Six Flags Magic Mountain's X2 Media Day

[Guest]

 

On the drive up to SFMM yesterday, my expectations were lowered by a good analogy... You drive a heavy car down the road, your ride is going to be smoother than driving a lighter car down the road. So, if the new "lighter" trains are running about the same as the old "heavier" trains were running at their best, and improved reliability and operations are achieved, than isn't it a win win?

 

I was thinking the same thing, it doesn't have as much mass as the old ones which probably provided a shield from the vibrations.

 

Anybody know if the loading and unloading is faster than the previous X; despite unloading in the loading now. I thought they would have used the unloading now as I have read they would be using three trains, which seems like it would be more beneficial.

[robbalvey]

Anybody know if the loading and unloading is faster than the previous X; despite unloading in the loading now. I thought they would have used the unloading now as I have read they would be using three trains, which seems like it would be more beneficial.

As far as the load/unload goes, there does seem to be efficiencies in bringing the train right in and unloading and loading the riders in the same spot. Where time is wasted is having to wait for the people in the front row walk all the way down to the exit gates that are located next to the back row.

 

I asked about the possibility of using the old unload station and I was told that they could still rotate seats and unload in that area if they felt it was help speed up the loading process with three trains.

 

They did have all three trains on site and ready to go yesterday, but for the media day they were running two because there weren't that many riders.

 

--Robb

[Guest]

I think I see the deal now. To me from what you said it kind of seems like the unloading station is the second station on tatsu.

[mcjaco]

I asked about the possibility of using the old unload station and I was told that they could still rotate seats and unload in that area if they felt it was help speed up the loading process with three trains.

 

They did have all three trains on site and ready to go yesterday, but for the media day they were running two because there weren't that many riders.

 

--Robb

 

I always thought that was the best way to do it. Unloading and loading in the same area is just asking for headaches.

[robbalvey]

^ The load/unload in seperate areas worked poorly on X especially when running one train. You'd have to wait for the riders to unload, rotate seats into the X position, advance train, rotate seats into the load position, load train, rotate seats into the X position, check harnesses, dispatch train.

 

So if they were running only one train, this new system would be MUCH faster.

 

The re-design of the trains is supposed to help with the reliability of the ride so that there will be more trains available so you won't see it running one train anymore.

 

In those "good months" before X went down, it seemed to run two trains quite consistently and the load/unload in separate areas seemed to work ok.

 

You still wasted time with all the "rotate seats/advance/rotate again" silliness, but at least you had just loaded and sent another train.

 

Had they gone with the Japanese loading style (IMO the only thing Eejanaika did right) I think it would have increased the load/unload even more, but my guess is that based on something Tim said about being cautiously optimistic about what worked in Japan may not work in Southern California, I can see why they dropped those plans.

 

If the ops can get people to hustle getting out of the train and into the exit area, they will save time over the old loading system.

 

But that is going to be the key factor here.

 

--Robb

[Guest]

What really drove me nuts watching it in the unload/load process was that they did not design the ride in the first place so that they did not have to change the rotation of the seats when going from the unload to the loading. Also another thought that seems like it would work really well is to turn both loading zones into two seperate loading/unloading zones, top thrill dragster style. Sure the train in the second zone when advanced into the first zone would have to wait a little while, but then you would have in a way two stations. Anyway, just my two cents.

[mcjaco]

^ The load/unload in seperate areas worked poorly on X especially when running one train. You'd have to wait for the riders to unload, rotate seats into the X position, advance train, rotate seats into the load position, load train, rotate seats into the X position, check harnesses, dispatch train.

 

So if they were running only one train, this new system would be MUCH faster.

 

--Robb

 

With one train operation, it makes total sense. With two and three, not so much. At least in my eyes. Which are skewed. Or something like that.

 

Oh well. I'll be interested to see the new trains, whenever Iget out there again. I still need Ninja and that Vu credit!

