Lagoon Discussion Thread

[Canobie Coaster]

Think this will be completed before the Flying Turns was? Kidding.

 

I can't wait to hear how this rides when they get it open. The ride is definitely one-of-a-kind and that drop looks like it could be one of the best in the country.

[pǝʇɹǝʌuı]

Is there any word on why Canibal is still not open? Even Six Flags managed to get their rides open by Memorial Day.

 

The park is silent, but it was noted that a new train was uncrated on Thursday, and there may still be as many as 2 more to be delivered. There was a rumor that the park was not satisfied with the restraints and they were re-designed (as well as countless other rumors). I have no idea if it's true but it would explain the highly delayed arrival of trains and the seat that was removed from a test train and sent to the "padding manufacturer for sculpting" or something like that according to the park's Facebook page.

 

There's also a small decorative fence in front of the station that's bent, so maybe it's because of that.

 

Where did you hear this? I'm not doubting, just curious. I really hope it doesn't end up with OTSRs. I think that would severely take away from this seemingly world-class ride experience.

[Jetstar2]

Where did you hear this? I'm not doubting, just curious. I really hope it doesn't end up with OTSRs. I think that would severely take away from this seemingly world-class ride experience.

 

It's a rumor that's been thrown out on the LiF forum once or twice. You might be wise to doubt it. It's something that may or may not be true. If it is true the redesign was not nearly as radical as you are thinking. Cannibal most certainly still doesn't have OTSR's.

[pǝʇɹǝʌuı]

Where did you hear this? I'm not doubting, just curious. I really hope it doesn't end up with OTSRs. I think that would severely take away from this seemingly world-class ride experience.

 

It's a rumor that's been thrown out on the LiF forum once or twice. You might be wise to doubt it. It's something that may or may not be true. If it is true the redesign was not nearly as radical as you are thinking. Cannibal most certainly still doesn't have OTSR's.

 

To the GP it might need to Cannibal is going to have more hangtime than most rides with inversions that have OTSR's

[RCF]

Where did you hear this? I'm not doubting, just curious. I really hope it doesn't end up with OTSRs. I think that would severely take away from this seemingly world-class ride experience.

 

It's a rumor that's been thrown out on the LiF forum once or twice. You might be wise to doubt it. It's something that may or may not be true. If it is true the redesign was not nearly as radical as you are thinking. Cannibal most certainly still doesn't have OTSR's.

It's being thrown around the GP like it's true. From test dummies being thrown off Cannibal, to injuring peoples' waists. I've heard many different rumors from co-workers that come to me asking if it's true.

[Jetstar2]

Cannibal has laptrays with metal bars on them and leg cuffs. The restraints are very similar but not identical to those on Wicked (and Impulse). I saw them (from a distance) with my own eyes over Memorial day weekend. If there was any redesign, it was just reshaping of the laptrays and/or seats.

 

This past week has seen the installation of signage, a one way gate to direct the flow of guests, a mural in the ride's station, replacement of the temporary access to the control panel with a permanent structure, and apparent time-lapse filming of the sun moving across the ride (assumed to be for an upcoming commercial).

 

Everything visible that seems to need finishing has either been finished, or is being worked on. I wouldn't be surprised if the park announces later today that it'll open Friday when the park begins weekday operation.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. The park has said almost nothing since they announced the ride in September.

[linearinduction]

Is there any reason for their ridiculous single rider policy?

+

Why are single riders not allowed in the front seats? Surely there'd be plenty of witnesses in the rows behind? Unless I am missing something obvious (very possible!)

 

Yes, you are, but they wouldn't want to spell it out for you. It's in case the train hits a person who is not on the ride but near the track. To call a policy that aims to insure that at least two people have a front-row seat to any such event a "safety precaution" is ridiculous IMO. Nobody is safer for having witnessed that.

+

Yes, you are, but they wouldn't want to spell it out for you. It's in case the train hits a person who is not on the ride but near the track. To call a policy that aims to insure that at least two people have a front-row seat to any such event a "safety precaution" is ridiculous IMO. Nobody is safer for having witnessed that.

