Eric_Smith Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Welcome to the Wooden Coaster Challenge Coming to the end of the Hyper Coaster Contest I present all of you with this! This is a Wooden Coaster Challenge that has a template loosely based on a WWS template. The Challenge is to make a wooden coaster that everyone will fear to ride, but come off with the thrill of a lifetime. The winner will be decided by 4 judges and will be based on a 100 point system. As far as rules and regulations, they are as followed -No height restriction -Must be longer than 3,000ft shorter than 6,000ft -Car length must be 5-8 cars -Train must be two bench style -Must run 1-3 trains -Must pass BOTH E-stop AND tunnel test -No G force limit other than NO red G's -Track banking must not exceed 90 Degrees -Track must stay inside red lines -Station must be placed in the box with the X -NO TRACK OR SUPPORTS are allowed into the triangles -Auto Supports may be used and CAN go out of red box. -Launches are allowed but you MUST have ONE lift hill section -Terraforming is allowed -Elementary/Newton/AHG is not allowed -Scenery is allowed -Must use template -Due date is June 4. Late entrys are allowed until June 7, but with a 25 point penalty. Announcement 5/29 In light of two early entrys and other members critiquing them, I, along with all 3 judges, have decided that once you say that "this is my entry", that is your entry. Announcement 6/5 I have asked the judges to grade by the scale posted her, as well as give their thoughts on the ride. I am gathering all 4 ratings and putting them into a notepad file. If you would like me to send you your rating, just send me a PM and I will get it to you as we all finish rating. -Judges will consist of the following people -Myself -dr.gumbo -Loefet -haux People currently signed up 1. Thelegendarymatthew - Entered 5/9 2. Exceller - Entered 6/4 3. Koolkid - Entered 5/27 4. Xpress - Entered 6/4 5. DBru - Entered 5/22 6. 4rturo - Entered 6/3 -5 points for correct track length (Automatic 0 if shorter or longer than stated rule) -5 points for correct number of cars per train (Automatic 0 otherwise) -5 points for correct style (Automatic 0 otherwise) -5 points for correct number of trains (Automatic 0 otherwise) -5 points for passing E-Stop and Tunnel Test (Automatic -2.5 per failed test) -5 points for no banking past 90 Degrees (Automatic 0 if ANY banking is past 90 Degrees) -5 points for NO red G's (Automatic -1 per instance in red) -5 Points for staying inside provided template (Automatic 0 otherwise) -5 points for no supports inside triangles (Automatic 0 otherwise) -5 points for using template (Automatic 0 otherwise) Together, all of this totals to 50 points. When you are done with this grade, give the ride a rating out of 10, and then multiply that by 5. Add this score to the point total above to get the final point total. This will give the ride a total rating out of 100. DBru_Savage.nltrack DBru's Entry Koolkid_Doom's End.nltrack Koolkid's Entry 4rturo_mad_wolf.nltrack 4rturo's Entry Exceller_Wild.nltrack Exceller's Entry Xpress_Beach_Blaster.nlpack Xpress' Entry Thelegendarymatthew_TimberStorm.nltrack Thelegendarymatthew's Entry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelegendarymatthew Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Sign me up, this will be my first NL contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC High Heat Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Why are Newton and Elementary not allowed? They're available to everyone...at least as much as the allowed AHG and modelling programs are...so there's no unfair advantage in their use. Is your intent to find the best track, or to test whether someone's bored enough to play with handles to artificially smooth a track for hours on end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.gumbo Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 ^ As much as I agree with you (to an extent), rules are rules and if you don't agree with them, don't join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loefet Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 ^^ I have to say that that is a good rule, but should also have included AHG, since this is an NoLimits coaster competition and not a NoLimits tools competition. And using tools to create the tracks don't show the skills of constructing coaster in NoLimits. Oh and by the way, I don't use any other program then NoLimits to create my coasters and I can easy whip together a good smooth coaster without much hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekoma Fan Boy Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'll give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Smith Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Why are Newton and Elementary not allowed? They're available to everyone...at least as much as the allowed AHG and modelling programs are...so there's no unfair advantage in their use. Is your intent to find the best track, or to test whether someone's bored enough to play with handles to artificially smooth a track for hours on end? As much as I can see your point, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Elementary and Newton build elements and the builder just puts them together. Don't worry, I see your point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelegendarymatthew Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Quick question When you mean stay out of the red area, do you mean the outer red or the inner