Mitch Hawker 2011 Wood Coaster Poll!

[InkblotKat]

Definitely a winner X3

[ginzo]

And most of it is floater air, rather than real ejector air (or somewhere in between.)

 

Eh? Has anyone else here had this experience? When I rode it, it was an ejector air coaster. Almost all the hills on all the cycles I rode it were extremely powerful ejector air. And it was like that from the very first rides of the morning ERT on through the day to the evening ERT. The afternoon rides were especially insane. It's just about the most powerful airtime that I know of.

 

If Balder was a floater air coaster, I wouldn't have it at #1.

[GeorgeT]

And most of it is floater air, rather than real ejector air (or somewhere in between.)

 

Wow...that`s really interesting !

 

If you take a look from 2:25 on...it`s undeniable that Balder is FULL on ejector air !!!

 

 

I think that really is enough proof

[cfc]

^"Floating" is not the word I'd use to describe Balder, either--but other's mileage may vary.

[robbalvey]

One of my favorites

 

Rolling Thunder SFGAd NJ y n 126

Grt Am Scrm Mach SFoG GA y n 127

Mean Streak Cedar Point OH y n 128

El Toro SFGAd NJ y n 129

 

Yes, Rolling Thunder is better than El Toro. Right. Sorry, but if you don't want to recognize El Toro as a wood coaster, then just leave it off your ballot.

Oh, this guy! Yeah, I know this guy. He's your stereotypical ACE member who is too fat to fit on El Toro now so instead of doing something about it, he takes it out on the ride. I remember seeing a conversation about it where he blames Intamin for not being able to squeeze his ginormous ass into the train.

 

My take on this....

 

HEY FATASS!!! PUT THE TURKEY LEG DOWN AND HIT THE GYM!!!!!

 

I'm no small person myself, but I wouldn't blame a coaster if I don't fit...I blame myself...stupid f**king people...

 

'Nuff Said.

 

--Robb "That's two ACE members with stupid ballots now..." Alvey

Edited January 29, 2012 by robbalvey

[A.J.]

Out of curiosity, how many of these ballots are "faked", as in putting down a coaster for a high or low rank even though you've never ridden it?

[Gutterflower]

I do wonder. I remember a few years ago when Mitch noticed there were several ballots in the steel poll rating Superman: ROS (bizzaro now) as #1 but EGF as bottom. It's just stupid, I've not ridden either but Its obvious if you like one you will probably at least like the other one.

[robbalvey]

I do wonder. I remember a few years ago when Mitch noticed there were several ballots in the steel poll rating Superman: ROS (bizzaro now) as #1 but EGF as bottom. It's just stupid, I've not ridden either but Its obvious if you like one you will probably at least like the other one.

There were a few people who did this. One of them was a even a TPR member who has since been banned. Mitch saw what was going on and threw out all those ballots. He's not stupid. I know the guy does keep an eye out for certain things, and if all of a sudden he got a bunch of ballots where Voyage was dead last or El Toro was dead last, he'll call shenanigans. He's been doing this for 18 years. He's seen it all and he knows what to look for.

 

But as you can see from the ballots, it doesn't happen that often, and it's kind of sad to see that the ballots that DO have this happen, are from enthusiasts that are somewhat well known, and clearly have a personal agenda.

 

Like Skycoastin' Steve said, I refuse to believe that anyone really hates either of those two coasters enough to put them dead last. I flat out do not believe it, and those people have a personal agenda, and they know damn well they do.

 

I have zero respect for those people, but fortunately for Mitch's system, a few ballots here or there like that, don't affect the poll results. That's why we support this poll and that's why I feel it's the best!

 

--Robb "I encourage as many people as possible to participate!" Alvey

Edited January 29, 2012 by robbalvey

[australianalex]

Since I've only been on 2 woodies and neither were very good I didn't participate in the wooden coaster poll. But I'll definately submit my votes for the steel poll, gunna get out and ride the few Aussie coasters I have left to ride and then submit.

