Kings Island (KI) Discussion Thread

[SFOGdude25]

^That's Stealth. People always use the wrong photos for coasters. I see it happen ALL THE TIME.

[cjeagle35]

So you guys are telling me the GP is "dumb"? They don't give a rat's flying a$$ about coasters and parks! Yes we like roller coasters, but is it necessary to call others dumb because they don't have the same hobby as we do?

 

It would be totally wrong to call the GP dumb. They just don't have the coaster knowledge as all of us. Most just haven't heard of X-Flight or GL. The ride will be new to them simply because they don't know about its history. They don't know that there are better rides than Firehawk. So are they dumb? Definatly not, they just haven't experianced as many parks as we have. However does this even make a difference to them? No, they will enjoy Firehawk and they will enjoy their time at KI. Will they really care that they got a used Vekoma Flyer rather than a B&M? No, all they know is KI got a new ride, its fun and I had a good time. Therefore I'll be willing to spend money to go there, and I'll come back some day.

[ginzo]

As long as your park resides in a huge metropolitain area and you get a huge number of season passholders by updating kiddy attractions, your park will be financially successful.

 

Explain SFMM then.

 

If you look at top 10 US parks in terms of attendance, they are all run by Disney, Univeral, and Busch. Not coincidentally, those companies invest the most into their parks. They have awesome parks with top quality attractions. Your "fool the GP with cheap crap" model might allow you to skate by, but you're not going to see rapid growth in attendance/profits.

 

And if PKI and Canada's Wonderland were so financially successful, why did Paramount want to dump them so badly? You don't unload cash cows.

[ghost007jas]

You guys do realize that when people say that the GP is dumb they mean they have zero coaster and theme park knowledge.

 

I think this is an excellent move by cedar fair. I have had the pleasure of experiencing a Vekoma flyer and if this is anything like PGA's stealth then I dont see what you gus are complaining about. It is a new coaster after all and a nice addition to the park. It may not be a new coaster but to the GP it may as well be.....Basically I mean to say that I dont get what you guys are complaining about. Looks like a nice coaster and hey its a new coaster if nothing else.

[cjeagle35]

Explain SFMM then.

Wait, I thought SFMM's attendence has been slipping lately? The general public cares much more about service than they do about great attractions. SFMM has gotten great rides lately, yet there attendence isn't that great because guests want to have a good time firstly. If the rides are fun, and they park treats them well, they'll spend money there. On the other hand, if a park has every type of B&M coaster avalible, but doesn't run them consistantly, doesn't run them to full capacity, and the park is dirty and the workers rude, they won't be willing to spend their money there.

 

If you look at top 10 US parks in terms of attendance, they are all run by Disney, Univeral, and Busch. Not coincidentally, those companies invest the most into their parks.

 

Right, of course they are. That is because they are resort experiances and can run all year long. Unlike KI which mostly attracts season pass holders and the local public, and runs for only half the year. Disney can afford to offer the best attractions, they make exponentially more money than KI.

 

They have awesome parks with top quality attractions. Your "fool the GP with cheap crap" model might allow you to skate by, but you're not going to see rapid growth in attendance/profits.

 

How is KI going to get rapid growth in attendence? Southwest Ohio is definatly not an growing part of the country, and it is definatly not the tourism spot that Florida is. Parks like KI have seemed to reach a plateau in attendence. But Firehawk will raise attendence for a year or 2, allowing the park to make money. Thats all they want from this attraction.

 

And if PKI and Canada's Wonderland were so financially successful, why did Paramount want to dump them so badly? You don't unload cash cows.

 

Basically, because CBS wanted out of the amusement parks business, that was it. The parks are certainly successful, that is why they are getting new attractions.

[ginzo]

How is KI going to get rapid growth in attendence?

 

By having a park that doesn't suck. They could start with installing better rides; rides that don't give you a headache.

 

Basically, because CBS wanted out of the amusement parks business, that was it. The parks are certainly successful, that is why they are getting new attractions.

 

They were making their numbers, but obviously it wasn't a cash machine. I don't think it's crazy to assume that they'd make more money with nicer parks. But that takes someone with Walt Disney-like balls. And they didn't have it.

 

The whole Paramount Parks concept was pretty half-cocked. But, it didn't have to be that way. One idea would be to not name rides after movies that nobody has seen, like Face Off.

[cjeagle35]

By having a park that doesn't suck. They could start with installing better rides; rides that don't give you a headache.

 

That gets back to the main reason why we are having this arguement. People will still come if they build second rate rides. So why spend the money to build something better? The only way KI could have the huge growth you describe would be to become a resort destination, like CP. However, we all know CF doesn't want that to happen.

 

They were making their numbers, but obviously it wasn't a cash machine. I don't think it's crazy to assume that they'd make more money with nicer parks. But that takes someone with Walt Disney-like balls. And they didn't have it.

 

Why would it be logical to put a Disney-like park in Southwest Ohio? KI was a regonial amusement park, and it will stay a regional amusement park.