red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarmor Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I never use tools...leave that to the pros at the coaster companies. i always thought when you use tools its not really showing off your talents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Smith Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Quick question When you mean stay out of the red area, do you mean the outer red or the inner red? Give me a minute, I will upload a new template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelegendarymatthew Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Oh yeah I wanted to say this. Why do you want to use tools, when you have someone who just got the game a week ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Can I move the template up, so it doesn't get in the way when I'm building (using the different views)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC High Heat Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 It wasn't so much a matter of me wanting or not wanting to join, it was just a question of the judge's reasoning. The way I see it, through years of building both ways: in Elementary, the user still has to input variables to make the element how they want it...and most don't do a very good job of controlling Elementary. That means Elementary does most of the work for these users, and the user mostly puts the ride together, though not to the extent that was implied by some. I think, however, that those who don't control Elementary very well end up having tracks that are technically worse than those from the average decent handbuilder. Having initially worked by hand for years, then moving to Elementary (and learning tons through my years of Elementary work), I've noticed that for me personally to get as much as possible out of Elementary, I have to know exactly what I want, and how to get to that point. It's not nearly as simple as some of you might think, at least if you want to do things decently. I guess there haven't been too many Elementary tracks around here, so maybe my point here would be clearer if you were to compare a weak Elementary built track to one from a real good designer, like say Jakizle. That difference I'm sure will be clear for those who have some understanding of coasters, and should help one see that there is in fact at least an equal amount of skill involved in Elementary building. Only change is it's a different type of skill. I fully agree that it does take talent to build rides well by hand, but as I just noted I think that particular talent is not the only talent involved in designing rides, and more importantly, nowhere near what I consider to be the most important talent in NL. I think the most important thing, at least for me, is to make a ride as good as possible, and that takes more talent than simply being able to smooth or shape a ride by hand. That's what I strive for...and it's something independing of building style, meaning you can achieve it nomatter how you go about it; handbuilding or through tools. Great to challenge oneself, or try to prove something...all that is lots of fun. But why limit yourselves when you know there's something that may be better for you out there? Shoot for the stars! haha Oh, and when you move a vertex, mathematical formulas for the curves determine your shaping for you...as opposed to say drawing a picture, where you make the shapes and textures yourself. In Elementary, it's almost exactly the same...except you type values in to shape the element. So the term "handbuilding" is a bit of a misnomer. I guess it all comes down to what you want out of the program. Handbuilding is completely legit, if that's what you want. If you want to make 10,000' long tracks with over-the-top forces...and you find that fun...then that's awesome, too. As jarmor suggested, coaster companies don't modify their tracks by hand at all, and that for me is a reason to do the same. If there wasn't talent involved in that, though, then the real rides wouldn't be as good and many of us may not be as interested in coasters. Agreed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Smith Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 It wasn't so much a matter of me wanting or not wanting to join, it was just a question of the judge's reasoning. The way I see it, through years of building both ways: in Elementary, the user still has to input variables to make the element how they want it...and most don't do a very good job of controlling Elementary. That means Elementary does most of the work for these users, and the user mostly puts the ride together, though not to the extent that was implied by some. I think, however, that those who don't control Elementary very well end up having tracks that are technically worse than those from the average decent handbuilder. Having initially worked by hand for years, then moving to Elementary (and learning tons through my years of Elementary work), I've noticed that for me personally to get as much as possible out of Elementary, I have to know exactly what I want, and how to get to that point. It's not nearly as simple as some of you might think, at least if you want to do things decently. I guess there haven't been too many Elementary tracks around here, so maybe my point here would be clearer if you were to compare a weak Elementary built track to one from a real good designer, like say Jakizle. That difference I'm sure will be clear for those who have some understanding of coasters, and