[Jim]

I'm normally a lurker here but wanted to add my 2 cents just because coaster polls interest me. I know polls will never be perfect but it's cool to see what other opinions are versus your own. I have a decent record of over 100 wood coasters. My top 10 are:

Voyage

El Toro

Boulder Dash

Phoenix

Ravine Flyer 2

Prowler

Cyclops

Hell Cat-Timber Falls

Tremors

Comet

The one thing I don't like about polls is Voyage is my #1 but in all fairness I last rode it in June 2006 when it was new. I rode it about 7 times that day and it was amazing. We are waiting for my youngest son to hit 48" before we go back (next year). I've read for years how rough it has gotten and would probably feel the same as most others however I can only judge it on my own experience. I only got to ride El Toro once on a quick trip during spring break a few years ago and the ride was down all day until about 2 hours before closing. We were all cold and just jumped in the shortest middle seat line so we could leave. I absolutely loved it however I wonder how much better it would have been in the front or back seat with shorts and tee shirt instead of a coat and jeans. I probably have Cyclops ranked higher than most people because on our trip there years ago the park was empty and we kept getting back seat rides and every ride was out of control feeling and than you hit that crazy drop that scared the crap out of us (in a good way). We loved it but don't know how it has changed.

[larrygator]

The one thing I don't like about polls is Voyage is my #1 but in all fairness I last rode it in June 2006 when it was new. I rode it about 7 times that day and it was amazing. We are waiting for my youngest son to hit 48" before we go back (next year). I've read for years how rough it has gotten and would probably feel the same as most others however I can only judge it on my own experience.

 

That's a great point. I'm in the same boat. I rode at Holiwood Nights dozens of times in 2006 and loved it, it was my #2 for a couple of years.

 

However, Just like the MVP award in baseball, voting criteria is up to the voter.

 

Do you rank based on the best ride you ever had on the coaster?

Do you rank based on a typical ride?

Do you lower your ranking because the general enthusiast community complains about a coaster deteriorating?

Do you lower your ranking because people you respect and have similiar opinions have told you how rough a certain coaster has gotten?

[MrSum1_55]

When I have a toss up for voting (did not submit a ballot this year, but almost did), I simply imagine the two coasters right in front of me, with no wait, and I pick which one I would rather ride. This works well for rides you do not ride often. However, if you are comparing a coaster you have ridden 15+ times to one you have ridden 1-2 times, a problem may occur in this situation.

 

I have no idea how anyone could claim that they could stand equal distance apart from El Toro and Rolling Thunder, with no line for either of them, and yet choose the rotting POS with only bunny hills that provide little airtime.

 

Sometimes, wood coaster purists are even more annoying than the GP.

[niiicolaaah]

FWIW, I rank my coasters based on my last ride on them. That way, my opinion is on how they currently run or most recently run. Just my $.02

[BaMiTsPaT]

When I have a toss up for voting (did not submit a ballot this year, but almost did), I simply imagine the two coasters right in front of me, with no wait, and I pick which one I would rather ride. This works well for rides you do not ride often.

 

I also use this system for close coasters. It seems like a sensible idea, but like you said, I have ridden certain coasters to death, and there are some that i'd love to ride again. This is the only problem I see with this system.

[downunder]

I just rate them on the best ride(s) that I had from my last visit. For instance, I rate Hades very highly because on my last visit to MtO I had some sensational night rides - even though I hear it's just plain hell to ride now, I can only base it on my last visit in 2007.

 

Some rides I underrate a bit because there was a time when I didn't know that many coasters were better at night and didn't make the effort to get some after dark rides. Voyage in 2007 is an example of this. It had beat the living s*** out of me all day to the point having neck muscle spasms, so I rode Raven at night.

 

Others I just rode in the wrong seat, Wildcat at Compounce I only rode in the back seat and paid the price, and I'm sure the Beast on a non-wheel seat would have been much better.