Oh right, of course, thank you for explaining. It does seem like a rule born out of paranoia, plus witness statements are notoriously unreliable. Hopefully it doesn't cause too many people problems anyway

+

The "no single rider" policy is a result of too much safety mesure and leads to non-sense in my opinion as well. I mean, it won't prevent any incident, and furthermore, when I'm riding, I don't babysit my co-rider but I'm focusing on my ride instead. (S)he can do things I won't see because, you know, I'm having fun.

Now, I do see if he gets sick or something like that - but incident like ejections (the reason why this policy exists IIRC) are just so sudden... Plus, they basically wants you to have the picture of your friend being thrown out to his death engraved in your head?

 

If they really want witnesses, they'd better invest into dashcams. Anyways, it's always more reliable than GP humans witnesses...

Well, I guess the next time you guys are a Manager of an Amusement Park and are first on the scene to see the body of a dead little boy who took a 2" wide Brake Fin to the Back of the Head, where it exploded, and the Mangled body of a 15 Year Old Girl, who were riding alone in the back row, you guys can tell me what you would do instead, but I doubt that's going to happen. You would also be surprised just how accurate Witnesses CAN be, as they have been very helpful in other smaller incidents. It's also EXTREMELY Simple, the Two Persons who ride in the Front Row can see the Track, and the Two Persons who ride in the Back Row can see the Entire Train. Also, keep in mind, Lagoon has THE Top Industry Safety Expert on Payroll.

[Dar]

Can't be that good a safety expert if a little boy took a brake fin to the back of the head in his park?

 

I can't think of anywhere else that has such an archaic policy, if it's that important then put up some cameras around the track and park instead of relying on guests, and impairing their enjoyment if they're on their own or if the rest of their party don't want to ride.

[RCF]

Can't be that good a safety expert if a little boy took a brake fin to the back of the head in his park?

 

I can't think of anywhere else that has such an archaic policy, if it's that important then put up some cameras around the track and park instead of relying on guests, and impairing their enjoyment if they're on their own or if the rest of their party don't want to ride.

Accidents happen everywhere. Remember all of the weird policies they put in place on NTAG after the person fell out? Also, people are acting like single riders aren't allowed on the rides at all. These two specific rows on only about half of the coasters doesn't impair enjoyment at the park. If they really care about riding the back or front of the ride, they can easily find another single rider or an odd numbered group to join on. Besides, it's only us coaster enthusiasts who are making this a big deal.

[linearinduction]

Can't be that good a safety expert if a little boy took a brake fin to the back of the head in his park?

 

I can't think of anywhere else that has such an archaic policy, if it's that important then put up some cameras around the track and park instead of relying on guests, and impairing their enjoyment if they're on their own or if the rest of their party don't want to ride.

Firstly, that seems extremely insensitive to pass off someone's life like it was meaningless with a wink. It's probably hard for you to understand when you have not heard the story first hand from the person who was first on scene and how 14 years later, it still felt like it happened yesterday for them. These incidents were Traumatic for Every Person in Operations and for the Owners of the Park. That year it became Lagoon's Goal for something like those incidents to NEVER happened again, within their power, and thus these SOPs were Implemented. While you may not understand the reasoning, because you've never worked with these people, it does not make their Policies "Stupid." You have no idea of the horrific trauma these employees, owners, guests, and families went through after these incidents. I also don't believe RC Fussner was on the Payroll in 1989, when these incidents happened.

