic dates for DL to go in for approvals. Keep looking around!

 

Also, great retro pictures of Devils hole!

[TheDarkMaxim]

I think it's likely nothing will be added this year as the park is mid sale.

[Tackleberry]

I think it's likely nothing will be added this year as the park is mid sale.

 

I was under the impression that the sale was done. Also, Premier remaining as operator and now having control of upgrades should make that a moot point as well.

[coasterbill]

Personally I'd be happy if all they did was fix or remove their top spin and fix or remove the rotting wooden bridge in front of it.

[coasterkid124]

Since Premier is now in charge of everything finance-wise, I don't think that they will be taking the year off. The sale has been in the works for a few years now, and it should be completely done well before opening day. Premier's formula is to add something every year, which is vital to attendance and revenue at the park. Look back at 2014, when only the Nik Wallenda show was "new". The park got hit hard that year and lost both attendance and profit.

 

After adding attractions in 2015 and 2016, they worked their way back up and improved. People aren't going to visit the park yearly if there aren't new things to enjoy. I've noticed that the park is busier in years that there is investment. Improving the Rowdy's Ridge and Boardwalk areas has worked wonders.

 

I think that fixing up Twister is fine; as long as it can be a reliable attraction for years to come. With Ranger and Twister down the last couple of years, there is not much to do thrill-wise. Even if Premier goes into this year fixing up Twister, and filling in another hole with a new ride, that is probably enough to generate interest.

[TheDarkMaxim]

EPR has entered into the Transition Agreement pursuant to which these properties will be converted into triple-net leased properties leased by affiliates of Premier at closing.

 

The sale has not closed yet, nor has the lease been converted yet.

 

The filing also notes that they expect the sale to close 2Q 2017.

[Sk610]

I would think this agreement would allow the park to still plan for 2017 and beyond though

[SbSteveZ]

I've done some sleuthing and from the several websites I have come across in relation to the Genesee County Planning Board I have found nothing on the meeting that was held today. I did find last years proposal for the Ripcurl Racer - which was a fun read, but I saw nothing on the meeting that occurred this evening(?). Anyone know where that information could be found? It seems weird to me that nothing Darien Lake wise was leaked from this meeting, especially considering they have typically been announcing in January - at least that's been the case for the past couple of years... so unless they did have a proposal and it simply hasn't been uploaded yet (or I couldn't find them because I have no idea what I'm looking for), it seems like Darien will be remaining silent on their 2017 additions (if there even are any) for at least another month.

[KvnMt]

I'm sure it will be soon on the teasing. I live in OKC there is no Frontier City discussion thread in TPR. This week Frontier City started teasing with a photos on their FB page of dirt clearing in one photo the most recent. The other photo was of the snow in the park said they could possibly use it this summer when it melts. They posted some clues on a local coaster club Central Plains of a manager in renegade rapids looking at the back of the park. Another photo of 3 blind mice. This was in the past week. I'm sure Darien Lake if they are adding something new they would start teasing in the coming week or weeks. Premier always likes to start teasing their parks new attractions in mid too late January. Premier usually Don't announce anything till mid February one construction is in full force and local fans can sneak by and get photos.

[TheAmericanKnight]

deleted

Edited January 18, 2017 by TheAmericanKnight

[coasterkid124]

Planning Board website was just updated. No mention of Darien Lake, meaning no sizeable addition is likely. It makes me wonder how big something has to be to qualify for a hearing. Was something like the Scrambler subject to a hearing a few years ago? If they do not affect the skyline or environment they may not need to file all of the paperwork.

 

Two years ago, Rolling Thunder and Brain Drain were split up for Jan and Feb, but traditionally, the park has liked to begin everything by this month. It's probably likely that nothing at all comes for this season, or some very minor changes. All I can say if that's so is prepare for a year like 2014, where the park didn't grow attendance (and might have lost). They need to continue to add to have people come back.

 

At this point, I would be happy just to hear that Twister will be open this season, and RoS will get a second train, but who knows with this park.

[coasterbill]

Does Ride of Steel honestly need a second train? We visited the park twice this year on summer weekends (in one case a Holiday weekend) and never waited more than 10 minutes for anything aside from the log flume and moose on the loose.