 

I'm looking forward to the Steel poll, it will be interesting to see how New Texas Giant goes, I was seriously impressed.

[australianalex]

Shame that awesome Gravity Group coasters like Hades and Voyage have gotten so rough

Has Ravine Flyer II gone down the same route?

[therooboy]

The one thing I don't like about polls is Voyage is my #1 but in all fairness I last rode it in June 2006 when it was new. I rode it about 7 times that day and it was amazing. We are waiting for my youngest son to hit 48" before we go back (next year). I've read for years how rough it has gotten and would probably feel the same as most others however I can only judge it on my own experience.

 

That's a great point. I'm in the same boat. I rode at Holiwood Nights dozens of times in 2006 and loved it, it was my #2 for a couple of years.

 

However, Just like the MVP award in baseball, voting criteria is up to the voter.

 

Do you rank based on the best ride you ever had on the coaster?

Do you rank based on a typical ride?

Do you lower your ranking because the general enthusiast community complains about a coaster deteriorating?

Do you lower your ranking because people you respect and have similiar opinions have told you how rough a certain coaster has gotten?

 

Agree. Thats why i sometimes search for why people rate coasters a certain way.

I am certainly now aware of other aspects i hadn't considered such as age, that would cause a certain like/dislike for rides.

 

I dread the day i may not enjoy El Toro or Boulder Dash

[Skycoastin Steve]

Shame that awesome Gravity Group coasters like Hades and Voyage have gotten so rough

Has Ravine Flyer II gone down the same route?

I've ridden Ravine Flyer in 2008, 2010, and 2011, and it was butter smooth all three years. Last year might have had some very minor jack hammering, but I honestly can't recall for sure. Either way, it's held up beautifully over time, and that's riding both on and off wheel seats. Not sure how Waldameer has done it, but they've taken excellent care of RFII to this point.

[Guy T. Koepp]

As a father, I sometime take into consideration what my kids reaction to a ride is as well. My kids will pretty much ride anything now that they are both tall enough, and love coasters as much as I do. But, when my daughter comes off a ride crying, like she did once this year on a ride that will go nameless, or either one emphatically states that they don't want to ride a certain ride again that year, and my reaction is, "You know, I have no desire to ride that again this year as well." It will drop significantly in my ranking. But I still didn't rank it last.

[robbalvey]

That said, there was some talk of deliberately throwing the poll this year by stuffing the ballot box by some people with an axe to grind against Robb and TPR.

I do enjoy the comical irony that while TPR submits totally legit ballots, the only slight evidence I've seen of anyone trying to skew the poll with their own personal agenda, have been a couple of long-term, fairly well-known ACE members.

 

Funny, no?

 

--Robb "Not surprising..." Alvey

Edited January 30, 2012 by robbalvey

[Turtle Wax]

Shame that awesome Gravity Group coasters like Hades and Voyage have gotten so rough

Has Ravine Flyer II gone down the same route?

I've ridden Ravine Flyer in 2008, 2010, and 2011, and it was butter smooth all three years. Last year might have had some very minor jack hammering, but I honestly can't recall for sure. Either way, it's held up beautifully over time, and that's riding both on and off wheel seats. Not sure how Waldameer has done it, but they've taken excellent care of RFII to this point.

 

2009 was no different in that it was still butter smooth! I think 10' may have been it's "roughest" year; roughest being an extreme overstatement.

[MitchHawker]

^ While I am admittedly not the biggest Voyage fan in the world, I would have to question someone who ranked it dead last out of all the coasters they've ridden in the world, and this ballot (I looked it up myself), claims to have ridden quite a lot of really, really, really terrible coasters!

 

This ballot and a couple of others did catch my eye. I contacted several people via e-mail about very low placements of "top 5" coasters.

 

Cheri took the time to explain her placement of Voyage to me and I believe her ranking to be her honest opinion of the ride. She even made a second trip to re-ride it (based on reputation) and still found it rough in the extreme and never wants to ride it again.

