WDW 2007 Rates and Packages are out

[Jew]

At least Cedar Fair understands what I'm saying...concrete parks, or not.

 

They sure have a lot to show for reducing their prices.

 

They are also in a different market. Cedar Fair parks are regional theme parks. They are the ones truly competing with sporting events, movies, concerts, clubs, family fun centers, etc. Disney is competing with other vacation destinations like cruises, popular tourist cities, etc. They both price accordingly for their markets.

[okinawaboy11]

At least Cedar Fair understands what I'm saying...concrete parks, or not.

 

They sure have a lot to show for reducing their prices.

 

They are also in a different market. Cedar Fair parks are regional theme parks. They are the ones truly competing with sporting events, movies, concerts, clubs, family fun centers, etc. Disney is competing with other vacation destinations like cruises, popular tourist cities, etc. They both price accordingly for their markets.

 

Cedar Point (Not the rest of the Cedar Fair chain), is starting to try and target that BIG destination crowd. I've seen a Cedar Point commercial a few times here and Maryland. And I have multiple friends (Not enthusiasts) that have heard about Cedar Point, or have been.

[BeemerBoy]

Joey, trust me, I took business 101 too. And to everyone else ready to pounce on me, remember it's really easy to take the "it's just business" side of the argument. I guess gas prices are totally understandale and reasonable too, right? It's just business afterall. $5.00/gallon? Sure, no problem....I'll gladly pay that. $100 for a day at the Magic Kingdom? Sure, that sounds reasonable.

 

If I'm the only one willing to stand up and call BS on Disney's business structure, then fine by me. Sometimes it's simply about a moral and ethical way of doing business rather than the rich getting richer. I guess Disney needs to have something to support the recent huge failures of "Cars" and "POTC" right? Maybe if they didn't have their hand in everything under the sun, then prices wouldn't need to be at "Ludacrous Speed."

 

I fully understand CF's position in the industry. I also understand that in the same year that they made a monstrous acquisition, they also lowered prices. That's not necessarily the traditional blueprint to winning business strategies now is it? Of course, they may be buttering up the public for sweeping price changes next season. But as of now, their move, regardless of whether they compete directly with Disney or not, was a big middle finger to the industry as a whole, IMHO.

 

 

Scott "proudly not part of the herd" B.

[TheGreatOne]

I fully understand CF's position in the industry. I also understand that in the same year that they made a monstrous acquisition, they also lowered prices. That's not necessarily the traditional blueprint to winning business strategies now is it? Of course, they may be buttering up the public for sweeping price changes next season. But as of now, their move, regardless of whether they compete directly with Disney or not, was a big middle finger to the industry as a whole, IMHO.

 

Scott "proudly not part of the herd" B.

 

Cedar Point announced they were looking into cutting back prices back in September of 2005. (Source: http://www.thrillnetwork.com/stories_view.php/1219/cedar_point_lowering_ticket_prices.html) This was well in advance of Cedar Fair purchasing Paramount Parks.

 

The price drops at Cedar Point were directly attributed to declining attendance (3.2 mil in 2004, down 3%. 3.1 mil in 2005, down 3%) by Dick Kinzel. He was even quoted in saying they had outpriced their market. It wasn't a big middle finger, it was necessary because their numbers and revenue were declining.

 

Disney, on the other hand, has obviously not outpriced their market.

 

Magic Kingdom attendance:

2003: 14 million

2004: 15.2 million (up 8%)

2005: 16.2 million (up 6.5%)

 

EPCOT attendance:

2003: 8.6 million (up 4%)

2004: 9.4 million (up 9%)

2005: 9.9 million (up 5.5%)

 

Disney-MGM Studios

2003: 7.8 million

2004: 8.3 million (up 5%)

2005: 8.6 million (up 6%)

 

Animal Kingdom:

2003: 7.3 million

2004: 7.8 million (up 7%)

2005: 8.2 million (up 5%)

 

Disney has raised admission prices $15 since 2003 and has continually posted some of the theme parks industry's biggest attendance gains. They have not outpriced their market. They are a global vacation destination. Not one Cedar Fair park is that. Cedar Point may be the most visible/recognizable regional theme park resort in the world, but it does not have the global staying power of Disney.

 

For those who save money by spending vacations other places besides Disney, good for you (seriously). But remember, you are in the very, very small minority. Just because you have friends/family that do the same thing does not make it the majority.

 

Cedar Point (Not the rest of the Cedar Fair chain), is starting to try and target that BIG destination crowd. I've seen a Cedar Point commercial a few times here and Maryland. And I have multiple friends (Not enthusiasts) that have heard about Cedar Point, or have been.

