KDCOASTERFAN

Ohh I'm sure they will. I'm not happy about the decision to add fastlane to the park one bit as this will make waits for the already busy rides even worse.

Can't really tell but is that the hurler exit ramp in the foreground? if so it looks like it may make the queue for windseeker,at least judging by the fact that the person taking the photo was standing in it to get the shot.

I'm opposed to their fastlane system,it didn't work for SFI (in particular SFA) & it's not gonna go over well at KD either.

It wouldn't suprise me seeing as KD really needs to repaint it but hasn't made any effort to do so in nearly two years since they strted.

Nice,let's see how long we have till vertical construction?then again,KD's tower parts arrived a while ago & so far nothing has gone up yet.

While the roto-shake provides a decent thrill I don't think SFI would add one to their parks after the maintenance problems SFA had with iron eagle.

Agreed. The Big 4 don't need the minimal attendance boosts that rotating the rides will give, and I can see some people actually choosing not to renew their pass because their favorite ride is taken out, so honestly I feel like that strategy is a bit counterproductive when you factor in all the costs of moving a coaster and marketing it to a new audience. To me the smartest thing to do would be to build brand new high-class rides for the smaller parks and rotate those around which should guarantee higher numbers at those parks and an extra little boost each year that a new ride is brought it. Almost strikes me as a travelling carnival sort of thing. That can be solved by simply taking a break from over expanding the bigger parks & instead focus capital on the smaller ones....this is something that the previous management(Burke & Story) didn't get because the key reason WHY the big 4 were seeing attendance increases year after year is due in large part to the fact that those parks actually got new rides that they didn't really need & that should've gone to the smaller parks to help build them up. All of those coasters SFMM got over the years for instance(just to win a stupid "most coasters in a single park" title) could've been put to better use at some of the parks SFI ignored in the process over the past decade.

I just read somewthing about it on gadvhistory's forums & it is making sense now.Acording to sources SFI wants the big 4 parks to rotate out coasters once every few years to other parks in the chain,this explains why IW & DV were relocated for the 2012 season to two smaller parks,namely SFA & SFNE. So they're starting that program up again, eh? Then I guess I should get my last few rides in before it ends up at another SF, and ultimately the scrap heap. Are there any coasters from the original Ride Rotation Program that are still around today? Wasn't inclusion in the program an eventual death sentence for rides? I think La ronde's SLC is the only one remaining in operation from the recent RRP,as for the RRP of the 80's early 90's that I don't know.

I just read somewthing about it on gadvhistory's forums & it is making sense now.Acording to sources SFI wants the big 4 parks to rotate out coasters once every few years to other parks in the chain,this explains why IW & DV were relocated for the 2012 season to two smaller parks,namely SFA & SFNE.

Well Great Adventure just added their fifth B&M this year so anything can happen. But if you think about it, the ride was relocated, technically it isn't a "new ride" knowing the ride was living in Kentucky Kingdom from 1997-2009. All they did with Chang was ship it off to Six Flags Great America, then re-shipped to Six Flags Great Adventure where they stole one of Riddler's trains from Six Flags Magic Mountain, then SFGAdv painted the ride Green and Black, themed it to Green Lantern, and called it a new ride. Same with Bizzaro, all they did was repaint the ride, give it the "Bizzaro" treatment, installed on-board audio, added some fog and fire and branded it as a new ride. I could go continue this with Six Flags Magic Mountain's 4 rides(S:EFK, Magic Flyer, Road Runner, and X2) but my laptop is dying. The thing about it is that the locals,who don't know a thing about how many parks SFI has didn't see chang/GL as a used ride from another park,just as those at SFA don't see IW as the used ride it is.All they see is a new coaster/ride in the park that wasn't there the previous year & they flock to it.

The only time I've ever seen Bizarro with a line was during Fright Fest. Bizarro could be the major attraction at a smaller Six Flags park like St. Louis, America, The Great Escape, or Over Texas. But, I would hate to see it go. Bizarro is my one ride that I always count on to be a walk on, and it was my first B&M coaster. If it does end up being removed I can assure you it won't end up at SFA,they were lucky enough to get IW for starters & I don't see SFI giving them another coaster anytime soon after that...second with dominator being down at KD why would SFI even try to put in a similar ride at SFA? I could see SFGRAM getting it though since there are currently no floorless coasters in the midwest.

Anyone think vertical construction will begin soon?

That's been posted before I think.

Yup. These two new trains are the prototype/first production trains from Gerstlauer, and will be LAP BAR ONLY...as His coasters should be! However, this is just the start, I think. I'm hoping SFMM is watching HP for those new trains... and gets the hint! Would be nice if only California would revoke the rule requiring all looping coasters to have the dreaded OTSR's.