 

We need to respect her opinion. A poll is one way to find a consensus in the data, but we should always remember that there is no "correct ballot" and that there will always be many people who will disagree with the consensus in any poll.

 

MH

[David H]

^ In my opinion, that's fair, even though I completely disagree with her opinion.

 

I don't honestly see how this is any different from the people who rank Gouderix or the SLC's (or even the Boomerangs) towards the bottom of their poll. Obviously, both Voyage and El Toro are better coasters then those. But, if you honestly get off a ride and hated it so much you would never ride it again, even with no wait, then isn't that the worst coaster on the planet for you? Or at least down among the worst? I mean, if you think it's horrible, then you think it's horrible.

 

Personally, I completely disagree. While, as I get older, I'm becoming more sensitive to rough rides than I used to be, I can still get some decent enjoyment out of even the roughest rides, provided that they're at least somewhat fun and interesting. I'd much rather ride a good coaster that's rough than a boring coaster that's smooth. But that's me.

 

But with the SLC's and Boomerangs, the category is supposed to be for your FAVORITE one of the rides. And even if the majority of them are rough as hell, have those of you who rank them very lowly NEVER ridden a good one? If so, then that's the one you should be ranking, fair or not. Both of them are decent designs. In fact, I think that the SLC is quite an excellent one. Unfortunately, they build them badly and parks don't maintain them well. But when they're on the smoother side, they're both quite fun rides, which is why I rank them much higher than most enthusiasts seem to. And while Gouderix is as rough as the lengends say, it was still fairly interesting and fun of a ride, I thought. There are certainly a bunch of steel coasters that were more boring and which I'd rather ride Gouderix than.

 

 

As for the question of how I rank coasters, I tend to rank based on the BEST rides I got on my last visit -- with an asterisk. I don't care what they were like early in the day when they were slower. I don't care if 90% of the seats aren't nearly as good as in the front or back (or seat 2 or 3 or second from the back.) Because when and where it's the best is when and where I'll be doing the vast majority of my riding. Who cares if it's boring in the middle of the day or in the middle of the train, if I don't ride then or there?

 

If a ride has gone downhill, but used to be better, I'll consider that. Especially if it's a situation that is likely to be fixed with maintenance. Or if I rode under bad conditions. But I'll take each one on a case by case basis, based on what I think it's likely to run like, based on the extremes of my own personal experiences.

 

For instance, if on my first visit to a park a coaster wasn't that impressive, but on my next visit, it was much better for whatever reason (i.e. it had been new and is now broken in, the weather was better, it was better at night, the trains were more full, etc.), then I'll rank it based on the best rides I had on it on my last visit.

 

If a coaster has gone downhill due to lack of maintenance, but I know they're working on it soon (or have done so since my last visit), I'll take that into consideration and sort of average my best visit with the latest one.

 

If it's gone downhill due to lack of maintenance it's not likely to get much of or especially due to a reprofile, then I will base my ranking on the best rides on my LAST visit.

 

If a coaster didn't deliver as good of rides as it had on my last visit, due to some situation that wasn't the coaster's fault, then I'll take that into consideration, and weigh the older visit more heavily, but still penalize it somewhat for not delivering this time. A good example would be on my big US trip in 2009, which was early in the June. Not only had some of the woodies not fully broken in, but later in the trip (particularly at Hershey and Kings Dominion), the parks were absolutely dead, so the woodies were running very slowly, due to nearly empty trains. That's certainly not the coaster's fault. It's mine for planning my trip that way. (On the plus side, I got a TON more rides at every park than I'd dared to hope for, so it was a good balance overall, even if some woodies had to be sacrificed for this trip.) So for the woodies particularly at those two parks, I did dock them a few notches, but not as much as they might have deserved based on the rides I actually got on this trip. BUt I think it's fair since I've definitely gotten much better rides in the not too distant past.