 

Lagoon's Surveillance System is Extremely Impressive and Extensive, and is the Only Park where I've ever heard of Control Booths and Platforms wired with Microphones and Fiberoptic Cameras. This is an Older (2003) Article that will demonstrate just how Serious Lagoon is about Safety and what they did just with Surveillance after these Incidents. There aren't many parks that have Fiberoptic Cameras on Rides like the Rocket that can see 20 Miles Crystal Clear in All Directions. http://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/76361-safe-ride-1

[KarlaKoaster]

]Well, I guess the next time you guys are a Manager of an Amusement Park and are first on the scene to see the body of a dead little boy who took a 2" wide Brake Fin to the Back of the Head, where it exploded, and the Mangled body of a 15 Year Old Girl, who were riding alone in the back row, you guys can tell me what you would do instead, but I doubt that's going to happen. You would also be surprised just how accurate Witnesses CAN be, as they have been very helpful in other smaller incidents. It's also EXTREMELY Simple, the Two Persons who ride in the Front Row can see the Track, and the Two Persons who ride in the Back Row can see the Entire Train. Also, keep in mind, Lagoon has THE Top Industry Safety Expert on Payroll.

Yeah, that's fair enough, I can't argue with that. It struck me as bit of a bizarre rule but honestly I don't have very strong opinions on it, and like I said, hopefully it doesn't cause too many people problems anyway.

[Jetstar2]

Can't be that good a safety expert if...

It should be noted that the events linearinduction mentions both took place 26 years ago. At that time, the person I assume he's talking about was working for Arrow Dynamics.

 

Is there any reason for their ridiculous single rider policy?

 

Yes, you are, but they wouldn't want to spell it out for you. It's in case the train hits a person who is not on the ride but near the track. To call a policy that aims to insure that at least two people have a front-row seat to any such event a "safety precaution" is ridiculous IMO. Nobody is safer for having witnessed that.

 

Well, I guess the next time you guys are a Manager of an Amusement Park and are first on the scene to see the body of a dead little boy who took a 2" wide Brake Fin to the Back of the Head, where it exploded, and the Mangled body of a 15 Year Old Girl, who were riding alone in the back row, you guys can tell me what you would do instead, but I doubt that's going to happen. You would also be surprised just how accurate Witnesses CAN be, as they have been very helpful in other smaller incidents. It's also EXTREMELY Simple, the Two Persons who ride in the Front Row can see the Track, and the Two Persons who ride in the Back Row can see the Entire Train. Also, keep in mind, Lagoon has THE Top Industry Safety Expert on Payroll.

 

Those people were both single riders who fell from the back seat. I can see the logic in requiring 2 riders in the back seat based on those events and calling it a safety precaution. As I just said, the policy of requiring two in the front seat only seeks to provide witnesses in the very unfortunate event that it happens again.

 

If THE top safety expert in the country doesn't understand the difference between actual safety precautions and issues of litigation, then I am very concerned.

 

Besides, it's only us coaster enthusiasts who are making this a big deal.

 

From my view, there was no big deal made here until the topic of children's heads exploding was raised. People who aren't familiar with the park were asking for clarification, and I was providing it. I don't care about the policy itself at all. I just think that calling something a safety precaution that doesn't aim to actually make anybody safer in any way builds distrust, as lies often do.

[KingRCT3]

to see the body of a dead little boy who took a 2" wide Brake Fin to the Back of the Head, where it exploded, and the Mangled body of a 15 Year Old Girl

 

I still don't understand the logic... Does Lagoon actually want us to witness that? ("Please keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle, and watchout for decapitated bodies"?) We agree it would have happened either way, right?

 

If I'm a park manager and I do witness that once, I make sure that afterward my ride is safer than ever (thing that I DON'T DOUBT Lagoon is doing), not that I have a witness for the insurance.

[linearinduction]

Can't be that good a safety expert if...

It should be noted that the events linearinduction mentions both took place 26 years ago. At that time, the person I assume he's talking about was working for Arrow Dynamics.

 

Is there any reason for their ridiculous single rider policy?

 

Yes, you are, but they wouldn't want to spell it out for you. It's in case the train hits a person who is not on the ride but near the track. To call a policy that aims to insure that at least two people have a front-row seat to any such event a "safety precaution" is ridiculous IMO. Nobody is safer for having witnessed that.