 

They are increasing their marketing, trying to entice people to try something new. Look at Cedar Point compared to Disney, though. Cedar Point has three (I believe) hotels, a campground, one amusement park and one waterpark. That's all there is to do there. Walt Disney World has over a dozen hotels, four theme parks, three water parks, golf course, Downtown Disney, etc. For most people, Disney World is a complete vacation destination. You could spend a week there easy and never do the same thing twice. You can't do that at Cedar Point in three days.

 

-Bryan "the numbers simply don't lie" Wood

[BeemerBoy]

Believe what you will.

[Jew]

The oil industry? That's unethical business. That's "haha,we got everyone by the balls and there is nothing they can do about it."

 

Disney? Making it cheaper for their core market to visit at the expense of a few bucks for one day visitors? That doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me. Especially given the ever increasing costs of operating a theme park.

[weatherkid17]

70 dollars is outrageous for disney world, or for that fact any theme park. Especially Disney, its not really THAT great. I dont see why people will still pay 70 dollars to go to a theme park.

[SharkTums]

With exchange rates some parks in the UK and Japan work out to almost $70!

 

Seriously though, let's keep this civil. It's all about what you're willing to pay money for. Some people are willing to shell out lots of cash for Parks, some are not. Let's be good!

[mr_teisco_delrey]

I fully understand CF's position in the industry. I also understand that in the same year that they made a monstrous acquisition, they also lowered prices. That's not necessarily the traditional blueprint to winning business strategies now is it? Of course, they may be buttering up the public for sweeping price changes next season. But as of now, their move, regardless of whether they compete directly with Disney or not, was a big middle finger to the industry as a whole, IMHO.

 

Scott "proudly not part of the herd" B.

 

Cedar Point announced they were looking into cutting back prices back in September of 2005. (Source: http://www.thrillnetwork.com/stories_view.php/1219/cedar_point_lowering_ticket_prices.html) This was well in advance of Cedar Fair purchasing Paramount Parks.

 

The price drops at Cedar Point were directly attributed to declining attendance (3.2 mil in 2004, down 3%. 3.1 mil in 2005, down 3%) by Dick Kinzel. He was even quoted in saying they had outpriced their market. It wasn't a big middle finger, it was necessary because their numbers and revenue were declining.

 

Disney, on the other hand, has obviously not outpriced their market.

 

Magic Kingdom attendance:

2003: 14 million

2004: 15.2 million (up 8%)

2005: 16.2 million (up 6.5%)

 

EPCOT attendance:

2003: 8.6 million (up 4%)

2004: 9.4 million (up 9%)

2005: 9.9 million (up 5.5%)

 

Disney-MGM Studios

2003: 7.8 million

2004: 8.3 million (up 5%)

2005: 8.6 million (up 6%)

 

Animal Kingdom:

2003: 7.3 million

2004: 7.8 million (up 7%)

2005: 8.2 million (up 5%)

 

Disney has raised admission prices $15 since 2003 and has continually posted some of the theme parks industry's biggest attendance gains. They have not outpriced their market. They are a global vacation destination. Not one Cedar Fair park is that. Cedar Point may be the most visible/recognizable regional theme park resort in the world, but it does not have the global staying power of Disney.

 

For those who save money by spending vacations other places besides Disney, good for you (seriously). But remember, you are in the very, very small minority. Just because you have friends/family that do the same thing does not make it the majority.

 

Cedar Point (Not the rest of the Cedar Fair chain), is starting to try and target that BIG destination crowd. I've seen a Cedar Point commercial a few times here and Maryland. And I have multiple friends (Not enthusiasts) that have heard about Cedar Point, or have been.

 

They are increasing their marketing, trying to entice people to try something new. Look at Cedar Point compared to Disney, though. Cedar Point has three (I believe) hotels, a campground, one amusement park and one waterpark. That's all there is to do there. Walt Disney World has over a dozen hotels, four theme parks, three water parks, golf course, Downtown Disney, etc. For most people, Disney World is a complete vacation destination. You could spend a week there easy and never do the same thing twice. You can't do that at Cedar Point in three days.

 

-Bryan "the numbers simply don't lie" Wood

 

I wonder how much of that attendance increase was people from overseas taking advantage of favorable exchange rates. Also, with exception of IOA didn't all the Fla parks have an uptick in attendance? If gas prices keep going up, I wonder what attendance will be in 08 and 09?

 

just my $.02

[methylene]

Joey, trust me, I took business 101 too. And to everyone else ready to pounce on me, remember it's really easy to take the "it's just business" side of the argument. I guess gas prices are totally understandale and reasonable too, right? It's just business afterall. $5.00/gallon? Sure, no problem....I'll gladly pay that. $100 for a day at the Magic Kingdom? Sure, that sounds reasonable.