[coasterkid124]

It's a nice option to have. Most of the times that I've visited on a peak summer weekend, the line can easily get to be 45-60+ minutes. Same can be said for Viper and Predator. Those are the three coasters that should really have their second train for those days. Plus going forward, just because they have two working trains, doesn't mean that they need to run both every day. I really just think that Premier wouldn't want the park's main attraction not to have a spare if something happened mid-season.

 

Viper was scheduled to run two trains again this season, but for whatever reason, those plans never came to fruition.

[Tackleberry]

Only thing before the planning board this month was a windmill.

 

http://www.townofdarienny.com/legalnotices.html

[Sk610]

Well, maybe we will hear something for the February meeting. I also could see no major additions this year with the new ownership. I do think they should have a second train for ROS as well as a full compliment of replacement parts for those trains. To be honest, I would accept a second train for ME, ROS and Motocoaster as good additions for 2017. At least it would be a step in the direction of two train operations on all major coasters.

[jconsolmagno]

Does Ride of Steel honestly need a second train? We visited the park twice this year on summer weekends (in one case a Holiday weekend) and never waited more than 10 minutes for anything aside from the log flume and moose on the loose.

 

Why does Ride Of Steel only have one train? According to RCDB it has two.

[Janusz]

@ jconsolmagno and everyone else

 

They only have one functioning train at the moment, they purchased a new train from Intamin for this past season which led to the installation of a "new" program that led to the removal of the op-booth monitor and the addition of one button on either side of the platform that ops use to confirm all restraints have been checked. I say new very conservatively as it is Intamin's base program that requires all restraints to be opened and closed as opposed to being able to open individual cars, which is a rather large pain in the a** for the ops.

 

In total they actually have 3 trains for ROS right now but only one functional, albeit useable train as a result of the new program. I'm making an educated guess that they're stripping the functional and compatable components off the other two older trains (they both ran for at least 14 seasons) to organize these parts and have plenty of spares for the new train, as the original trains will be scrapped.

 

From what I've been told by the ops of ROS this past season and was quite clear early in the season, the new train weighs much less than the older 1st gen trains so as a result, suffers from unreliable run times on days when the wind is coming from the North West with the cold temps that are quite frequent in the spring. These effects are amplified when the trains aren't full leading to faults that will close the ride until the weather passes, or for the remainder of the day if these faults persist. This may not seem like a big deal but trying to run two trains on a day that has very little attendance will result in an empty station house and trains that are only 1/2 or 1/4 full leading to unreliable run times, more faults and more down time. One may say, "Then don't run both daggone trains on dead days!" and you'd be absolutely right. I'll tell you an even more correct answer though because I'm like that AP exam you took in high school, and I'm sure a select few will roll their eyes at my response so for your own sake just stop reading here. Close the comment box you're prepping in the new tab and just move on over to the Cedar Point thread to cool off and talk about Christmas ornaments from the China shop.

 

Pt. 1 - Paperwork and Daily Inspections

 

All our lovely thrill seeking devices are thoroughly inspected for specific things daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, and seasonally. It's all thoroughly documented and such as any self respecting bureaucratic company would do. Anyway, there's usually going to be a documented attendance count somewhere that will dictate when a second train will be used on a ride, as little or large as it may be. A small park with very little capital set aside for maintenance is going to set that number quite high to minimize the labor, maintenance, and operating costs associated with these almost always death defying contraptions.

 

So this big number; whatever it may be, is going to greatly reduce the number of operating days that will qualify for use of a second train, for simplicity let's say 14 days. Now that's going to be a very small part of the season and based on overall attendance to the park, less than 1% of all guests from a given season will be effected by a longer than usual wait time at this specific ride. What kind of company on a tight budget would spend another 1.5 million dollars on something they'll use maybe two weeks a year?

 

Now, all of you that have made it this far and didn't stop reading when prompted to do so before are probably fuming right now, "Who does he think he is, I'm paying to go to a park and they're going to make me wait simply because I'm only a number on a clicker to them? My money isn't worth it to them?" You're right! It's silly! I totally agree with you and love the idea of a utopia world with no queue lines, that would be totally awesome! Unfortunately we live in a world where the purpose of a theme park is to make money, not satisfy coaster enthusiasts and their yearning for 24/7 walk ons. I will take yet another moment to warn those who are still skeptical of this information to kindly utilize the back button in the upper left corner of their browser, as to limit the amount of s*** posting that this thread is notorious for.

