jamessanders Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Can someone tell me why some parks only run one train on their popular coasters? I've heard that SFMM are serial offenders. This doesn't make any sense to me - once the coaster is built and the trains paid for, why not use the asset to its full capacity? I can only think of positive effects that running two (or more) trains would have; lines would be shorter and move faster and guests could get through more rides during their time at the park = happy guests that return to the park and spread good word of mouth. Running extra trains wouldn't be more costly, would it? It's not like they use fuel or anything that costs. The only reason I can think of is that the park might need more ride operators, which would obviously cost more. Any explanations would be welcome... On average, how many trains do the big parks run on their popular rides? ADMIN EDIT: Moved to Donkeys forum, it didn't seem like it belinged in 'Ask Alvey' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twister II Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Well it depends on how "busy" the op's are on their cell phones. Really though, running more trains may cast the park an ultimate price. I know for a fact, on Twister II at SFEG, the ride crew was asked to run less trains last season. Mostly because the high constant rate of the trains and weight on the structure pretty much destroys itself. For steel coaster it could be something more in depth. Like the ride crew just wouldn't be able to move and work that fast with out stacking trains. Just like on TTD. If all 6 trains run, trains start stacking because the crews can't unload, load, and dispatch quick enough. That crew moves pretty fast too! Another reason, but less likely, would be that some trains are set to run certain days of the week only. Or rehab time for that train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamessanders Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 TTD has six trains?! Are there any pictures of when all six are running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twister II Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 ^ It would be quite hard to fit ALL 6 trains in one picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdillaman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 The first time i went on TTD they had 5 of the six running, but I've never seen all 6. -James Dillaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exmouse Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I was under the impression it's all about cost savings. There would be less wear and tear to the trains and the track. Using 1 train instead of 2 doesn't mean that that 1 train will do twice as many circuits in a day. Sure there would be an increase but not double. So this would mean that in total the coaster runs less per day. Apart from the savings in terms of wear to the trains and track you also save on electricity as the lift hill isn't under load as much or if launched then again there must be a large saving. OK that one train is getting more wear in a day than normal but if you alternate trains then overall they would each suffer less wear. Plus with longer queues it means people are trapped standing in line and not sitting on a ride. Which again means less wear and tear as overall all the rides are used less. For example if every ride has a 1 hour queue during an 8 hour day you'd only do 8 rides. But if running rides at maximum capacity reduced queues to 30 minutes then you could do 16 rides. As a result you have selfishly caused not only wear to the rides but also harm to the shareholders pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I've seen 6 trains run on TTD. But they rarely run it that way. The 6th train doesn't add any capacity. All you're doing is adding a train waiting to be loaded. TTD's capacity is just based on getting a train to launch once the circuit is free. And even with 5 trains the ops have no problem doing that. So adding the 6th train just backs them up without adding any benefit. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Six Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 At Magic , we usually do add on another train (if there already isn't two) if it seems to be getting crowded. But in order to add a train, you need to call a supervisor and that supervisor must be present while adding a train. Mechanics are there also, they're the ones that do the actual 'adding' of the train. Come to think of it, most of the coasters at Magic are running two trains. Shocking. _six Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It's a balancing act between managing the crowds and being cost effective with the parts and maintenance that the ride requires. On quieter days, a lot of parks will only run a single train on rides which can handle more trains, because it's not cost effective to run at full capacity all the time. But if the crowds warrant more trains, usually the park will step up and add a train onto the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jynx242 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I've also found that on some of the older coasters (like Ninja or Mindbender at SFoG) they might be working on the other train / trains and unable to run them at all. Last Easter when I was at SFoG, everything was running more than one train except for Ninja - which ended up having the longest wait of the day (20 minutes.) The other train was not sitting on the transfer track, or anywhere to be seen. I was told that it was being worked on. I can't believe that I waited longer to get the crap beat out of me on Ninja than I did for the delicious airtime that is Goliath. david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKI Jizzman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Oddly enough, I havent seen any one train operations at PKI. (besides Face/Off and the kiddie coaster) I would think that one train operations wouldnt cost more money, but yes, wearing out the structure more, or putting more stress on it. But it should be able to handle it, for they should be able to run two or three trains at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdillaman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Plus with longer queues it means people are trapped standing in line and not sitting on a ride. Which again means less wear and tear as overall all the rides are used less. For example if every ride has a 1 hour queue during an 8 hour day you'd only do 8 rides. But if running rides at maximum capacity reduced queues to 30 minutes then you could do 16 rides. As a result you have selfishly caused not only wear to the rides but also harm to the shareholders pockets. ??? Unhappy guests who wait longer for rides is good for the shareholders? Happy guests who don't have to wait as long for the rides and have more time to spend money on food and souvenirs are bad for the shareholders? I'm sorry, but at PKI the emphasis was always on capacity, and I know cedar fair is the same way. It has nothing to do with cost saving with a well-run park, it's all about keeping people happy so they'll come back. -James Dillaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterFanatic Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Happy guests who don't have to wait as long for the rides and have more time to spend money on food and souvenirs are bad for the shareholders? Amen. Not only will they be happy, but they will come back! The only reason a coaster (full circuit) should be operating one train is if the line is under 15 minutes. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 As a result you have selfishly caused not only wear to the rides but also harm to the shareholders pockets. How selfish of us to want a better return for the money we are paying the park. We should happily wait hours longer so that the shareholders can earn more pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdillaman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 The only reason a coaster (full circuit) should be operating one train is if the line is under 15 minutes. Period. And when I worked on Beast, we always ran 3 trains if we could, even if the line was 5 minutes long, because with one train the line would quickly grow, as there would be almost 6 minutes between dispatches. A pet-peeve of mine (seen often at kentucky kingdow) is when a longer coaster is running only one train when the wait is 10-15 minutes on a weekend, when they know the crowd will pick up later. When the crowds DO pick up, they have to close the ride to add the second train. grrrrrr... -James Dillaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I can't agree with anyone who thinks that running 1 train during a busy day is good business practice, especially for the reasons that were mentioned so far in this thread. The job of the park is to make their customers happy and satisfied. The customers are not satisfied while standing in line, waiting extra time for a ride. I don't really care about the wear and tear. If it is really that big of a concern, then ok, run the coaster to the fullest capacity that you can. If that is one train, then it is one train. However, there better be a lot of work going into that ride so that it can be running at a higher capacity very, very soon. Every effort needs to be made to get all rides in a park up to capacity expectation. I have issues with one train, and to tell you the truth, running 3 trains on a regular coaster. I just don't see how running 3 trains increases capacity, as there is always a train sitting on the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I have issues with one train, and to tell you the truth, running 3 trains on a regular coaster. I just don't see how running 3 trains increases capacity, as there is always a train sitting on the brakes. Depends on the ride really. Look at Raptor and Magnum at Cedar Point for instance. Both run 3 trains, and will rarely have a train sitting on a brake run very long. It seems like a train is constantly being loaded and dispatched. Going down to 2 trains would make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxman47 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Nitro at SFgadv makes good use of three train operation (when they actually decide to use all 3). They actually had an excellent crew on Nitro this year, and when running 3 trains it would eat through lines like nothing I've ever seen. Basically as soon as one train was off the lift, the next rolled out of the station within 10 seconds. This is a long ride so going from 2 to 3 train operation makes a HUGE difference. I could see for shorter rides that the difference may not be as noticeable, but even if you could dispatch each train 10 or 15 seconds quicker, it adds up quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdillaman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I have issues with one train, and to tell you the truth, running 3 trains on a regular coaster. I just don't see how running 3 trains increases capacity, as there is always a train sitting on the brakes. Depends on the ride really. Look at Raptor and Magnum at Cedar Point for instance. Both run 3 trains, and will rarely have a train sitting on a brake run very long. It seems like a train is constantly being loaded and dispatched. Going down to 2 trains would make a difference. And, as I mentioned. the Beast at PKI sucks when it's only running 2 trains. People complain about waiting, as it's like 2 minutes between trains. With only one train... forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Nitro at SFgadv makes good use of three train operation (when they actually decide to use all 3). They actually had an excellent crew on Nitro this year, and when running 3 trains it would eat through lines like nothing I've ever seen. Basically as soon as one train was off the lift, the next rolled out of the station within 10 seconds. This is a long ride so going from 2 to 3 train operation makes a HUGE difference. I could see for shorter rides that the difference may not be as noticeable, but even if you could dispatch each train 10 or 15 seconds quicker, it adds up quickly. I was actually thinking of Nitro when I made that 3 train statement. I don't think that Nitro runs that effeciently with 3 trains. I feel there is always a train on the blocks for at least a minute, if not more. I could really run well with 3 trains, but within the past couple years of me going to the park regularly, I haven't seen it. And yes, it does depend on the ride. In my experiences though, I have seen 3 train operation be a little poor. In some cases, it does depend on the ride. Like I said though, from what I have seen, it hasn't made a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niiicolaaah Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I'm still amazed that TTD can run 6 trains.... call me a newbie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdillaman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Ok, you're a newbie. -James Dillaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niiicolaaah Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Thanks! But I still don't understand how it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 ^ It's not all that surprising when you see it in person. 2x load 2x unload 2x launch and staging Then just cycle around constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niiicolaaah Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Ok yeah. I haven't been to CP since the good old days of Mantis' debut year. I guess these newfangled coaster creations are too much for me to comprehend at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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