You may have taken Business 101, but you're the one comparing an essential commodity to a luxury purchase.

 

If I'm the only one willing to stand up and call BS on Disney's business structure, then fine by me. Sometimes it's simply about a moral and ethical way of doing business rather than the rich getting richer.

Then please stand up and call BS on the Entire Travel Industry's business structure. It will cost several thousand dollars for ANY week long vacation short of camping at a park. Those who attend WDW for one day without an AP make up maybe (I'm being generous) 1% of their entire clientele so you're arguing over what is essentially a hypothetical situation. Universal and Sea World charge just as much for one day. Before Astroworld closed down one-day tickets were selling for $50 at the gate!

 

I'm failing to see what is immoral or unethical about charging market rates to get in to argueably four of the most entertaining parks in the world, especially when an average 4-7 day vacation drops the daily ticket prices to far below most local amusment parks.

 

If you don't like Disney, that's fine be me. One less person in line in front of me, but please understand this is hardly a Disney phenomenon.

 

Matt

[ParkTrips]

JI guess gas prices are totally understandale and reasonable too, right? It's just business afterall. $5.00/gallon? Sure, no problem....I'll gladly pay that. $100 for a day at the Magic Kingdom? Sure, that sounds reasonable.

Its just a perception of value.

 

I dunno, I'd rather pay my $3 a gallon (or $5, wherever that came from ) to get to work and make my $30/hr than to sit at home and do nothing. I'd rather drop $100 on gas to go to Orlando than sit at home and do nothing. Just me though.

 

I dont see where this is immoral myself... if people are willing to pay, then so be it. Its not like you HAVE to go to Disney or like a pharmaceutical company pricing their drugs far out of reach of those who need it...

[BeemerBoy]

^^ Okay chief, you keep paying the inflated prices and enjoy yourself. I'll be looking for the TRs.

 

^ Joe, you're right. It's a matter of perception. To me, it's overpriced. End of story. But no hard feelings to anyone who can still afford it.

 

 

 

Scott "I will call BS on it then because not all of us have an ER salary" B.

[methylene]

What's an ER salary?

 

Matt

[weatherkid17]

Alright, Cedar Point and Disney are completely different. CP is more teen, thrill rider targeted, Disney is more family targeted. CP works on the basis like a cheap restaraunt that gives you value for your money. You ask yourself how they make money? The answer is that they make only a small profit on one person, but its always crowded, so they can make as much money as a big business that overprices their food. Disney would be the one that overprices their food, but yet they have plenty of people to where they make alot of money. Basic buisness.

[ParkTrips]

^ Joe, you're right. It's a matter of perception. To me, it's overpriced. End of story. But no hard feelings to anyone who can still afford it.

I should be complaining because *I* actually have to pay the gate admission, not you

 

 

- Joe, who is teasing as Im sure Scott knows

[TheGreatOne]

I wonder how much of that attendance increase was people from overseas taking advantage of favorable exchange rates. Also, with exception of IOA didn't all the Fla parks have an uptick in attendance? If gas prices keep going up, I wonder what attendance will be in 08 and 09?

 

just my $.02

 

Over the same time I posted attendance figures for WDW....here are the other biggies.

 

Sea World Orlando

2003: 5.2 mil (up 4%)

2004: 5.6 mil (up 4%)

2005: 5.6 mil (-)

 

Not a bad performance by any means, but marginal gains compared to WDW.

 

Busch Gardens Tampa

2003: 4.3 mil (down 4%)

2004: 4.1 mil (down 5%)

2005: 4.31 mil (up 5.1%)

 

The park really struggled with attendance, needing Sheikra to post a rebound in attendance while hiking prices.

 

Universal:

2003: 6.8 mil (-)

2004: 6.7 mil

2005: 6.1 mil

 

IoA:

2003: 6 mil

2004: 6.3 mil

2005: 5.76 mil

 

As you said, Universal has slumped. IoA did post a nice increase in 2004, but failed to keep the momentum in 2005, with a loss of 500,000 people.

 

Now if you argue to contribute a portion of WDW's big increases to exchange rates, would you not see other decent increases (or at least no losses being posted) at the other biggies?

 

My argument here is a rebuttal of Beemerboy's because he claims "BS on Disney's business structure". However, they've proven to buck the up and down trend of attendance and revenue in our industry. WDW and Holiday World are the only ones who continuously post big growth in the past few years while everyone else has struggled at one point.

