Wes Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 While at WCB and riding Scream, I remembered how kick ass the sitdown version of B&M zero-g heartline roll/camelback element is. I like the sensation of the element better than how it's done on the inverted coasters. Is there a reason the inverted coasters can't do the more angled camelback variation, and have to gradually slope down then do the inversion? I know a few people on here know quite a bit about engineering and physics and was just wondering why the variation exists at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 *BEGIN DORKY MOMENT* The Zero-G roll is based off the heartline as you may already know. What gives the Zero-G roll its, well "Zero-G" is the fact that the heartline, and the train, make the roll over a parabola. The Inverted coaster actually makes a Parabolic curve through the Zero-G roll like the sitdowns do. Its just like cresting a hill, but you are rotating around its axis, which makes it look like it "flattens out" in the middle of the roll. *END DORKY MOMENT* No idea if that answered anything for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkTrips Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 You should have asked Claude when you sent him a letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraken613 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I don't know if i'm right but I think it has to do with the design of the trains. Its kind of like how inverted coasters cant do straight drops. This is just what I think i'm probably wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Who said inverts can't do straight drops? A know a few that have straight airtime hills, so I see no reason why they'd have to curve the first drop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 *BEGIN DORKY MOMENT* The Zero-G roll is based off the heartline as you may already know. What gives the Zero-G roll its, well "Zero-G" is the fact that the heartline, and the train, make the roll over a parabola. The Inverted coaster actually makes a Parabolic curve through the Zero-G roll like the sitdowns do. Its just like cresting a hill, but you are rotating around its axis, which makes it look like it "flattens out" in the middle of the roll. *END DORKY MOMENT* No idea if that answered anything for you! I think I sort of understand what you're saying...essentially if B&M mimicked the camelback inversion on an inverted, it wouldn't actually be zero-g because it wouldn't be rolling over a parabola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Exactly! If the element from Scream was just flipped and put on an inverted coaster, the heart line would be outside the parabola of curvature it should follow. here's an example on NL. Both of these examples were AHG'd from the same piece of track. Now see how the heart line is below the track, the track has to dip down so that the train can follow the parabolic curve. See how the heart line follows a parabolic path? The track rotates around it so the train follows the parabolic path too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 ^ Well explained. What program did you use to draw that? Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 ^ here's an example on NL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 ^ Thanks. I guess I'm more tired than I thought. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraken613 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thats interesting to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP_RULES Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 CL420 beat me to it, I was going to explain using NL as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanic Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the difference in sensation is primarily due to the fact that your head is further from the track on a sit down. It therefore describes a larger circle when transitioning through the element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 ^I just think it's because the Batman coasters (and other inverts) are paced much quicker than floorless or sitdown coasters from B&M. Therefore, it's more of a thrust on your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 I think it has to do with the arc of the element more than anything. Sitdowns are more exaggerated in their curve, wheras inverteds are a little shallower. Either element is awesome, but the sit-down ones have more of a "HOLY F***" feeling to it. It's probably the only inversion on any sit-down looper that gets my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 This is my favorite inversion on Scream! at SFMM. But I do like the ones on inverted coasters as well. It would be quite interesting on a standup... Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'll try putting this in lamens terms. But, B&M centers the axis of the turns around the center of the body, rather than the train. Thats causes their "perfect heart line." If you go to Riddler's Revenge and stand in the station, you'll notice that the track over turns a HECK OF A LOT before it actually goes straight back at the service brake (end of ride brake run). Thats because the center of the bodies is far away from the track. So i guess thats going back to inverted vs. sit down, is the center of the bodies are further away from the track on an inverted rather then a sit down. Hope that clarified things a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Either element is awesome, but the sit-down ones have more of a "HOLY F***" feeling to it. It's probably the only inversion on any sit-down looper that gets my attention. I feel the same way whenever I ride Medusa at SFDK. It's one of the most intense inversions, and my favorite part of the ride along with the sea serpent roll and the drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP Psyclone Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 And remember, Arrow designed the inversions on Drachen Fire around the train and not the heartline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Wes, have you ridden Patriot, by chance? The zero-g roll on Patriot is as good, if not better than any on a standard sit-down. It gets me every time and keeps me coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrakenKing Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Zero-G rolls are my favorite element on any coaster. I've never ridden Scream! before, but Kraken's is my all time favorite variation of the element. On an Invert, Dueling Dragon's Ice or Talon's are my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Both Kumba and Montu have GREAT zero-g rolls! But the Batman clones or Raptor's just didn't do anything for me... So I think from this, we can conclude that Busch Gardens rules. (Or that the elements just vary from ride to ride?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraken613 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Top Guns dosnt do anything either. I also think Krakens has to be one of the best zero-g rolls ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I definitely agree that Batman doesn't have the greatest Zero G roll in the world. It's more of like a quick snap then a drawn out floater inversion. Scream doesn't have the snap and on Scream you can really feel the 0 g's. So I just think it depends on the actual design of the ride, but I have noticed that inverts seem to have more of a snap to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastercrzyjames Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Yeah i love the zero g roll, thats definitely my favorite part of a well built B&M roller coaster. There's nothing better than going through an inversion while feeling weightlessness, it's AWESOME! But yeah i do agree about the zero g roll on batman, it isn't as good and kind of lacking. Maybe the pace there is too fast? And Kumba and Scream! both have amazing zero g rolls. My favorite on an invert would have to be Montu. It's the one inverted coaster where i've felt the zero g roll the best. But yeah i too have always wondered why the inverted zero g rolls look different, like a more flat look rather than the more definite curved top. Thanks for the insight guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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