MagicMountain all year pass for $49?!

[SpectralN]

Before the obvious negative posts regarding SixFlags and Magic Mountain begin please hear me out.

 

Magic mountain has one of the largest selections of coasters in the world.

There are a number of record breaking and unique coasters at the park.

Many of the rides are kick butt!

 

Now why on earth would magic mountain sell a season pass with coupons and no blockout dates for $49 DOLLARS?!

 

Reasons why this doesn't make sense to me:

Reason 1: you are undervaluing your offerings, (basically saying the park is worth only $49 for a whole year of use)

 

Reason 2: You are becoming an even cheaper daycare center than disneyland upsetting the paying customers.

 

Reason 3: the day care users are not even paying the $10 to park because they are taking the bus in or being dropped off by the carpool!

 

Reason 4: If you dont make any money from the thousands of elementary school and high school kids who live in Valencia with nothing else to do but go to magic mountain and hang out, you are

 

A: not going to have any more money to pay decent wages,

B: have money to upgrade the facilities and upkeep the painting etc.

C: you are just going to alienate the general paying public more than you already have!

 

Reason 5: OK lets see thousands of people spending just $49 a year once and frequenting the park at least every saturday makes ZERO cents from any angle! What the is SixFlags thinking?

 

It is one thing to charge a premium rate for a season pass which makes sense and keeps people from just plopping down a one days admission for all years day care maddness.

 

Why would Magic Mountain do this?

 

Perhaps they just figure that most the general public will pay $49 dollars to get the season pass and be so pissed off by the end of the day they will never come back again (but what does that accomplish by just now alienating a customer and we all know in the buisness world that one bad customer will spread the word to over 10 people further hurting your buisness) this is just exactly what magic mountain DOES NOT NEED.

 

Please someone chime in on this and try and help me see the logic in this!

 

ADMIN EDIT: While you make really good points, there isn't any need to blatantly bash the park to make them.

Edited November 18, 2005 by SpectralN

[robbalvey]

It's not stupid at all.

 

Have you ever worked at a park or a movie theater?

 

If so, then you'll know that the most money to be made is on concessions. I don't know about anyone else, but when was the last time you saw one of the food counters NOT busy around lunch time?

 

You could let people in for free and you'd still make money off food, drink, games, parking and merchandise sales.

 

But even having said that, take a trip out to the park tomorrow morning around 9:30 or so and see how many people are at the ticket booths lined up to buy a one-day ticket.

 

Let me remind you all once again about the crowd that was there last Saturday:

 

And NONE of those people are in the Season pass line! Even if every person there was with a group, the group rate is still about $22 per head and I'll bet that most of those people will spend at least $5 each on food, drinks, or games. While it might seem like the park sells a lot of season passes, which they do, it's still a fraction of the people that come in every day with a one-day ticket.

 

--Robb "And THAT is why is all makes sense!" Alvey

[SpectralN]

Robb,

Thanks for the reply. You forget about the buy once 8 dollar sovenier mug that you can bring back all year for over 40oz for a 99 cent refill.

Ok so lets review,

$49 all year entry

$8 souvenier mug

=$57 one time fee per person per year.

Day use (drop off carpool lane = No $10 parking fee)

99 Cents for 40oz of coke.

Ok so Magic mountain will make about lets just say 5 dollars per season pass holder per use minumum. (many guests both season pass and general public catch a ride out, walk out or bus out, to In-Out or Mcdonalds to eat rather then spend lots of money for crappier than even mcdonalds food)

 

So what are the downsides for the company-

More buy one day enter all year users filling up cues causing the big buck spenders to be stuck for longer in cues which are already too long which equals no big spenders at the concessions stands while they are stuck on DejaVu's 2 hour cue or X's 4 hour cue or Riddlers 3 hour cue or Goliaths 2 hour cue.

Magic mountain is not a movie theatre, I hear your point But the movie theatres don't offer a season pass just to get people through the gates and to the concession stands because there are lots of other costs.

