Can CFI Undo Paramount's Handy Work

[mrhambone]

Just came across the following album on web shots – it's 258 pictures of Kings dominion from the old days -

http://news.webshots.com/album/419637432CUOxsq?start=0

 

Pretty fun stuff to look at, but I started noticing how much Paramount has destroyed a beautiful park in the name of adding more bang for the almighty buck. I also began to wonder if CFI can undo the damage that Paramount has wrought. Look at what CFI is trying to do at PKI with SOB – makes you wonder if it's a loss cause?

 

Here's two examples for you consideration. First up is Lake Charles from 1975 when the park opened, and then from 2001. Notice how the lake has been reduced to only a third of its original size?

 

Second example is the Lost world mountain pre-volcano and post volcano. Take a look at the left side – it's all gone. What was once a nice piece of eye candy has been defaced with a mediocre coaster.

 

There are even more examples, like the missing rides (sky ride and the steam train to name just two). Also take note of how much Paramount tried to squeeze into already tight spaces – maybe that's why Hypersonic is up for sale?

 

Sigh.

 

Here's hoping for the best.

Plenty of room for fishing!

Now it's just a puddle!

I can still hear those Smurfs singing....

The blast coaster blasted part of the mountain away!

[Wes]

Unless you're idea of CF "undoing" Paramount is adding trashcans and cement, NOPE!

[mrhambone]

Unless you're idea of CF "undoing" Paramount is adding trashcans and cement, NOPE!

 

Unforunately, there is no room to add more trash cans!

[robbalvey]

So you're saying that Paramount adding arguably the best coaster in the park (Volcano) and a really good water park is bad?

 

--Robb "Personally I think Paramount did GREAT things for PKD!" Alvey

[Blazen_AZN]

The ride might be good and all, but, i HATE the look of (volcano). Its just bugs me how it doesn't look like they tride to incorperate the mountain into the ride at all...

[MisterP]

I know how you feel (I loved my home park, SFSTL, more before it actually got modern coasters like BTR & MrF and lost the cheesy but fun themed rides). But having been to PKD only once (2005), Volcano was the one ride that I missed when I left. But I have to mention that I enjoyed the park very much - I thought it kicked the crap out of Kings Island!

[restoca]

I can't see where the left side of the mountain is missing. The bobs is snug against it in both photos. In any case, it was certainly beautiful in the older photo. The Volcano structure and Outer Limits box are not so beautiful.

 

Is that a restaurant in front of the mountain? In the newer photo it seems to have lost its right half.

 

As far as the big water features and such being gobbled up by expansion projects, I think that's sort of their purpose in a park's initial design scheme. It's just a shame that such beautiful features are usually replaced by a not-so-beautiful (or appropriate for the area's theme) new attraction. (Wasn't Mantis placed on a former waterway?)

 

Surely IOA won't ever use this method of expansion.

 

Oh yeah, the parks that don't have beautiful water features just use their parking lots!

[TheGreatOne]

If you want to see what CF can do to a nice park, just have someone post some pictures of Knott's from 1990 and compare it to today's Knott's. It's much, much worse than what Paramount did to PKD. Expect a ton more trees to be removed.

[rollermonkey]

I don't think that he was saying that the rides or the waterpark are bad in and of themselves, rather that the park was better looking 'in the old days.' I can agree with that sentiment, but not every park can be Busch or Disney, even if we'd all love it if they were!

[mrhambone]

So you're saying that Paramount adding arguably the best coaster in the park (Volcano) and a really good water park is bad?

 

No – I was referring to a bad show. As an example, look at the front of Expedition Everest. How much of the ride do you see? Not much, and that’s a very good show. In my opinion, Paramount took a great idea and theme, but didn’t execute it very well. End result was bad show. Same thing with filling in the lake. In my opinion (again), that ranks right up there with building a coaster in a parking lot, and not adding any scenery!

 

I can't see where the left side of the mountain is missing

 

Sorry – I meant to say the right side!

 

Is that a restaurant in front of the mountain? In the newer photo it seems to have lost its right half.

 

Actually, it’s half of the former monorail station. Before the mountain, there was a monorail that went into the Safari half of the park – the part that is behind the Rebal Yell.

 

 

There’s also another side to this that Rob alluded to – direction. Was the direction Paramount took Kings Dominion a good one? Was adding a bunch of big rides in an incoherent manner (why is there a bobsled in the middle of the Congo?) the right way to go? Look at the crowds PKD attracted in recent years. My last two visits over the last five years were not good ones – lots of fights, line jumping, harassment, and rudeness.

 

Can/will CFI point Kings Dominion back to its roots? Or will it become the Magic Mountain of the east coast?

[jarmor]

Magic mountian of the east?!? I have never been to SFMM but I think KD is in no way in bad shape. I dont get it. Why cant a park change?