 

Well, I guess the next time you guys are a Manager of an Amusement Park and are first on the scene to see the body of a dead little boy who took a 2" wide Brake Fin to the Back of the Head, where it exploded, and the Mangled body of a 15 Year Old Girl, who were riding alone in the back row, you guys can tell me what you would do instead, but I doubt that's going to happen. You would also be surprised just how accurate Witnesses CAN be, as they have been very helpful in other smaller incidents. It's also EXTREMELY Simple, the Two Persons who ride in the Front Row can see the Track, and the Two Persons who ride in the Back Row can see the Entire Train. Also, keep in mind, Lagoon has THE Top Industry Safety Expert on Payroll.

 

Those people were both single riders who fell from the back seat. I can see the logic in requiring 2 riders in the back seat based on those events and calling it a safety precaution. As I just said, the policy of requiring two in the front seat only seeks to provide witnesses in the very unfortunate event that it happens again.

 

If THE top safety expert in the country doesn't understand the difference between actual safety precautions and issues of litigation, then I am very concerned.

 

Besides, it's only us coaster enthusiasts who are making this a big deal.

 

From my view, there was no big deal made here until the topic of children's heads exploding was raised. People who aren't familiar with the park were asking for clarification, and I was providing it. I don't care about the policy itself at all. I just think that calling something a safety precaution that doesn't aim to actually make anybody safer in any way builds distrust, as lies often do.

I wasn't referring to Dal Freeman, a Ride Designer and Engineer, but R.C. Fussner, of R.C. Fussner and Associates. After the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad Accident at Disneyland in 2003, both RC and Dal were on a Plane within hours, both at the Request of Disney.

 

The Single Rider Policy is totally about Witnesses. I apologize if I wasn't clear in that area. Both Riders, who Tragically Died, were riding alone in the Back Seat and Both Incidents happened within Weeks of Each Other. Still to this day, it is unknown if the 15 year old girl on Roller Coaster Stood Up Intentionally and Fell Out, Stood Up Intentionally to Fall Out (Suicide), Somehow Fell Out, or the Safety Bar Failed. The Safety Bar was Locked in Place when the Train Came Back to the Station, but if there was a Rider Next to Her, they may have had an Idea as to if she appeared to Stand Up, Fell Out, or the Safety Bar Failed and Opened. Thanks to Guests in Line for Puff (Eye Witnesses), it is known the Little Boy who was Riding alone in the Back Seat wiggled out of the Lapbar and Seatbelt. Would a Responsible Person Riding next to the Little Boy have stopped him from wiggling out? Probably. Puff's Lapbars were Modified after the Incident and Roller Coaster received a Seat Divider and Individual Spring Loaded Ratcheting Lapbars.

Edited June 1, 2015 by linearinduction

[RCF]

Besides, it's only us coaster enthusiasts who are making this a big deal.

 

From my view, there was no big deal made here until the topic of children's heads exploding was raised. People who aren't familiar with the park were asking for clarification, and I was providing it. I don't care about the policy itself at all. I just think that calling something a safety precaution that doesn't aim to actually make anybody safer in any way builds distrust, as lies often do.

This isn't a lie. They do have it in place as a safety precaution for simple reasons that linearinduction has stated. They wouldn't have created this policy if they felt it wasn't necessary. It's in place, they have it there for their tragic reasons, and it isn't in any way a real disservice to anyone. Single riders are definately still able to ride all of the rides in other rows, except for Jet Star 2.

 

I believe Jet Star 2's case is a manufacturer policy, or in the case that one seat can't physically keep only one rider safe in any situation for the ride. They did a few summers ago have a no single rider policy on Spider as well, but has since been removed. Again, it was set in place for the same reason as all other single rider policies at Lagoon. Another SC-2000 model had an accident where a single rider fell from the ride. All of these policies make sense from a safety point with the accidents that have occurred.

[neil009]

Having a witness helps for litigation purposes but it also works towards preventing incidents from happening again in the future. I.E. also a safety precaution.