 

Pt 2. - MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY...

Queues Rihanna song

As referenced previously, theme parks are in the money making business so they're going to do whatever makes the most sense financially for themselves, and the share holders. For the sake of my sleep pattern I will not be getting into the process of buying a park, how an REIT works, or any specifics into how the complexities of an economy create a hard business environment for a small theme park. That said, looking at the price tag of a second train alone is enough to send a shiver down the spine of Chris Thorpe when someone decides to bring up the idea of running his "ride baby" like the good ol' days. That one time investment is followed by daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, and seasonal inspection and maintenance costs in itself. That's not even considering the labor required to maintain a 17 year old coaster PROTOTYPE from the most reliable of all manufacturers, INTAMIN (sarcasm). A shout out to the real MVP, the man who absolutely rocks the toilet bowl haircut, critically acclaimed amongst enthusiasts, hated by almost all mechanics, President of the US branch of Intamin, Sandor Kernacs! This guy makes it sooooooo easy to communicate any mechanical or computer issues to those with knowledge of the system, and is the absolute best at responding in a timely manner no matter what he's doing (meaning he does the exact opposite and should be a meme on here by now).

 

Hey it's a new paragraph! Thought I lost the Enter button huh? Anyways, I should probably mention the time needed to take care of all of these daily Inspections and let you know that it takes 2x as long to do this when you add another train into the mix which is rather inconvenient when a park is on a tight budget. This would mean that not only would there need to be down time to put the second train on mid day, but you'd also need to know early enough in the day so the 2 hours needed to inspect the train can be set aside, along with the necessary time for daily test cycles from both maintenance and ops. I know how much we all love sifting through old attendance statistics and analyzing the trends for certain days so this would be without a doubt a completely logical use of time for an employee at a tight budget park (sarcasm).

 

Pt. 3 - The Airtime Filled Finale

 

I'm not a steel minded objector of a second train on ROS at DL, this is really just a quickly thrown together rather vague representation of why it isn't the most practical choice, and my knowledge of why we don't have 2 trains on ROS (along with the knowledge of several experience individuals who have worked at the park for some time). Could it happen in the future? Yes, I would love to see it happen just as much as the next enthusiast, all of us together couldn't compare to what Chris Thorpe would be doing though . I'd love to go into even more detail of all the things I've seen while at the park or been told by employees about the ride that further solidify these paragraphs of nonsense, and I'm sure a handful of you would love to read it. I'm probably just sick of writing though, just as most of you are trying to read this so I will finish this conglomeration of madness with a hint for the fastest most intense rise of ROS with the new train you can get. Find the cycle with as many large riders as possible at about 3pm on a crazy hot July or August day with little to no wind at all. The last 3 hills will be something to remember, I guarantee it!

Edited January 17, 2017 by Janusz

[SbSteveZ]

^ it did have two, but due to years of neglect the trains both ended up needing extensive work to even be "up to snuff" so Darien decided to try and send them through rehab one train at a time (if I remember correctly) and when that didn't work out, they decided to retire the two old trains (which I believe were the originals) and buy a brand new one for the 2016 season and tentatively they were going to buy a second one for this season, but nothing has been confirmed (at least to my knowledge) and after the whole Second train on Viper thing this year, I'm not expecting them to actually get a second train at all, and honestly won't believe it's a possibility until I see the train on sight. But who knows? Maybe Darien Lake will surprise us this year. One can dream, right?

 

EDIT: the person above totally beat me to it, and without a doubt blew my response out of the water. Great info though, I did enjoy reading it all!

[coasterbill]

That was a very informative write up. Honestly, I'm fine with them not adding another train. I don't really see the need for one. I'd rather they put that same money towards general improvements (paint, landscaping, maintenance, fixing or demolishing the stupid bridge by the MotoCoaster) that don't require an additional time / capital investment going forward. Plus, if any coaster needs a new train, it's Mind Eraser which could really benefit from a Kumbak / new Vekoma train and maybe some new track pieces if this great Nor Easter thing goes well (but now I'm just getting crazy ).