[mrhambone]

Magic mountian of the east?!? I have never been to SFMM but I think KD is in no way in bad shape. I dont get it. Why cant a park change?

 

Sorry, bad attempt at humor!

[robbalvey]

So you're saying that Paramount adding arguably the best coaster in the park (Volcano) and a really good water park is bad?

 

No – I was referring to a bad show. As an example, look at the front of Expedition Everest. How much of the ride do you see? Not much, and that’s a very good show. In my opinion, Paramount took a great idea and theme, but didn’t execute it very well.

Dude, you're comparing a regional park to a Disney destination resort park. Expedition Everest is a $100+ million dollar attraction, and it *HAS* to be because that's what it takes to be competitive in Orlando. Trust me, if Disney could have gotten away with building a clone of Volcano, they would have!

 

Volcano on the other hand, if they had spent $100 million dollars on it, they would still be trying to recoup their investment today.

 

You need to know a little bit more about how parks operate and set your expectation levels as such. If you want Expedition Everest, go to Walt Disney World.

 

Personally, I'd actually rather ride Volcano!

 

--Robb

[jamesdillaman]

^ Every visit to PKD for me has been much better than visits to PKI. I think PKD is one of the parks that Paramount poured the most money into. If anything, CF looking to sell Hypersonic XLC I think is a step in the right direction for them. I just don't see this decline you are referring to.

[TheGreatOne]

So you're saying that Paramount adding arguably the best coaster in the park (Volcano) and a really good water park is bad?

 

No – I was referring to a bad show. As an example, look at the front of Expedition Everest. How much of the ride do you see? Not much, and that’s a very good show. In my opinion, Paramount took a great idea and theme, but didn’t execute it very well. End result was bad show. Same thing with filling in the lake. In my opinion (again), that ranks right up there with building a coaster in a parking lot, and not adding any scenery!

 

Sorry, but comparing Volcano to EE is just ignorant. First of all, Paramount was dealing with a structure already in place. It is much smaller than the Mountain of EE. Second, Disney planned everything around EE (including scenery) at the same time! Paramount was simply revamping a "dead" area that was left from the Taft days, if I'm not mistaken.

 

I was going to say more, but Robb covered everything else pretty well.

 

-Bryan "Cedar Fair and Paramount are NOT Disney" Wood

[DerekRx]

Cedar Fair has no concept of theming at all. Look at their attempted themes at Knotts, or that awesome theming on Top Thrill Dragster and how long that lasted. Expect the Paramount parks to get plenty of trash cans, wide open spaces with bright concrete and anything from your childhood to be removed. I can only wonder how much longer the Treasure Cave will exist at PKD.

[Bubba Z]

Can we close this thread now in fear of losing the Treasure cave. It's the only secret left in the park.

[mrhambone]

Sorry for brutally arguing to a newcomer, but you need come up with these ideas with a neutral side, so you don't get bombarded with arguments. Instead you watch other users fight and possibly hurt each other...

 

You need to know a little bit more about how parks operate and set your expectation levels as such. If you want Expedition Everest, go to Walt Disney World.

 

Sorry, but comparing Volcano to EE is just ignorant.

 

Ouch.

 

Ok, this newcomer just took a left hook and a hard jab. Time to regroup.

 

I am in full agreement, and I am not trying to compare apples to oranges. I have failed miserably in trying to get my original thought out clearly.

 

I grew up with PKD. Went there a lot as a kid before Paramount took over, and went there many times as an adult after the Paramount take over. It was a great family amusement park in the beginning – clean, safe, and fun. But it started falling behind the times, and attendance and revenue started dropping. Enter Paramount – they took over the park and pumped new life into the place. But the park changed as a result, and from my perspective, not for the positive (not talking about the quality of the rides, please).

 

Let me try to put it into another point of view. Look at any small regional park that is still family oriented. A park that has maybe one or two large coasters, a bunch of flat rides, and not much else. This park does ok, but it is not a big money maker. Along comes a large corporation and buys the park. Now they have three options. First, do nothing and keep everything as is. Not a good business choice since the large corporation would not make any profit, or recoup their initial investment. Second, improve the park but keep the family as the focus. The problem with this choice is that they would be directly competing with the destination parks, like Disney, and have little chance for making a decent profit. Third, improve the park but change the focus and make it a thrill ride rich environment. Add new coasters, new shows, and new thrills. Draw in a younger crowd who can’t get these kind of rides at destination resort. But the problem is economics – coasters cost money. So they have to work with what they have to keep the initial outlay down so that the rate of return is higher. Anyone who has ever played Roller Coaster Tycoon has had to make the same choices.

 

That’s what Paramount did at Kings Dominion – they took the third choice. In 1993 when Paramount purchased Kings Dominion, the park had 5 large coasters. Since then they’ve added 6 large coasters, several thrill rides, and doubled the size of the water park. Their target audience is now primarily the younger thrill seeking crowd. Families are still targeted, but it appears they’ve taken a back seat to the younger set.