 

Although, funny story, just yesterday on Lightning Run at KK while sitting on the break run, the kid sitting directly in front of me no longer had his shirt on. He'd taken it off at some point in the middle of the ride, and I hadn't even noticed. He literally could've sprouted wings and flown out of the train and I wouldn't have seen it. Hope they never need me for a witness...

[KingRCT3]

but it also works towards preventing incidents from happening again in the future. I.E. also a safety precaution.

 

So why not in every row then..?

[Jetstar2]

Roller Coaster received a Seat Divider and Individual Spring Loaded Ratcheting Lapbars.

 

While I don't care about the single rider policy, I care about this. I don't fault the park, they haven't been misleading about it, and I know they have their reasons. It still sucks.

[RCF]

but it also works towards preventing incidents from happening again in the future. I.E. also a safety precaution.

 

So why not in every row then..?

Because in the last row, noone would be able to see you fall out. First row, not sure. It's either to see the track ahead, or because there's nothing in front to stop you from falling forward? Definately not sure of the first row. In the middle rows people can see you in trouble, and maybe help or have witness to you falling out...

 

It definately is morbid however to think about what ifs to people dieing and how to make sure it is safer for people, or even worse, for insurance and liability.

[linearinduction]

Roller Coaster received a Seat Divider and Individual Spring Loaded Ratcheting Lapbars.

 

While I don't care about the single rider policy, I care about this. I don't fault the park, they haven't been misleading about it, and I know they have their reasons. It still sucks.

It does suck for Single Riders, but knowing the who, why, and what sure makes a difference. It's so strange to go to other parks and see Single Riders in the Front and Back Rows and that is a Constant Reminder to me to watch out for my safety.

[Comeagain?]

Because a single rider is in more danger than two people together? If they're out of their restraints the person sitting next to them isn't stopping them from leaving the car. You can't say that the ride is safer because of it, only that the park has a slight chance of reacting differently should the event happen again. It's reactionary not precautionary.

[Jetstar2]

It does suck for Single Rider

 

No, I mean that Roller Coaster's "new" lapbars suck compared to the old ones. I know it's been a long time, but I still remember how disappointed I was when they changed them. The stupid boxy divider and the stupid part of the lapbar that doesn't fit the 90 degree profile of the rest of the bar suck. That's how I felt about it when I was 12, so that's probably how I will always feel.

[pǝʇɹǝʌuı]

I think linearinduction explained really well why the policy is in place. I honestly can't see how you could argue with him or the policy.

 

So...Cannibal!

 

Sorry (not sorry) for the subject change. It's funny to hear that rumors are going around the GP about dummies falling out. Lagoon's definitely going to lose some marketing power because of that. That's what you get when you take too long to open your giant new ride that everyone knows about despite (for the most part) a lack of marketing.

[VegasBaby]

I think linearinduction explained really well why the policy is in place. I honestly can't see how you could argue with him or the policy.

 

So...Cannibal!

 

Sorry (not sorry) for the subject change. It's funny to hear that rumors are going around the GP about dummies falling out. Lagoon's definitely going to lose some marketing power because of that. That's what you get when you take too long to open your giant new ride that everyone knows about despite (for the most part) a lack of marketing.

 

Yes, I find it very odd that they still haven't released an opening date for this ride, especially since they've been testing it for months now. The park's silence is just fueling all the crazy rumors and speculation. Do they not have a PR department?

[Jetstar2]

Well the park has a marketing department. I'm not sure that the park is concerned with public relations beyond that. They never say anything about anything aside from offering discounts/specials and whatnot. I guess they're somewhat improving on it this year as they are now saying things on facebook from time to time.

 

I'm guessing that they won't announce the opening date until just before to prevent people from postponing any plans to come earlier. I thought they might have announced on Monday that it would open Friday as the park wouldn't be open to the public between then, but they actually announced that the park would be open to the public Wednesday unscheduled. So just maybe they'll announce Thursday that it will open Friday.