[TheAmericanKnight]

@ jconsolmagno and everyone else

 

They only have one functioning train at the moment, they purchased a new train from Intamin for this past season which led to the installation of a "new" program that led to the removal of the op-booth monitor and the addition of one button on either side of the platform that ops use to confirm all restraints have been checked. I say new very conservatively as it is Intamin's base program that requires all restraints to be opened and closed as opposed to being able to open individual cars, which is a rather large pain in the a** for the ops.

 

In total they actually have 3 trains for ROS right now but only one functional, albeit useable train as a result of the new program. I'm making an educated guess that they're stripping the functional and compatable components off the other two older trains (they both ran for at least 14 seasons) to organize these parts and have plenty of spares for the new train, as the original trains will be scrapped.

 

From what I've been told by the ops of ROS this past season and was quite clear early in the season, the new train weighs much less than the older 1st gen trains so as a result, suffers from unreliable run times on days when the wind is coming from the North West with the cold temps that are quite frequent in the spring. These effects are amplified when the trains aren't full leading to faults that will close the ride until the weather passes, or for the remainder of the day if these faults persist. This may not seem like a big deal but trying to run two trains on a day that has very little attendance will result in an empty station house and trains that are only 1/2 or 1/4 full leading to unreliable run times, more faults and more down time. One may say, "Then don't run both daggone trains on dead days!" and you'd be absolutely right. I'll tell you an even more correct answer though because I'm like that AP exam you took in high school, and I'm sure a select few will roll their eyes at my response so for your own sake just stop reading here. Close the comment box you're prepping in the new tab and just move on over to the Cedar Point thread to cool off and talk about Christmas ornaments from the China shop.

 

Pt. 1 - Paperwork and Daily Inspections

 

All our lovely thrill seeking devices are thoroughly inspected for specific things daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, and seasonally. It's all thoroughly documented and such as any self respecting bureaucratic company would do. Anyway, there's usually going to be a documented attendance count somewhere that will dictate when a second train will be used on a ride, as little or large as it may be. A small park with very little capital set aside for maintenance is going to set that number quite high to minimize the labor, maintenance, and operating costs associated with these almost always death defying contraptions.

 

So this big number; whatever it may be, is going to greatly reduce the number of operating days that will qualify for use of a second train, for simplicity let's say 14 days. Now that's going to be a very small part of the season and based on overall attendance to the park, less than 1% of all guests from a given season will be effected by a longer than usual wait time at this specific ride. What kind of company on a tight budget would spend another 1.5 million dollars on something they'll use maybe two weeks a year?

 

Now, all of you that have made it this far and didn't stop reading when prompted to do so before are probably fuming right now, "Who does he think he is, I'm paying to go to a park and they're going to make me wait simply because I'm only a number on a clicker to them? My money isn't worth it to them?" You're right! It's silly! I totally agree with you and love the idea of a utopia world with no queue lines, that would be totally awesome! Unfortunately we live in a world where the purpose of a theme park is to make money, not satisfy coaster enthusiasts and their yearning for 24/7 walk ons. I will take yet another moment to warn those who are still skeptical of this information to kindly utilize the back button in the upper left corner of their browser, as to limit the amount of s*** posting that this thread is notorious for.

 

Pt 2. - MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY...

Queues Rihanna song

As referenced previously, theme parks are in the money making business so they're going to do whatever makes the most sense financially for themselves, and the share holders. For the sake of my sleep pattern I will not be getting into the process of buying a park, how an REIT works, or any specifics into how the complexities of an economy create a hard business environment for a small theme park. That said, looking at the price tag of a second train alone is enough to send a shiver down the spine of Chris Thorpe when someone decides to bring up the idea of running his "ride baby" like the good ol' days. That one time investment is followed by daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, and seasonal inspection and maintenance costs in itself. That's not even considering the labor required to maintain a 17 year old coaster PROTOTYPE from the most reliable of all manufacturers, INTAMIN (sarcasm). A shout out to the real MVP, the man who absolutely rocks the toilet bowl haircut, critically acclaimed amongst enthusiasts, hated by almost all mechanics, President of the US branch of Intamin, Sandor Kernacs! This guy makes it sooooooo easy to communicate any mechanical or computer issues to those with knowledge of the system, and is the absolute best at responding in a timely manner no matter what he's doing (meaning he does the exact opposite and should be a meme on here by now).