 

In order to do all of this economically, the park had to make do with what was at hand. Volcano was built in and around an existing mountain that was undersized, but would have cost a ton to be rebuilt. The addition of the Hurler interfered with the steam train, so the train was removed (and as an added bonus saved the park maintenance money). The lake was filled in because it was cheaper than clearing land in the old safari. (Note – yes, I know, the lake was filled in prior to the Paramount take over. Work with me, please.)

 

But where did this leave the park as a whole? Was this choice the best one?

 

On one hand, PKD is one of the best regional parks, and has an awesome assortment of rides. Four launched coasters (including the first launched SLC, the first air launched coaster, and one of the first launched steel inverted coasters), three wooden coasters, and the only Mack bobsled coaster in the US. The water park has been doubled in size, and is one of the largest in the mid-Atlantic.

 

But on the other hand the park has a disjointed feel. The original lands have somehow been blended, and rides seem to be placed wherever they fit. The park has a large tract of land south of the Rebel Yell, Hurler, and Grizzly (site of the old safari), but access is restricted by those coasters. The majority of the patrons tend to be the younger, rougher crowd – as I said in an earlier post, if can get a little rough at times.

 

Bottom line – the park made money. Lots of it. Hey, the CFI buyout of all Paramount parks was $1.24 billion! All of their hard work paid off, as far as we know.

 

In their quest to make money, Paramount (in my opinion) took a road that led the park away from its family roots and feel. I’ve always associated Cedar Fair with traditional family style parks, and this post was started with the question – will CFI try to swing PKD back to being a family park, or will it continue to build PKD up as a showcase for coasters?

 

Finally – what would you do? Sacrifice a small family park to make more money? Or stay true to your roots?

 

That’s it, plain and simple. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Thank you reading my small novel.

[jarmor]

Finally – what would you do? Sacrifice a small family park to make more money? Or stay true to your roots?

 

Is that a trick question lol lol. You are talking about businesses which are for profit. Thats like saying make more money and piss off .01% of the locals who cant realize that its not 1990 anymore or get trampled in a race of the big dogs.

 

Jarvis "you cant bring a knife to a gun fight and expect to win " Morant

[Wes]

In their quest to make money, Paramount (in my opinion) took a road that led the park away from its family roots and feel. I’ve always associated Cedar Fair with traditional family style parks, and this post was started with the question – will CFI try to swing PKD back to being a family park, or will it continue to build PKD up as a showcase for coasters?

 

Cedar Fair will only make the park even more disjointed. It's not going to get any better, unless you're a fan of mediocre B&M's.

[speedracer]

Expect the Paramount parks to get plenty of trash cans, wide open spaces with bright concrete and anything from your childhood to be removed.

 

Just described PGA to a T. Why I'm not worried about CF taking over, Paramount already long ago strip-mined what was left of the old Marriott park, not much left to ruin. I'm all for progress as long as it's an improvement, problem was many of Paramounts "improvements" at PGA were questionable and of far less quality than the classic rides and well done theming they replaced.

[CGM]

When I visited PGA, I liked the park very much. It had a pleasant atmosphere and lots of shade. It suffered from none of the traits listed above.

 

However, that was back in 1999 so either my memory fails me or the park atmosphere has since been destroyed. Looking on RCDB I think that that's probably the case.

 

It seems that rides have simply been thrown up, most of them clones at a rapid pace with no regard to the surroundings at all.

 

But anyway, who knows, maybe Cedar Fair will improve the Paramount parks. In fact I'd say that cedar Fair have already started making the right moves in terms of selling and altering rides that are no longer up to the job. They may not be into theming but you can't reallly say that Paramount Parks are that well themed anyway.

 

Dorney Park and Valleyfair! don't look to be too bad in terms of surroundings and it's hardly as if the parks will go through an instant transformation. So I'd say wait until Cedar Fair actually does do something to the parks before criticising them

[redfoot12]

...I can only wonder how much longer the Treasure Cave will exist at PKD.

 

 

Bring back Yogi's Cave...

[Sir Clinksalot]

Well, CFI did wonders for Knott's ... so why not Paramount.

[Holtskee]

Pretty fun stuff to look at, but I started noticing how much Paramount has destroyed a beautiful park in the name of adding more bang for the almighty buck.

 

It's not just Kings Dominion/Paramount.

 

Putting Busch Gardens aside, ALL of the regional theme parks from the 60s and 70s have changed. As ownership of a park bounces over the years, each new party that takes over has a different vision for what the park should be. It works like that for any business... (We can't forget that theme parks are a business)

 

That said, what the industry values as a whole is different these days - unfortunately, "the experience" (theming, atmosphere, etc) is no longer considered to be important at most parks.

 

Of course now nearly all of these parks have 10 + roller coasters, so I suppose the change in direction has actually been an advantage to coaster enthusiasts.