 

For Magic mountain the overhead is so huge for Maintenance, Employee wages, POWER and Utilities!, INSURANCE (Insurance alone must be in the tens of millions a year) I just do not see MM's logic, they would have to sell a ton of churos and colas to compensate all this and how can you sell when people are stuck in lines that do not move? It would seem to me that you would want more paying customers paying full price, spending lots of money and enjoying themselves and coming back again because they had such a great time and the lines actually moved then having , day care users, riff raff, gangsters, ruining the vibes and clogging up the cues for everyone else. Causing the day users to vow never to come back again and spread the negative word. As much as I love the attractions at magic mountain, at this point I would NOT bring my family there, it does not have a safe family feeling, with the gangsters and lots of fights breaking out, the cursing the lack of respect for anyone else around.

Its so bad they have to have airport metal detectors at the gate!

 

I just do not see how $49 dollar all year passes can help this company in anyway. No matter how many sodas they sell. It cannot cover the losses the company sustains on a number of levels.

Edited November 18, 2005 by SpectralN

[Wes]

AND STAY OFF MY DAMN LAWN!!!

[robbalvey]

You forget about the buy once 8 dollar sovenier mug that you can bring back all year for over 40oz for a 99 cent refill.

Ok so lets review,

$49 all year entry

$8 souvenier mug

=$57 one time fee per person per year.

You're also making the assumption that most people who come through the gate are season pass holders. I think you'l be quite surprised to find out that really isn't the case. Like I said, just take a trip down to the park between 9:30 and 11am on any given weekend or summer day and count how many people are buying one day tickets versus how many people are in the season pass processing line. Just do the math.

 

Day use (drop off carpool lane = No $10 parking fee)

Given that they seem to be filling the parking lot almost to capacity even on weekends in the off-season, I don't think the small percentage of people dropping kids off is a huge issue.

 

99 Cents for 40oz of coke.

Ok so Magic mountain will make about lets just say 5 dollars per season pass holder per use minumum.

Again, you're making an assumption that every season pass holder does this. We're season pass holders and we have NEVER bought one of those drinks. And I assure you we've spent a decent amount of money buying drinks at the park. If they weren't making money off them, they wouldn't be selling them. And man, the profit margin on those thousands of $8 mugs and 99 cent sodas they sell every day is GREAT! I challenge you to find even a fraction of people coming into the park every day who actually bring one back. And remember in order to get just one 99 cent refill you have to spend $10 total! I only wish we could make that kind of money off our DVDs!

 

Magic mountain is not a movie theatre, I hear your point But the movie theatres don't offer a season pass just to get people through the gates and to the concession stands because there are lots of other costs.

Movies also don't cost $49.99 per person each visit.

 

For Magic mountain the overhead is so huge for Maintenance, Employee wages, POWER and Utilities!, INSURANCE (Insurance alone must be in the tens of millions a year) I just do not see MM's logic, they would have to sell a ton of churos and colas to compensate all this and how can you sell when people are stuck in lines that do not move?

Do you have ANYTHING at all to back that up? P&L reports, park budgets, finance information...ANYTHING? Otherwise, honestly, I kind of thing your argument is pointless.

 

All I have seen is that Six Flags has turned a profit the last couple of quarters in a row. So whatever they are (finally) doing, regardless of the quality issues people may have, they are apparently making money at it.

 

--Robb "Sorry, I just kind of see this entire thread totally pointless without anything to back it up." Alvey

Edited November 18, 2005 by robbalvey

[SpectralN]

Perhaps I come of too strong via the text world trying to convey my thoughts to others. I love Magic Mountain, I am not trying to "bash the park" I support the park with thousands of my dollars each year.

As a park supporter who is concerned with the financial well being of the park and employees, it does not make too much sense to undervaluate your offerings and at the same time alienate the casual full paying guest who is only going to leave with a bad taste in there mouth if they have a less than satisfactory experience at the park (and lets be frank and honest it happens quite often on many levels at MM) Get people to come back to the park by making it fun and keeping them excited, not by practically giving away admission. But I guess as far as I can remember they have done this with the $10 coke can admissions, but never at this level of the all year passes.

It is an amusement park buisness not a FastFood stand, (running a fast food stand would be much cheaper and easier)

 

P.S. Robb: your little post critiques are great I feel like I am being graded on each post, which frankely I am failing at apparantly

[robbalvey]

^ They aren't critiques, they are responses to your points!

 

It is an amusement park buisness not a FastFood stand, (running a fast food stand would be much cheaper and easier)

 

Are you sure? Think about it, a busy day at SFMM is probably thirty to fourty thousand people....in a DAY. Do you think your average McDonalds sees thrity to fourty thousand customers a day?