You're making this seem like Michigan's Adventure. CGA already has enough flats and already has two family coasters: Woodstock Express & Psycho Mouse I do expect a major roller coaster because look at SFA, they finally got Apocalypse, sure most parks think of this as a horrible addition, but they got something. I do expect somewhat of a major coaster because CGA is in competition with SFDK, and the problem is that a lot people I know go all the way to SFDK from the South Bay rather than going to CGA which is in their "backyard". Why? Teens - CGA doesn't have as much thrills as SFDK Families - CGA has no animals, let's go to SFDK! (or Happy Hollow for really small kids). CGA cannot compete with the family atmosphere because there already is two family amusement parks: Happy Hollow & Gilroy Gardens. Though. CGA can compete in thrills. If they spent money on that GCI coaster, around $10 million in investment, advertise it like crazy just like how SFDK did with Sky Screamer, than the attendance would skyrocket. When comparing CGA to SFA it's kind of a mute point as the two parks are run by two different companies with their own business strategies,had SFI not come under new ownership then 2012 would be another waterpark add on for SFA if they were lucky & IW would've simply been scrapped rather than relocated. Still CGA could do well to see some new developments made,the park cannot survive in it's current state unless new rides/attractions are added as an incentive to draw people back to the park.

Ec ven with the newer restraints Vortex at carowinds was horrid so chaging them on CGA's version won't help.

Adding rides is exactly why the park was "killed" off - adding anymore would probably sealed its fault sooner. The park had too many assets for the amount of revenue/attendance that was generated. Hence why high-maintence rides like X-Flight were shipped out quick to help cut some of the huge maintenance budget. Kinzel has gone on record (prior to the Paramount Deal) that one of his biggest regret was not purchasing Geauga Lake when he had the chance in the mid-90s from FunTimes Inc. If they purchased it then I think it would have been another story - I would guess Cedar Fair would maintain it as a local attraction not try to over-expand it. The factors I believe are: 1) Too much, too fast - There is a reason no existing parks have added the amount of capital Six Flags did for the 2000 season. It throws off the balance sheet. 2) Six Flags directly went after Cedar Point (anyone remember the old SFO commercials - "We drove past Cedar Point to get here"). They went strong after the Detroit market - which was 4 hours+ away and had Cedar Point in-between. Whether it was marketing or captial they went after the wrong audience. 3) The area physically couldn't handle it - and the government didn't help. The park was a legal mess. Anyone who followed the park in the early '00s will remember the many legal battles the park faced (especially when it became SFWoA and it sat between two counties). Simple things like rerouting a service road was big point of contention in local court. The long-rumored hyper coaster was argued in court forever to try to get both cities to approve the height. Didn't help literally 50 feet from some of the rides were houses. The only real route to the park was a 10-min drive down a two lane road passed an increasing number of wealthy subdivisions whose residents didn't like the welcome attention. I honestly believe Cedar Fair buying the park and reopening it as Geauga Lake was one of the better things that could have happened. Who is not to say SF wouldn't have killed it also ala AstroWorld? I attended the media ceremony for the "grand reopening" and just talking to some of the execs and hearing them speak there was one consistent message - they wanted to "bring back the fun" by transforming it back into a smaller local park. Maybe I drank the koolaid but that seemed to be the right idea - trim the assets to match revenue and attendance and get back to what made the park successful for the first 50+ years. They even brought in some of their top leaders from the Point. Could CF have done a better job? Maybe a few things seemed to hurt them off the bat - including the park's rep with the local residents and government and some ticketing issues (i.e. fail with the season pass tie-in with Cedar Point). I think did the right thing by trimming the fat - honestly I wondered if they could've done more. Kinzel has also admitted removing the animals hurt more than they would have thought. I think my point is the park survived for so long (considering a large number of Cleveland/Youngstown parks didn't make it) because it was a local place - trying to turning it into a large force didn't work as planed (who's not to say if it was built up over time as local infrastructure was expanded that it wouldn't have worked. Cedar Fair is always painted as the bad guy when it comes to the final closure but I can't help but see it as they bought a sinking ship and couldn't repair it fast enough to keep it afloat. The way the public saw things however was that CF gave the impression that they were gonna start adding new rides rather than removing what was there & when that didn't happen they turned away in favor of the other two players in the region(CP & KI)I think that,had CF waited just a little longer to make an investment to replce x-flight & SV for instance it might've made a difference....using SFAW as an example SFI under Burke didn't make any investments before closing it citing lack of room when they could've removed outdated rides & replaced them with new ones to maintain public interest. I would have to agree that SFI did indeed make a mistake in overexpanding the newly flagged parks & should've paced themselves out better as that would've given the public a feel for the new additions,and allow them to guage their response while at the same time saving money on the cost of new rides chainwide,the fact that the national economy tanked & has yet to fully recover didn't help matters either.