 

Hey it's a new paragraph! Thought I lost the Enter button huh? Anyways, I should probably mention the time needed to take care of all of these daily Inspections and let you know that it takes 2x as long to do this when you add another train into the mix which is rather inconvenient when a park is on a tight budget. This would mean that not only would there need to be down time to put the second train on mid day, but you'd also need to know early enough in the day so the 2 hours needed to inspect the train can be set aside, along with the necessary time for daily test cycles from both maintenance and ops. I know how much we all love sifting through old attendance statistics and analyzing the trends for certain days so this would be without a doubt a completely logical use of time for an employee at a tight budget park (sarcasm).

 

Pt. 3 - The Airtime Filled Finale

 

I'm not a steel minded objector of a second train on ROS at DL, this is really just a quickly thrown together rather vague representation of why it isn't the most practical choice, and my knowledge of why we don't have 2 trains on ROS (along with the knowledge of several experience individuals who have worked at the park for some time). Could it happen in the future? Yes, I would love to see it happen just as much as the next enthusiast, all of us together couldn't compare to what Chris Thorpe would be doing though . I'd love to go into even more detail of all the things I've seen while at the park or been told by employees about the ride that further solidify these paragraphs of nonsense, and I'm sure a handful of you would love to read it. I'm probably just sick of writing though, just as most of you are trying to read this so I will finish this conglomeration of madness with a hint for the fastest most intense rise of ROS with the new train you can get. Find the cycle with as many large riders as possible at about 3pm on a crazy hot July or August day with little to no wind at all. The last 3 hills will be something to remember, I guarantee it!

Respect for the honest post. Also I still think a lot of people are too harsh on this park. Then again, many of the people nit-picking probably don't have much else to do outside of this hobby (instead of balancing it out with college, church, friends, missions trips, hiking). I recommend feeling sorry for them.

[storms555]

I only been here once and thats way back in the summer of 2005. Maybe its changed a lot since then but if the lines still got long like I remembered I'm sure ROS only having one train would make the lines painstakingly slow...Im pretty sure back then when I went the did use two or more trains and the lines for it was like 45 mins to an hour so I can only imagine how long the lines for only one train would be. Then again since its been over 10 years since I went maybe it's lost its popularity and there isnt as many people. I just assume it being a some what big park and being so close to a popular national park it would get some pretty big crowds.

[SbSteveZ]

In other news, it looks like the PAC is turning 25 this year! I like how it's acknowledged in the logo unlike when Darien Lake turned 50 in 2014 and they didn't do anything about it. (Not that I would have thought they'd get some big attraction or something but I would've loved some merch ala KD40 or something )

[coasterbill]

I'm glad this is a midweek concert that I can't get to because otherwise I'd be tempted to go and spend way too much money.

[ajfelice]

In other news, it looks like the PAC is turning 25 this year! I like how it's acknowledged in the logo unlike when Darien Lake turned 50 in 2014 and they didn't do anything about it.

 

I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of 50th anniversary merchandise until 2031 when the amusement park turns 50. If you want to get more technical, the lake, campground, and surrounding non-amusement activities associated with it would have been the ones to celebrate. Same logic applies to the performing arts center which opened 25 years ago.

 

My bet on 2017 for Darien Lake? Nada. One thing I noticed when I checked the weather at work for my park and our "rivals" (DL and CP) is that Darien Lake did not have the best luck in 2017. The Canadian Dollar exchange rate probably hurt them just as bad if not worse. Hopefully, things stabilize under EPR and Premier for some long term plans to form and come to life.

[DougMJr]

^Also, the EPR sale will not be finalized until Q2. So, I doubt CNL would foot the bill for marketable capital and EPR likely couldn't until the sale is final.

 

Darien is still a tremendous value for local visitors. Their Season Pass alone is a steal when you think about the size of the park.

 

 

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