 

I work in the entertainment business where I deal with similar retail issues that I'm sure SFMM does. While I have no information either on their park finances, I can speak from my experiences, which also include working in retail at a theme park for 5 years of my life.

 

I actually think you'll find that if someone did a financial breakdown of the amount of money spent on overhead and park assets at the Disneyland Resort versus Six Flags Magic Mountain, the pass at Magic Mountain would be far more profitable at a fraction of the price!

 

Look, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, I do think they could charge more for passes, and agree that they should. I just don't think some of your points about them not making money are correct.

 

--Robb

Edited November 18, 2005 by robbalvey

[Joe21498]

I agree that the 49 dollar rate is way to low. If you have a park that provides a enjoyable experience to visitors you can charge more than 49 bucks for a season of fun. Like I have said in the past Cedar Fair parks season passes are twice the amount or more of most Six Flags parks. Even with these higher prices people still buy these passes. I myself don't think twice when it comes to renewing my Cedar Point pass because I know that the experience for the season to come will be worth the money i'm paying.

 

I don't believe the above statement would hold true at SFMM. If season passes were 100 bucks or more at MM less people would buy them and then multiple visits to the park would be less likley. The price is low because the general public doesn't feel the park is worth 100 bucks to visit all year. In my opinion the general public is correct. The park doesn't provide the entertainment and services that justify that kind of pricing.

 

If the park had a better staff, services, and managment maybe this story would be different. When I have visited MM I have found it to basically be a nightmare.

 

First off you have to deal with the strip search at the gate. Also if didn't have a season pass you would have to buy a ticket and I can only imagine how fun that experience could be. Then you have to stand jammed in that box like entry area until the park opens an hour later.

 

When the gates finally open you run to a ride that is either closed for no reason or still hasn't been even tested for the day. The last time I was there we ran to X only to wait an hour while they ran morning tests that they started after the gates to the park where open for the day.

 

These types of experiences continue throughout the day normally. Things like rediculously slow dispatch times and the use of one train operation on a ride with a massive line are all standard procedure at SFMM. Basically by the end of the day you are angry and frustrated. This is a feeling I have not experienced at most of the other 26 parks I have ever been to in my life.

 

Maybe if the park improved some of these issues then they could actually charge a normal season pass rate. The problems at this park are massive and require time and proper managment to repair. Will they ever get fixed, who knows. but it sure would be nice if they at least tried.

[robbalvey]

^ I totally agree with almost all of that. But I will say that what you described are problems we experienced at many other parks this year, too. Not just SFMM.

 

Look, I'm not saying Spectra wrong by any means about the amount they charge, I do think they could charge more for passes, and agree that they should. I just don't think some of your points about them not making money are correct.

 

--Robb

[SpectralN]

Joe,

I guess your right. To the publics eye the park is not worth over $49 for a whole years admission.

Sad but true I guess.

Perhaps if things turn around the company will believe they are worth more than a $15 dollar entry with a coke can or a $49 all year entry pass to every single Six Flag theme park!

Just seems like if you are a company you do not want to admit that you are worth so little.

[SpectralN]

Robb,

I respect your opinions as I know you respect mine even though we may disagree about this or that. Perhaps I was being to harsh on the $49 play pass holders and should be dishing out equal text regarding the $22 dollar general admission coupon or cola can holders I just think if you as a company or buisiness see youself as worth so little the customer will see you as worthless as well. Sorta like if someone with zero self confidence is trying the dating scene out, they are not likely to attract a positive mate with the projection of zero confidence.

I think MM needs to get there act together and say, we are the Shi* our park is awesome and its worth $49 for a day entry and $100 dollars for a restricted season pass. I think if they really worked on getting there act together and paying there employees better and having a better overall vibe buisness wise and customer service wise it will help the Park and the company in many ways! Which for us meens more money for capital invesments and park improvements ( like perhaps getting a new tram with some shocks or something!)

Edited November 18, 2005 by SpectralN

[Joe21498]

^ I also agree Robb, MM is not the only place this happens. I have had similar experiences at SFA, Paramount Kings Dominion, and some other parks.