 

The whole Paramount Parks concept was pretty half-cocked. But, it didn't have to be that way. One idea would be to not name rides after movies that nobody has seen, like Face Off.

 

I certainly agree with you on this, Paramount definatly messed up some very beautiful parks. At one time, with Bat, Beast, King Cobra, and Vortex, KI was the industry leader. But Paramount didn't feel world class rides were worth it, at least not at KI, where you have to compete with CP.

[ginzo]

That gets back to the main reason why we are having this arguement. People will still come if they build second rate rides. So why spend the money to build something better?

 

Because they might actually come back a few times in one season if they don't leave the first time with a headache. Higher quality rides tend to break less as well. They could have built a really nice hyper with the money they incinerated on SOB.

 

Why would it be logical to put a Disney-like park in Southwest Ohio? KI was a regonial amusement park, and it will stay a regional amusement park.

 

It doesn't have to be at that level. But, again, a nicer park would certainly win more business.

 

I certainly agree with you on this, Paramount definatly messed up some very beautiful parks. At one time, with Bat, Beast, King Cobra, and Vortex, KI was the industry leader. But Paramount didn't feel world class rides were worth it, at least not at KI, where you have to compete with CP.

 

The Paramount Parks thing could have been done in a much better way. A little creativity goes a long way.

[CoastersNSich]

Yeah, it totally fits in with all those cheesy low-budget SNES games from the early 90s:

 

You asked for it, Robb: http://firehawksnes.ytmnd.com/

[ginzo]

Yeah, it totally fits in with all those cheesy low-budget SNES games from the early 90s:

 

You asked for it, Robb: http://firehawksnes.ytmnd.com/

 

Nice! I used to be way into YTMND. It hasn't been so great lately. Dickcream.com was better when it was up.

[TheGreatOne]

I don't see how anyone can defend this awful decision. Here's a few reasons why this blows:

 

Maverick

Griffon

Flying Turns

Mystery Mine

Renegade

 

Everyone else seems to be installing awesome rides this year.

 

I'm not defending the decision, but this reasoning sucks and reeks of Spoiled Enthusiast Syndrome.

 

Here are some arguments with shreds of legitimacy:

 

1.) X-Flight has been marred by technical problems from day one. Those problems have been somewhat remedied, but the ride is still prone to awful breakdowns.

 

2.) The ride has a capacity of 400 riders per train an hour. That is INSANELY low. It has only two operable trains. 800 riders per hour is the MAXIMUM throughput of the ride. That means if the ride ops are slow (and they will be at the beginning trying to figure out how to run this complicated ride) or if a rider gets sick and vomits, you can lose 100 riders per hour somewhat easily.

 

3.) The ride has so many advanced technologies built into the trains that if one or two minor things go wrong, you can lose a train for most or the entirety of the day. (This is according to someone who "op-ed" the ride at GL) That knocks down capacity to a maximum of 400 riders an hour.

 

4.) At Geauga Lake, a park that annually gets 1/5th of the attendance of Kings Island, people were waiting at least 30 minutes for the ride on slow days. Why then would you move it to a park that easily has 5 times as many people to jam the lines? There are going to be some angry, angry guests at Kings Island.

 

See? Those arguments are at least halfway legitimate. If you're whining that KI isn't getting a Maverick or Mystery Mine, get a CF Maxx Pass and go to CP a lot and shill for a Dollywood pass (they're fairly cheap to upgrade from a one-day ticket early in the year) and you can make a few trips to Dollywood to ride Mystery Mine since it's only 5 hours away.

 

But don't point at what other parks are getting and base it off of what Fireowl is. That just sucks.

 

I can't say that I'm thrilled with the addition of Fireowl, but I'm hoping it will shorten lines for Delirium and Drop Zone...that will make me happy.

 

-Bryan "already has his CF Maxx Pass" Wood

[bigboy61483]

well, that's vekoma for ya. this reminds me of what deja vu was like when that opened up on day 1. they both have had their problems remedied, but they still have their breakdowns. i'm in agreement with ya. i only wish they left x-flight where it was.

 

from http://www.cincinatti.com, that wasn't x-flight. the coaster didn't have a corkscrew. i've had the experience to see that the only true inversion was the vertical loop. well, let's hope that KI will get some success out of this coaster.

[ginzo]

I'm not defending the decision, but this reasoning sucks and reeks of Spoiled Enthusiast Syndrome.

 

Nonsense. The GP loves great rides as well. Are you really going to tell me that if PKI installed a great ride, like an Intamin hypercoaster, that the GP wouldn't know the difference between it and this "one-of-a-kind" Vekoma trash or Face/Off? The long queues for great rides in other parks illustrate this. Great rides are good for business, because people want to ride them.

 

Wanting your home park to have some decent rides that don't bash your skull is hardly indicative of a spoiled person. Had PKI been smart throughout the years they would already have excellent rides.