Edited February 1, 2012 by David H

[robbalvey]

^ While I am admittedly not the biggest Voyage fan in the world, I would have to question someone who ranked it dead last out of all the coasters they've ridden in the world, and this ballot (I looked it up myself), claims to have ridden quite a lot of really, really, really terrible coasters!

 

This ballot and a couple of others did catch my eye. I contacted several people via e-mail about very low placements of "top 5" coasters.

 

Cheri took the time to explain her placement of Voyage to me and I believe her ranking to be her honest opinion of the ride. She even made a second trip to re-ride it (based on reputation) and still found it rough in the extreme and never wants to ride it again.

 

We need to respect her opinion. A poll is one way to find a consensus in the data, but we should always remember that there is no "correct ballot" and that there will always be many people who will disagree with the consensus in any poll.

 

MH

I agree Mitch, and thanks for taking the time to explain. It's just very hard to believe! I'm sure you can appreciate the skeptism!

 

The reason why I support your poll is that everyone opinions, even a few odd-ones-out, are factored in very fairly.

 

--Robb

[David H]

Some general observations about this year’s results.

 

I think the biggest thing I noticed this year is how much more consistent the results were this year over past years. I think that they're settling in to more of a regular panel now, although the number of replies was way up over last year, probably due to the poll being done so late last year. I think that some people have dropped out of taking the poll, and more newer voices are in. While I wish everyone would stay in to give a broader cross-section of the enthusiast community, having more new people taking the poll is always a good thing.

 

Towards the top of the poll, there weren't many coasters that moved much more than 10-15 notches, and those were very much the exception. Towards the bottom of the poll, not too many coasters moved more than 20-30 notches, and even then, Mitch's decision to separate out the SBNO coasters accounts for up to 14 of those notches.

 

As more riders get out to some of the lesser ridden coasters, we're also starting to see a stabilization of the rankings. Because of the way that Mitch's methodology works, the lesser ridden coasters can have a major impact on the entire poll. Last year, with significantly fewer people taking the poll, and fewer valid matchups for each coaster pair, a lot of the matchups in the top 12 or were very close, within 2-3 votes. And you can't really say which coaster in any pair is better when the winner wins 3-2. But this uncertainly ends up affecting the entire set of results, because it gives higher ranking coasters blemished that they probably don't deserve. That ends up making the entire set of results a lot more volatile. Last year, about 1/3 of each of the matchups in the top 12 coasters were decided by a 1-3 vote difference. As such, they were less reliable.

 

This year, the only coasters in the top 50 with fewer than 20 riders were China's Fireball and the new Zippin Pippin, which is somewhat off the beaten coaster path in northern Wisconsin. As a result, there were very few close decisions in the top coaster matchups, which makes the results more stable and less volatile. We're probably seeing a much closer approximation of what most enthusiasts truly believe this year than in the past. This is obviously greatly helped by clubs like TPR, ECC and ACE bringing people out to some of the overseas coasters that few had previously ridden.

 

And the fact that nearly half of Fireball's and Zippin Pippin's coasters matchups with the rest of the coasters in the top of the list were decided by 2 votes or less makes those results very unreliable. We will probably get a much better view of where Fireball stands next year, after TPR brings another 30+ people out to ride it. Is its drop out of the top 10 this year just a sign of how unreliable its ranking is with so few riders? Or has it dropped in quality? We'll find out next year!

 

As for Zippin Pippin, I think that's the best example of how few riders really makes the results unreliable. Does it really belong at #38 when the previous version of the coaster only made the top 100 once in its last 9 years? I'd tend to doubt it, even if it's significantly better that the previous version. But with only 12 riders, most of which were probably very much old school coaster fans who are likely to rank it higher than the rest of us might, we get unreliable results, especially with the majority of its matchups being very close -- and as a result, unreliable. In fact, Zippin Pippin provided one of T Express' three blemishes, with a 2-2 tie. While I can see T Express losing to #1 El Toro, and maybe even see it tying with #5 Phoenix, I think that it's safe to say that it's a better coaster than Zippin Pippin, which ranked at #38, which is probably much higher than it deserves! This is the best example of how a few riders with unusual opinions can affect much higher ranked coasters on the list. That's why Mitch doesn't count coasters with fewer than 10 riders. Luckily, there were few such coasters ranking highly this year.