 

No park is perfect, that's for sure. Some parks do seem to be better than other though in overall experience. For example I can't say i've ever had a bad experience at Hersheypark, Dorney, or Mt. Olympus. Even when these places get packed (Mt. Olympus never seems to be busy) they seem to be able to handle it. This isn't true for some parks, when they get packed they jsut can't handle it.

 

In the end though the general public is still satisfied at any of these parks. They are not enthusiasts of the industry. Also the general public doesn't usually visit multiple parks witin the same operating season or maybe even ever. Most of the general public has a home park that they attend annually. If they never go anywhere besides this park then they obviously don't know that the "grass may be greener on the other side."

[CoasterFanatic]

While I think that the season pass price is too low, it is actually pretty easy to cut down on the "Baby sitting" thing without even changing the price.

 

Just do like Lake Winnie and Kennywood and require guests under 18 to have an adult with them.

 

Problem solved.

[Meteornotes]

^I believe there's a law in CA that would prevent that. Back when I lived in LA, the AMC theater chain started a program that would not allow anyone under 13 into an R rated movie, whether or not a parent was present. This was done to stop idiot parents from bringing toddlers to things like "Pulp Fiction" so they wouldn't have to pay a babysitter. But there was a lawsuit (surprise!) and it was tossed out because of some existing CA discimination law. I'm sure if SFMM tried to limit visitors based on age, it would face the same sort of legal action in about three seconds.

 

I think that SF season passes in general are underpriced, but if the park is packed every weekend (and Robb would certainly be in a position to observe this), I guess they're doing something right. Most US parks have problems, Mt. Olympus included. I saw some slow-ass operations when I was there this summer, including the WORST ride operator I have ever witnessed at any park on Pegasus. I didn't think it was possible for an actual living human being to move that slow, but I was wrong. That park in general needs some staffing updates and training, as I witnessed a lot of strange stuff when I was there. If they want to move into the "big time" as they seem to, they're really going to need to upgrade their customer service.

 

Then again, so will Six Flags, if they want to use that "Clean, Safe, Fun" motto that's been tossed around, but that's another story...

 

dt

[robbalvey]

Again, I just wanted to make it clear that my points were NOT in disagreement that the park is under-charging for the pass, they were saying that I don't think the financial accusations were correct.

 

I just wanted to point that out because it seemed like SpectralN was making two points:

 

1. The pass is too cheap.

2. The park makes little or no money from people who buy them.

 

I was commenting mostly on point #2.

 

--Robb

[BarryH]

My SFOG season pass was $49 and the park looks really nice. You can also get a SFOG one day ticket at AAA for $24.75. Now that is a good deal! The one day ticket also comes with coupons for food and games. So in the end, SFOG makes $ off the discounted tickets. The average guest will probably see the tickets and say, "I get $1 off a carnival game!" and they will probably play it. SFOG makes some $. With my season pass, I still have to pay for parking at every Six Flags park I visit. Park averages about $10 per park. I don't think parking on a piece of pavement costs the park $10, so they make money off that. You got to eat too, so you can eat the Six Flags slop and they make $ off that.

 

In the end, unless you don't eat, drink, play anything, or pay for parking, Six Flags will make $ somehow in the end. They may not make lots of money like they do on a full priced one day ticket, but $1 is better than no dollars.

[Homey G.]

I also think that's it's extremely difficult for us to be objective about things like prices for season passes.

 

Part of being a seasoned park goer is feeling like parks are giving away the gate and wishing they'd charge more because we feel like it will improve our park experience if there were less people there (read : less people in front of us in line, and less morons walking 1 mph in the middle of the midway 15 abreast).

 

While everyone would prefer to have shorter lines for rides, but I don't know anyone who has offered to pay more when it came time to pony up for season passes.

 

At the end of the day, people who crunch numbers determine prices for the parks. It's their livelihood on the lines to make money and I'm sure they have access to the figures to correctly determine what to charge.

 

Meanwhile, while we're scorching in a 2 hour line for a coaster running one train is when we truly notice how many people are in the park. Amazing how a good day at a park can take your mind off things like admission, whether daily or season passes.

 

I never notice tons of people getting "dropped off" at parks on my way in, or anything else that would potentially piss me off before I even get in the park.

 

Keep pumping your thousands of dollars a year into SFMM, and things'll get better! 8)

 

Brian, who's sorry for his "stream of consciousness" style post.

[F1shy]

By all year pass... you mean season pass... right?

