rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Why is it that the lift hills on some Arrow coasters (I've experienced it on these two) seem to 'rock' the train back and forth? It's as if the chain (EDIT: MORE LIKE SLOWS AND THEN RETURNS TO THE REGULAR SPEED), over and over again until you reach the top. Any possible explanation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFORCE Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I do not know what you are talking about, I have never experienced this on an arrow coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoosh Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Could it have something to do with the blocks? If the train in front of it has not cleared the "magic number" of blocks in front of the train you are on, the chain will slow down to allow the train to clear the block. It happens all the time on B&Ms that run multiple trains (well they have to have a good load crew too -- you won't have to worry about it on StL's Batman as they always stack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imbordisux Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I think he's asking why the chain-lifts on several Arrow rides tend to vary speed. Phantom's Revenge and "PKI's" Top Gun move like rush-hour traffic, slow, fast, slow, fast until you're finally at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 I think he's asking why the chain-lifts on several Arrow rides tend to vary speed. Phantom's Revenge and "PKI's" Top Gun move like rush-hour traffic, slow, fast, slow, fast until you're finally at the top. THANK YOU!! THAT'S EXACTLY what I mean!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vjgx Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I've only experienced this on Canyon Blaster in Las Vegas (an old Arrow coaster), and there was only one train, so it wasn't a block issue. The lift hill just kept on going fast-slow-fast-slow, changing every half a second or so... It was kind of weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedB Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Iron Dragon at CP is like this also. Just always passed it off as being a junk coaster than needed to be scrapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 RedB, if you look at the subtitle of this thread, I mention Iron Dragon. So you have experienced it, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Possibly the motors are just the minimum power to lift the train up, which would mean that the power is weak enough to fluctuate? That's my guess. I wouldn't say the motor is badly designed, just that it could be designed better to not have so much fluctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraxleRIDAH Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I've felt this sensation on Magic Mountain's Viper before, but the park's two other Arrow coasters -- Ninja and X don't do that. Strange. Probably has something to do with the age of the gearbox or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 I've felt this sensation on Magic Mountain's Viper before, but the park's two other Arrow coasters -- Ninja and X don't do that. Strange. Probably has something to do with the age of the gearbox or something. I understand why X doesn't have this, as Arrow had probably figured out about the problem and fixed it by 2002. If it DOES have to do with age though, would that mean that X's lift would start doing this (if they didn't change the gearbox for awhile... hahaha, as if it hasn't had enough problems already)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedB Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Iron Dragon and Demon at PGA I thought both coasters were for PGA. Iron Dragon is the only coaster I have felt this on. It occurs on both hills every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 RedB, I don't mind. I was just diffrentiating from the one at SFGAm, since I haven't been on that one. And yes, it does happen on both hills. Riley-might the 'arrowfanman' know the answer? (and), those crazy ARROWS! -Brands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I have actually experienced this on alot of wild mouse coasters ive ridden. (Ex: Cheetah Chase, the Wild mouse at Lagoon) It may have something to do with the weight of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
restoca Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I know I've seen some kind of counter-weight mechanism involved with some coasters' lifts. This weight sort of bobs up and down when the train hits the lift. I certainly don't know all the technical aspects, but I think its purpose is to keep the chain taut. Just a guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Restoca, that all sounds logical except for one thing. It seems to me that the lift would be pulled taut by the counterweight when you're pulled up the hill (as the dropping of the counterweight would pull on the chain) and then it would be loosening when it slows. Is this done on purpose, or is there something I'm missing about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekoma Fan Boy Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I think it might have to do with the trains being heavy or something. Like think, when you drag an unusually heavy load across the ground, you don't pull it at a consistent speed, you Yank it (fast) wait a second (slow) Yank (fast) and wait (slow) and so on. I could be completely wrong, it is only an Idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I have only experienced this on the New Mexico Rattler, and believe it's due to when the train latches onto the chain, the motor is strained and then pulses until the motor can evenly pulse to move the train...(I'm not really sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 on NMR, does the train eventually start moving at a consistent speed somewhere on the lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Could it have something to do with the blocks? If the train in front of it has not cleared the "magic number" of blocks in front of the train you are on, the chain will slow down to allow the train to clear the block. It happens all the time on B&Ms that run multiple trains (well they have to have a good load crew too -- you won't have to worry about it on StL's Batman as they always stack) I think your right about that. Top Gun at KI does it about half way up the hill cause the other train hasn't cleared the brakes yet. Also The Beast also has various chain speeds. A couple of weeks ago I was on The Beast and we went slow all the way to the top of lift 1, at the top of lift 1 we came to a complete stop for a few seconds and started over the hill at full speed of the lift. I believe they do this so they don't have to stop the train on the lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuggles Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 On timberwolf, the cars used to bob up and down going up the lift. I know what you are talking about though, kind of fast, then slow really lightly the whole way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterNut17 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Someone before mentioned if Demon at SFGAm does this...well, it does. I have felt it to, and it only really starts once you get to the speed of the lift, not the fast speed of the pre-drop. Demon seems to even out by the top, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileybrands Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 I was thinking. Either way, no matter if they rock it or bring the train up the lift at a consistent speed, the same amount of work will be done. HOWEVER, isn't power: work/time? So... my guess is that by rocking it up the lift, it takes more time than bringing it up at a consistent speed equal to what the rocking lift is moving at. That would mean that it would be using less power. My only gripe about that is this: Couldn't they just make the chain slower to use a similar amount of power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasterbp Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Someone else already mentioned this, and they were correct. It has to do with the chain tensioners that you can see on the lifts. It is VERY visible on the 1st lift of Iron Dragon. You can see where the chain comes off the motor and around a wheel and then back up the lift. That wheel is held up by either a counterweight, or some pistons, and keeps tension on the chain. If you watch when a train engages the lift, you will see that wheel start bouncing up and down as the wait of the train hits the chain. And since Arrow just lets their trains drop onto the lift chains, depending on how well the tensioner is set up, you will "bounce" up the lift hill. B&Ms don't typically do this because they either guide their trains onto the lift using boosters that make the train travel at roughly the same speed as the chain, or they use a small brake, which is why they almost always engage the lift chain like buttery goodness. Hope this helps out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitywolf216 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I have only experienced this on the New Mexico Rattler, and believe it's due to when the train latches onto the chain, the motor is strained and then pulses until the motor can evenly pulse to move the train...(I'm not really sure) to the best of my coaster knowledge this is closest to whats going on. Apart from the iron dragon (on which I too have experienced this phenomenon) it usually occurs on larger coasters with extremely heavy chain weights. Like on Phantom's revenge. I'm actually at the park right now, and after watching the chain lift for quite a while, I have noticed that the chain has a lot of slack on the return trip. and when a trains chain dogs hit connect, the slack sections bounce, adding probably a thousand or more access pounds of stress to the motor. causing it to slow down and speed up as the chain settles down. Now on smaller coasters it would have more to do with the weight of the train balancing out, like on Cedar Creek Mine Ride at Cedar Point. The trains already have some momentum going into the lift hill, so as train charges up the hill and loses speed, the small motor is charged with the incredible task of catching an extremely heavy load whose momentum and weight has shifted towards falling down the incline the chain is pulling up from. Therefore you can easily tell when the chain engages because the train comes to a complete stop while the motor has a heart attack stopping the train from falling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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