 

When looking at the results overall, I think it's always best to actually look at the results table for the history of the poll. That way you can more easily spot anomalies and trends. As I mentioned earlier, there are actually many fewer anomalies this year, and most fo them can be attributed to one or more coaster group's overseas trips or other events.

 

TPR didn't have too much of an effect on the wooden coaster poll this year, since it's overseas trips were to Japan and Australia, neither of which is exactly known for their great wooden coasters (except for the sadly long closed Aska in Japan!) I expect we'll see the affects of these TPR trips more strongly in the steel poll. Regina, however did get somewhat of a boost this year up to its highest ranking since the ECC/ACE Japan trip 4 years ago. TPR's biggest trip influence on the woodie poll this year would probably have to be on Yankee Cannonball, which jumped nearly 20 notches to #55 after this Summer's Northeast Tour. The Hershey Comet also got a bit of a boost from the TPR East Coast Bash.

 

Probably the biggest WTF ranking is the German El Toro jumping into the top 10 to #7, after having previously ranked at #13 and #20. I'm guessing that the ECC got some really great rides during ERT on their German trip this year. Still, that seems quite high for that coaster. Future years' polls will show if that was an anomaly or not. Mammut also got a decent jump this year from the ECC trip.

 

ACE's Scandinavia trip also helped a handful of woodies on the trip in the poll this year, particularly the two Danish Rutschebanen's and Vuoristorata, the first coaster of the trip, which jumped over 30 notches to its highest ever ranking.

 

Interestingly, the ACE Coaster Con add-on day at Kemah Boardwalk probably actually hurt the Boardwalk Bullet, since it was on the Sunday following the trip, with ERT in the morning. I skipped the morning ERT session, choosing to sleep late and hit the nearby Space Center during the day, knowing that a good Gravity Group woodie would ran better at the end of the day anyways. The very few ACErs there at closing said that it was running very significantly faster and better at night. So all of those who only rode in the morning weren't getting an accurate sense of the coaster, which might be part of why it dropped a bit this year, despite running quite a bit better than it has in the past two years. While I'm somewhat of a Gravity Group fanboy, I still had it ranked much higher at 22 than its poll ranking of 51, based on those excellent night rides. The other well, traveled enthusiasts who were there at the end of the night agreed that it is very much under-ranked, based on those rides.

 

A few other notable ranking moves from various coasters:

 

-- Cheetah jumped back into the top 100 way up at #80 for the first time in 5 years. Any idea if it got better, or was this just an anomaly this year?

 

-- After all the work enthusiasts did helping raise funds to get the Conneaut Blue Streak back open and the park stable (including helping the park get Pepsi Challenge grants), it's ironic that the coaster dropped 15 notches this year!

 

-- I'm guessing that Hullamvasut's big jump from #126 to #88 -- it's highest ranking in SEVENTEEN YEARS, and the highest jump of any coaster this year -- is due to the uncertainly of so few riders. Hungary isn't exactly a major stop on most coaster enthusiasts' must-visit lists!

 

-- I was wondering if maybe the ECC Germany trip had stopped in Austria, since Prater Park's Hochschaubahn similarly jumped 26 notches to its highest ranking in 16 years, but they didn't. And with 39 riders, its results shouldn't be THAT volatile. Did it get some major retracking or anything this year?

 

-- Great American Scream Machine, Arkansas Twister, Skyliner, and Twister II all got some decent boosts this year of around 20 notches each. Not sure why, although some of the missing SBNO's that aren't on the list this year helped them somewhat.