Ididn't say that it was a bad thing,at least in the beginning but I would have to say that it has gotten somewhat out of hand in recent years....I mean look at how much different & possibly better) many of the regional parks in the US might be had the two major player(SFI & CF) not gotten involved in spending millions on just coasters & used that same revenue to focus on other aspects of their parks.

Premiere parks wasn't purchased by six flags,it was the other way around with six flags being purchased by premiere parks in 98. It was SFI under the premiere parks management that killd SFWOA/GL by not adding new rides to the park just prior to the sale to CF in 04 due in large part to their focus shifting toward SFMM & SFGRADV recieving ride after ride at the expense of the other parks.CF inherited a troubled park that SFI would've never sold if they could've kept running it at a profit but that's just my .002 cents.

Thanks,I think I can handle the height well since I'm used to I305 & DT & can handle riding them without a problem.

this makes me laugh. 1 full year to dismantle a ride? Why would you dismantle it? You think someone else is going to buy it? Demolition of a ride like that would be easy and a lot quicker than you think. Its called a few big pieces of machinery and possibly a wrecking ball if needed. It would only take a long time if you intended to resell it. Good luck finding someone to relocate that thing. And we know that a ride in its place takes 1 winter to complete. I also really, really doubt that the ride draws people. I am there 15-20 times a year, all seasons, weekdays and weekends and Ive even been there on some of the busiest days and the ride will have a 15min wait. It has literally zero ridership. Someone who op's it needs to verify my belief here with some numbers but I am almost 99% sure the ridership on that ride has plummeted in recent years. I dont look at this from an enthusiast perspective. The only reason anyone is back in that part of the park is Maverick. Before that, no one was back there. Even then, Mean Streak didnt draw anyone. Financially, yes its a bit of money up front. But I still see the long term gain by installing something like a GCI or a TGG with Timberliners being far better for the park. It would mean the back area gets a new look. Fresh paint, fresh design. New, more realiable coaster. Saves money on maintenance. Draw more people and get more people to walk all the way around the park, spending more money on souveniers and food. I look at it from the perspective of money. What is there to be gained. In this case - a lot. Right now, its a rotting shell of its former self. Most people do not like it, nor do they go out of their way to ride it. The reputation it has spans all peoples, enthusiast and once a year park goer. They destroyed Hercules in about a years time and that had a whole section over water. Mean Streak being somewhat compact layout - thats an easy demo. Collapse on itself, bring in haulers, truck it away. Clean area, prep it and it could sit for a year and the new ride could be installed the next year. I really dont think at this point the "most coasters" race is as focused on. If it were, Cedar Fair would have kept up with SFMM. Right now, with this economy, its about making PROFITS and securing long term cash flow. Capital expenditures that generate money (like water park additions/expansions) and quality rides. MS is not a quality ride. No one goes there specifically to ride it. I can however name people who specifically go to ride Raptor, TTD, MF, Magnum, Maverick, even Mantis. MS doesnt have that appeal. And with Kinzel gone & Quimett in the new guy might not give a rat's rear end about stupid records such as most coasters in a single park....after all it was Kinzel who started that nonsense but he's not in charge anymore.

To anyone who's ridden windseeker what's the puke factor?I'm curious seeing as the ride rotates up to 30 MPH & I get kinda queasy riding things like SFA's pirate's flight but handle wave swinger just fine.

I think they may just be waiting until the crane arrives to remove the rest of the flume. The rest of the ride could be taken out with a bulldozer without much thought, but since the last lift/drop are over the top of Wild One, the demolition would have to be a much more delicate process and require a crane to lift pieces off. If they wait and use the same crane to finish the demolition and then build Apocalypse they would probably save a lot of money as opposed to two different rental contracts/insurance contracts/etc. I don't think so because they removed the lower parts of lift #2 a long time ago & some of those removed sections surely required a crane to do so.I think keeping the flume part in the skull would add to the theming especially if you consider the fact that the back side of the skull is open

I doubt it because SFI & SFMM have paid big money to use travel channel to advertise their park & attractions.

Didn't the skull once have a waterfall back in the 90's when the ride first opened? I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for theming,since when has SFA ever really tried to theme any of the recent ride installations? When the place was AW they tried a little harder than they have now.