[Aaronkv]

I was thinking about this while they were doing the update and when they talked about not using the unload station. Why don't they still use the unload station but after the seats rotate to unload they stay in the "unload" positiong and advance to the load section, that takes away 2 times the seats have to rotate. There is not mechanical crap coming out of the floor to unlock the restraints anymore so those bars that stuck out of them wouldn't drag on the ground. I think it would be easy to do, just reposition the "X" rail in between the unload and load sections and your good to go. This would work great with 3 train op.

 

 

Edit: ^^ you guys pointed that out kinda just before me

[TTD]

I talked with Tim Burkhart this morning to see if he had his ride on X2. After his face lit up and exclaimed: "I was a 6-year-old at Christmas!", he said he took 4 rides on the new train in the back row outside seat (which he stated was one of the roughest). The initial goals of the remodel were to improve train reliability and rider through put, and now Tim is happy to say that X2 is smoother than Scream. I laughed in his face when he said X2 was smoother, but he stated that I would be pleasantly surprised. Everything is on track for the Memorial Day Opening, and we will just have to wait and see.

 

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=3540

 

Again, I don't really think that it is the faults of the riders who expected X2 to be smoother, but the overall hype leading up to yesterday. I have to agree with the people who are confused as to why the coaster feels like it used to, after comments above state otherwise (especially when those comments are coming from the Park President). But thats not to say that the ride isn't good, because I'm sure its one of the top rides in the country. But I mean, if you're wondering why everybody was expecting something a bit smoother out of the re-engineered trains, this comment is exactly why. I hope you realize how much publicity that one single sentence got, because it certainly meant a lot in the expectations of people. So instead of saying that somebody is an 'idiot' for saying X2 would be as smooth as a B&M coaster, remember why people begin to think those things. It'd be like if Dick Kinzel told me they redesigned Mean Streak's trains, and now its running as smooth as El Toro. Of course I'm going to give his opinion some weight, especially if he's the only one who's ridden it.

[Manic Monte]

^ Um...have you ever been on Scream? There's a reason Tim referenced Scream and not Riddler's, Tatsu or Batman. Scream is not a buttery smooth B&M. On the contrary actually.

 

So his comments were not hype at all. Ithink people beileved what they wanted to believe, despite warnings all winter long that the point of this revamp was to increase capacity and downtime issues.

 

Robb is right. To make X as smooth as a B&M, the ride would need to be completely re-engineered by guess who? B&M. It's still an Arrow creation.

 

I don't see how ANYBODY could be confused by that...

[angryemobeaver]

X2 looks amazing! I love the speakers and fire effects. Although it would be cooler if X2 could of got the tunnels!

[Revolucion]

^^^Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka costed nowhere near any B&M coaster. Yes, you say 25 million for Top Thrill Dragster, but that price is very under-flated. I imagine the reason why they didn't dump X already, and want to keep it is because it cost so much money, and you want to keep a very costly coaster you paid big bucks for.

 

A sunk cost should not be a factor in making a decision. That often leads to pouring good money after bad. A prime example is the gambler who won't walk away from the table after losing a lot of money; the opposite is when New Coke was developed and launched at a huge cost to the Coca-Cola Company, but basically shelved because of customer dissatisfaction. A theme park corrolation would be Windjammer at Knott's, which was scrapped shortly after being built.

 

Time will tell if spending $10 million on X2 was worth it. If it brings in an extra million people over the next five years it will be.

[mcjaco]

Again, I don't really think that it is the faults of the riders who expected X2 to be smoother, but the overall hype leading up to yesterday. I have to agree with the people who are confused as to why the coaster feels like it used to, after comments above state otherwise (especially when those comments are coming from the Park President).

 

To quote Robb earlier:

 

We were all told at West Coast Bash that the new trains would improve the "reliability" of the ride creating less downtime and they hoped that it would also be a smoother ride. And that it was. Smoothest ride in the world? Not a chance. But that wasn't my expectation.

 

I don't recall them ever saying that it was going to be smoother, just that they hoped it would. The real reason for the changes is for more reliable trains with less down time. Why is this so hard to understand?