 

You can use your season pass at ANY Six Flags theme park...

 

Last time I went to California... I used my Six Flags Over Georgia Season Pass to enter SFMM for free.

[Blazen_AZN]

you know, i was thinking the same thing when i heard about the play pass, but i thought about it and it all made sense.

 

Like Robb said, a lot of your money comes from concessions, souvenirs, etc. When you think about it, no matter how crowded your park gets, it will still cost the same to operate, (the only difference i could think of is that you have to keep your rides open longer after closing, but I'm sure they would just close the line if it gets too big, like X.) so really, the more people you get into your park, the better.

 

Another thing, people with season passes bring in more customers, they bring company that don't have passes, that pay admission. And they are likely to come more often when someone has a pass.

 

 

They have obviously found that it works or they will not have done it, heck, just yesterday Universal Studios Hollywood sent me a free season pass, a free ticket, 6 15$ off admission coupons, and 6 buy a day get a year free coupons, and i have never even been there!

[Bob O]

Unless we have access to the financial records of SFMM we wont be able to determine if this has a positive or negative effect on the bottom line, but since the company is billions in debt they have shown they dont know how to operate there business in a profitable manner and a few quarters that they make a little money doesnt constitute a recovery. It would be nice too see a breakdown to see how much profit each individual park actually made this year.

But what other major park chains give away there gate so cheaply?? And while this will bring in larger crowds it does little to make the guest experience any better if the park is so busy that you have to wait hours for most rides. I dont know SFMM that well, but when i visit my local SF park i spend little money beyond the season pass admission. I eat outside the park most of the time because the food is medicore at best and bring in my own water/munchies due to the overpricing of items in the park. The souvenirs are also not that good, so money i want to spend on them goes unspent because i find little to buy.

This affects the bottom line and when you talk to other people(escpecially familie) at the park who do likewise and then see the mass exodus of people at lunch time leaving to eat elsewhere you realize the park loses alot of money that could otherwise be made by not giving away the store at the gate but try to make up for it by overcharging for food/soda etc.

[robbalvey]

But what other major park chains give away there gate so cheaply??

Universal and Busch do. And more specifically, USH, BGT, BGW, and all the Sea World parks. They all have a "Buy a day get a year free" option. As do most of the other Six Flags parks. Even USF/IOA's Season Pass renewal fee is only about $20 more than a one day park hopper.

 

That right there tells me that it's NOT the gate price which is the reason Six Flags is terribly in debt, it's something else.

 

Also, I just wanted to point out that I'm well aware of the companies debt and I know that a couple quarters don't make everything better. I should have mentioned earlier than I think they have bigger financial issues to deal with. I'm also making the assumption that whatever they have been doing the last couple of quarters is helping them tighten up their finances.

 

--Robb

[Nrthwnd]

Altho it's not exactly the same price range, DisneylandParis has been doing a 'deal' with a one-day pass being elegible towards an annual pass there. For a few years now, too

 

And you can apply it either before you enter the park, or while you are inside it.

 

[Bubba Z]

SFI is like McDonald's. SFI can give away the gate the same way McDonald's gives away burgers. They only care if you buy Fries and Soda once your inside because fries and soda are 95% profit.

 

Kids are both very important too at both places. Where at SFI Kids spend a lot of money on those basketballs, stuffed animals and arcade games. At McDonald's, happy meals make up 44% of there profit.

 

So the season pass price is kind of like the dollar menu. Just get them in the door.

 

anyway here at SFgadv the season pass is $75 dollars. $30 for parking pass and $115 for the three park combo, so they are making some money on passes here.

[lapseofreason]

They have obviously found that it works or they will not have done it, heck, just yesterday Universal Studios Hollywood sent me a free season pass, a free ticket, 6 15$ off admission coupons, and 6 buy a day get a year free coupons, and i have never even been there!

 

Yeah, my husband just got (sort of) the same thing in the mail! One free one-day admission And/OR season pass; $15 off a one-day pass if you buy a full admission; and one free annual pass if you buy a one day admission

 

And we have never been there either!!! (Well, I worked there for about a month and a half, but that doesn't count)

 

Isn't it amazing what parks do to get you to visit? LOL! XD

 

 

-amanda

[maliboomer]

I don't get it. They arn't going to sell them for $49 or whatev if they don't make any money.... common sense.