should help one see that there is in fact at least an equal amount of skill involved in Elementary building. Only change is it's a different type of skill. I fully agree that it does take talent to build rides well by hand, but as I just noted I think that particular talent is not the only talent involved in designing rides, and more importantly, nowhere near what I consider to be the most important talent in NL. I think the most important thing, at least for me, is to make a ride as good as possible, and that takes more talent than simply being able to smooth or shape a ride by hand. That's what I strive for...and it's something independing of building style, meaning you can achieve it nomatter how you go about it; handbuilding or through tools. Great to challenge oneself, or try to prove something...all that is lots of fun. But why limit yourselves when you know there's something that may be better for you out there? Shoot for the stars! haha Oh, and when you move a vertex, mathematical formulas for the curves determine your shaping for you...as opposed to say drawing a picture, where you make the shapes and textures yourself. In Elementary, it's almost exactly the same...except you type values in to shape the element. So the term "handbuilding" is a bit of a misnomer. I guess it all comes down to what you want out of the program. Handbuilding is completely legit, if that's what you want. If you want to make 10,000' long tracks with over-the-top forces...and you find that fun...then that's awesome, too. As jarmor suggested, coaster companies don't modify their tracks by hand at all, and that for me is a reason to do the same. If there wasn't talent involved in that, though, then the real rides wouldn't be as good and many of us may not be as interested in coasters. Agreed? I completely agree. And the mistake I made in the rules is that AHG does kind of build a track for you. I guess that if AHG is allowed, then Elementary?Newton should be allowed and vice versa. What do the judges think? AHG out, or Elementary/Newton in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC High Heat Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 haha that kinda was the opposite of my point but I can't really be mad at anyone who says they agree with me haha : P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exceller Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Count me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Smith Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 haha that kinda was the opposite of my point but I can't really be mad at anyone who says they agree with me haha : P I just see your point in a strange way. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 The difference in AHG/Elementary is that in AHG, you are still completely hand-building the track...the program just helps you to heartline it. With other tools, you type in formulas, and the program COMPLETELY builds the track for you. Nonetheless, I would rather you just through AHG out of the picture. I've never seen a contest full of completely hand-built tracks, so this could get very interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelegendarymatthew Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Can someone please explain AHG and Elementry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarmor Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 how about do it the old fashion way and no tools at all... Matter fact no auto support generator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelegendarymatthew Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 ^If that happens, I'm outta here! I just started this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC High Heat Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Don't forget the autosmoother jarmor, because that also does stuff for you. Matter of fact, all the math involved in making the space curves work should be eliminated too. All the user is doing is moving vertices around, and the curves get made for them. Good call...it clearly doesn't make sense to use No Limits in a No Limits wooden coaster contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the ghost Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I'm in, and I got my laptop back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Smith Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Can I move the template up, so it doesn't get in the way when I'm building (using the different views)? If you can find a way to move it up without going side to side, yes. Otherwise no. As for the AHG debate, I have decided that all tools will NOT BE allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.gumbo Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Not sure why everyone was bashing the likes of elementary and what not. If people want to built their tracks that way, so be it. And no, it isn't 'easier' to use tools and it isn't lazy, there are a hell of a lot of things that tools can do that would be mega difficult to do with hand-building (helix's for example). Of coarse people can just go for tooling over-kill (i.e. letting the tools make a ride you didn't intend to build) but a lot can be achieved from their use. I just think people need to get a 'good' balance between tools and hand-building and besides, its the quality of the final ride which matters, not how it was made. All that said, I like the idea of keeping this contest for hand-building only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now