 

But don't point at what other parks are getting and base it off of what Fireowl is. That just sucks.

 

Sorry but merely saying that my point sucks doesn't make it so. Why does it suck? You neglected to clarify that. I still believe it's a valid point. It points to what an second rate park PKI is. Valleyfair! has less than 1/3rd the attendance that PKI has, but they're getting an awesome new coaster.

 

 

I can't say that I'm thrilled with the addition of Fireowl, but I'm hoping it will shorten lines for Delirium and Drop Zone...that will make me happy.

 

You've just bolstered my point. All you want to ride at PKI is a few flat rides. Doesn't that suck? Wouldn't it be nice to have a real coaster there? Oh wait, we're just spoiled enthusiasts. Nevermind.

 

 

-Bryan "already has his CF Maxx Pass" Wood

 

Wow, dude. That's pretty cool. I hope I'm cool enough to get a Maxx Pass one day.

[ghost007jas]

Are you really going to tell me that if PKI installed a great ride, like an Intamin hypercoaster, that the GP wouldn't know the difference between it and this "one-of-a-kind" Vekoma trash or Face/Off?

 

Umm yea pretty much. How in God's name do the GP know that first of all this is a relocated ride? Oh thats right a whining fan boy tells them and ruins it all. The GP don't only not know they don't really care. Half of them wouldn't know the difference between a "high quality" ride as compared to a "low quality ride" This is why you see at Knotts especially lines of the same length for a vekoma boomerang and an intamin Rocket coaster.

[ginzo]

Umm yea pretty much. How in God's name do the GP know that first of all this is a relocated ride? Oh thats right a whining fan boy tells them and ruins it all. The GP don't only not know they don't really care. Half of them wouldn't know the difference between a "high quality" ride as compared to a "low quality ride" This is why you see at Knotts especially lines of the same length for a vekoma boomerang and an intamin Rocket coaster.

 

From rcdb:

Roller Coaster: Xcelerator

Capacity: 1330 riders per hour

 

 

Roller Coaster: Boomerang

Capacity: 760 riders per hour

 

Assuming that your "lines of the same length" observation is correct, this suggests that Xcelerator is roughly twice as popular as Boomerang. Thanks for illustrating my point!

[gravitywolf216]

Geauga Lake is my home park, and I dont understand why they would continually sink so much money into that giga-lame water park when,

 

A. the weather here is usually to cold or rainy

 

B.nobody even really goes to water parks in ohio, and they all suck here (see A.)

 

And if they are just gonna close the park, (I said it since the day they anounced it) why waste the money?

[ghost007jas]

From rcdb:

Roller Coaster: Xcelerator

Capacity: 1330 riders per hour

 

 

Roller Coaster: Boomerang

Capacity: 760 riders per hour

 

Assuming that your "lines of the same length" observation is correct, this suggests that Xcelerator is roughly twice as popular as Boomerang. Thanks for illustrating my point!

 

Now cut Xcelerators in half since they were running only one train. OH MY GOSH! Now boomerangs capacity is now higher than Xcelerators. Hmm explain that for me oh wise and powerful one

[ginzo]

From rcdb:

Roller Coaster: Xcelerator

Capacity: 1330 riders per hour

 

 

Roller Coaster: Boomerang

Capacity: 760 riders per hour

 

Assuming that your "lines of the same length" observation is correct, this suggests that Xcelerator is roughly twice as popular as Boomerang. Thanks for illustrating my point!

 

Now cut Xcelerators in half since they were running only one train. OH MY GOSH! Now boomerangs capacity is now higher than Xcelerators. Hmm explain that for me oh wise and powerful one

 

Slow day? Are you really suggesting that Boomerang is as much of a draw as Xcelerator? Is that really your point? I'm trying to hold back my laughing here.

[ghost007jas]

^ God your an idiot. YES! That is what I am saying! The GP loves a cheap crappy vekoma boomerang just as much as a super expensive Intamin rocket coaster.

[ginzo]

^ God your an idiot.

 

Quote of the day! Allow me to give you a suggestion. Before you insult someone's intelligence, it's best to learn how to write first.

[ghost007jas]

Argh must you keep on going with it? Its obvious that the General Public does not care as much as the enthusiast community does. Does this mean that this ride would do better than a B&M hyper or something of the like? Of course not that logically makes no sense. But shouldn't you be happy that your getting a new ride? Its better than losing a ride like several of the Cedar Fair parks seem to be doing.

[Wes]

Ginzo and Ghost: Stop it. Both of you. Close this thread and go outside. This is a warning.

[cjeagle35]

Why can't you just be happy your getting a coaster? There are plenty of parks that would be happy with a used Vekoma. Not everybody is getting something from Intamin this year.

[elbertivory2006]

I love new flying coasters. I cant wait.

[ginzo]

Ginzo and Ghost: Stop it. Both of you. Close this thread and go outside. This is a warning.

 

I wish I could go outside. It's 5F with the wind chill.