[PURE]

This post was made understanding that the new trains were NOT meant to improve the ride experience, but were installed for maintenence purposes only.

 

^ Um...have you ever been on Scream? There's a reason Tim referenced Scream and not Riddler's, Tatsu or Batman. Scream is not a buttery smooth B&M. On the contrary actually.

 

I disagree. Riddlers, Batman and Scream are all pretty much in the same ballpark of smoothness. I don't think its off par to say Scream is a relatively smooth coaster (be it B&M or not), and for the park president to say that X is now as smooth as Scream, really puts a frame of reference in how improved the ride was supposed to be.

 

From what I've heard, there is very little ride experience improvement on X, basically its riding the same as it did 6 months ago (apparently the last raven turn and last turnover are just as rough as before) and that is NOT how Tim made it sound when he made that statement.

 

So I think it needs to be understood that someone that doesn't do as much research as all of us could hear a statement like that, and expect the ride to be smoother. Thus, the typical park goer would have been misled.

 

I don't care because I didn't believe his comment to begin with (along with the numerous exaggerated expectations of this X2 revamp), but I can understand how that's what irks some people.

 

I haven't ridden the ride or experienced the "improvements" firsthand, so I can't comment on those yet, but I will say this: I was really excited about getting on X2, so much that I was going to get out to the park tomorrow for opening day. But after seeing the TR's, I can more or less wait to get on this thing for another week or so, or for that matter whenever I happen to make it out to the park again.

[Manic Monte]

^ Ugh, here you go again.

 

Tim gave his opinion. So uness you are accusing him of lying, what you're saying makes no sense.

 

As I said before, there is a reason he compared X2 with Scream and not the park's other B&Ms, Goliath or even Viper.

 

Scream as smooth as Tatsu or Riddler? Um... ok. The first drop on Scream gives me a headache.

 

I totally "got" the comparison, and I'm not even a X fan.

 

Once again, if people built up expectations beyond what is even capable, that's not SFMM's fault, it's their own.

 

ADMIN: Please no personal attacks. We are here to have a healthy discussion. Post edited

[robbalvey]

I disagree. Riddlers, Batman and Scream are all pretty much in the same ballpark of smoothness.

Well, you're wrong. I've actually seen accelerometer data that shows Scream has more side to side motion than Riddler's and Batman. The data also showed a lot more "noise" which hints at more vibration coming from the train.

 

I will also say that if you ride X2 on an inside seat it quite possibly could be as smooth as Scream. If you remember correctly, Tim did state VERY clearly that the smoothness of the ride will depend on several variables. So perhaps Tim's statement was based on taking a ride on X2 with the "perfect" configuration. After all, he IS the project manager on the ride and will have tested the ride in probably every configuration of weight distribution possible.

 

^ Ugh, here you go again.

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

 

--Robb

[BeemerBoy]

Robb, nice work on the video. SFMM, nice effort on trying to improve something. Did it work? That's probably better answered by the GP and gate receipts.

 

As it is in my eyes, after the overhaul, it just remains a unique credit that I'd someday like to get. Yeah, that's about it.

 

I will say though that the fire kind of reminds me of a B-level 80's hair band trying to stand out as the opening act. "Dude, just throw some more pyro effects out there....you'll be fine!"

[Manic Monte]

I suggest people get out and ride it (if it's something that interests you), and THEN give an opinion. Otherwise I can't help but laugh at your pre-ride negative stances on the ride and the management team

 

How do you know the ride won't be smoother than you're expecting? I haven't read a review yet stating that the ride isn't at least a little smoother.

 

I've known from the beginning that a smoother ride on X depends on the weight distribution on the seats. And based on the nature of the design, that can't MAGICALLY be engineered out of the ride without rebuilding the entire ride design from scratch. It's the nature of the beast.

 

I just hope it rides at least as well as it did right before the ride went down. That, combined with the audio experience, has me excited to ride again.

[tsmcdon]

^

 

Had they gone with the Japanese loading style (IMO the only thing Eejanaika did right) I think it would have increased the load/unload even more, but my guess is that based on something Tim said about being cautiously optimistic about what worked in Japan may not work in Southern California, I can see why they dropped those plans.

 

 

Robb, could you please explain how the Eejanaika loading process worked and what made it better than X2? I'm just curious.

 

I have wanted to ride X for years but have not had a chance to get out to SFMM to ride it.

[ghost007jas]

Well, you probably shouldn't be comparing something at Six Flags with something at Disney. That's just my take on it. I have to say that when I first heard about the audio system my initial reaction was "OMG, this is going to be the epic fail!" and it absolutley is the opposite. In fact, Six Flags take on audio worked BETTER than Rockin' Space Mountain or Screamin. So instead of just knee jerk complaining about the ride and comparing it to a Disney attraction, maybe you should come out and ride it?

 

I wasn't comparing or complaining, just stating an opinion. I never said anything negative about the ride, just that the effects seem a little random. If that's "Knee jerk complaining" then, what isn't?

[bflag]

I suggest people get out and ride it (if it's something that interests you), and THEN give an opinion. Otherwise I can't help but laugh at your pre-ride negative stances on the ride and the management team

 

My thoughts exactly. Most of the (negative) comments about the ride are from people who haven't even rode it. Go out and give it a chance instead of letting other people make up your mind about how smooth or not smooth it is.

 

X was already one of the most innovative rides EVER. When I first seen the art for this coaster I almost could believe my eyes. For all those people who are not X fans or haven't rode it yet, you have to admit that just the idea of this coaster is something that should be appreciated. Smooth or not smooth effects or no effects perfect or not perfect X (X2) will go down as one of the best roller coasters ever built. When I go to the park I go with my family and there's about 9 of us and not once have I ever heard the word "smooth". When my brother and nephew get off this ride they are absolutely speech-lees. So I think the general public really doesn't care about the same things that we go back in forth about on here cause people still line up for this ride. Hell, my wife cant even remember the names of the coasters and we live in So Cal and go at least once a year, but X2 is still her favorite ride.

 

My Wife's Words: "If you don't like or never rode it then why cant the rest of us enjoy it like its intended purpose"

[mcjaco]

My Wife's Words: "If you don't like or never rode it then why cant the rest of us enjoy it like its intended purpose"

 

Quoted because it needs repeating. I heard the same thing about the original X. I actually really enjoyed it even after listening to naysayers for years.

[Hercules]

^ That might be the most intelligent coaster related post I have ever read.

 

Beemer - That is really funny about the hairband thing. I remember seeing the band Voyager when I was in elementary school, and the flames they had looked exactly like that. I swear that at one point they were so out of sync that the lead guitarist lifted up a thumb to one of the pyro guys as to say, "Do it now man, we are dying here!"

 

X2 - I have no comment since I have not been on it. It looks really cool though. I give Six Flags credit for trying the best they can.

[Calaway Park]

Looks fantastic! I'm just wondering what happened to the tunnel!

 

-Sean 'More excited about this then Behemoth!' S

 

Hey, I'll never be able to ride either any time soon! Why not?

[packfanlv]

^I agree with what you said about the GP. Every time I have ridden X with someone in my family they were absolutely blown away by it. That is why there was always a long line for it. The GP was willing to wait in three hour long lines to ride this ride.

 

This ride is the first thing you see when pulling into the parking lots and with the improvements and the fact that SFMM is the cheapest theme park option in Southern California with their specials right now, I think it will be drawing people. For such an extreme coaster it also has the benefit of having a 48" height requirement making it more friendly for families with children who fall short of 54".

 

Yes we are enthusiasts and have been on 10X more coasters than the average person in the GP. When I hadn't traveled as much and been on coasters like SROS, Nitro & MF then this was my top coaster. I now prefer airtime over inversions, but X2 is a truly unique ride and in my top 5 coasters. I think people will be getting out to the park just to see this ride. I know I have non enthusiast family in Southern California who is going out to see it this weekend!