 

Neither company did that because of a flawed business structure. For the record, I actually prefer A-B and Herschend parks to Disney...but you absolutely can't argue with the fact of their success.

[dougr]

I can understand these price structures in a trying to extract as much bucks from the sheeple as possible, but this could be a reason why I've never visited WDW.

I have visited DLR, probably because I live on the west coast and it's only 3 days drive.

When I go to SoCal, I can stay at Motel 6 or Red Roof, get a City Pass ($179.95 at Costco works out to $30 a day).

I can use my Six Flags pass at Magic Mountain, plus we can stop at SFMW on the way down. I only pay $14.95 for my child at Knott's, plus if I look around, there's usually a discount somewhere for us adults to get into Knott's cheaper.

So tell me how WDW is a good deal?

[ParkTrips]

If gas prices keep going up, I wonder what attendance will be in 08 and 09?

Well, if you drive from Seattle to Orlando for your family vacation, you would use 209 gallons at 30mpg or a whopping 313 at 20mpg if you choose to take the SUV. Even at an entire dollar increase, we're not talking much of an increase in the trip's budget. (this of course assuming a lot of things, such as someone being dumb enough to drive from Seattle just to save money)

 

I hate hearing about the gas prices.

[Three]

I totally didn't understand Cypress Gardens' success until I took a second look at the other big FL park's rates. I'm not used to buying single day admission in these parts, and $67 is way higher than I would've guessed.

 

And now, suddenly I get why somebody might choose to go to Cypress Gardens for a year for seven bucks less than going to a single Disney park for a day.

 

Guess I won't be hitting AK for Everest any time soon. That's not the pocket change I'm used to spending on out of state parks.

[disneyfan1313]

I totally didn't understand Cypress Gardens' success until I took a second look at the other big FL park's rates. I'm not used to buying single day admission in these parts, and $67 is way higher than I would've guessed.

 

And now, suddenly I get why somebody might choose to go to Cypress Gardens for a year for seven bucks less than going to a single Disney park for a day.

 

Guess I won't be hitting AK for Everest any time soon. That's not the pocket change I'm used to spending on out of state parks.

 

Cypress Gardens charges so little because it HAS to. Attendance there when there is not a concert going on is very low (which ...from what I have heard is why they have not started building the starliner or fixed a lot of their rides).

 

Plus Cypress Gardens is not marketed to the average tourist - Uni has a hard enough time getting people down I-4 to a world-class theme park... who the heck is going to drive through the backwoods of Polk county for some Carny Rides...

[Three]

Exactly. That's exactly my point. Disney prices now are insane. Justifiable perhaps for those coming from out of state to visit the happiest Floridian place on Earth (especially since these folks don't typically buy just a single day ticket anyway) -- but it's getting beyond affordable for just a day trip for locals. Sixty seven dollars (plus parking, food, etc.) is a hell of a lot to spend on a whim. And that's where Cypress Gardens ekes a living. Local cash, not tourism.

 

I would be interested in seeing statistics on what percentage of each parks' profits come from locals vs. out-of-staters vs. foreigners. It would shed some light on how far Annheiser-Busch and Universal should keep their prices from Disney's.

[ltp74]

My parents retired about an hour away from WDW and I was planning on hitting a park or two every time I go down to visit and it seems the cheapest way is to get the 10 day park hopper with no expiration for $443 so it comes out to $44.30 each day which isnt bad if you can afford the $443 upfront. When I was down there last winter Universal had a deal at the gate both parks for $75 so don't be shocked if the other Florida parks go hard after the day trippers with great deals.

[ScOtT k]

Beemer boy, why not attack universal, why not attack Sea world, why not attack busch gardens tampa?

 

These 3 parks are just a few dollars cheaper than disney. It is foolish to call out just disney, when there are other parks doing the same thing.

[BeemerBoy]

Beemer boy, why not attack universal, why not attack Sea world, why not attack busch gardens tampa?

 

These 3 parks are just a few dollars cheaper than disney. It is foolish to call out just disney, when there are other parks doing the same thing.

 

And I'm not excluding any other chain either. Many of them are equally guilty in my mind,

 

It appears I did. And the attack was directed towards Disney primarily because:

 

A. They are the market leader.

B. That's where the thread started.

 

Now I'm officially done with this one.

 

Scott "take the time to read it all before you call me out, thanks" B.

[disneyfan1313]

Exactly. That's exactly my point. Disney prices now are insane. Justifiable perhaps for those coming from out of state to visit the happiest Floridian place on Earth (especially since these folks don't typically buy just a single day ticket anyway) -- but it's getting beyond affordable for just a day trip for locals. Sixty seven dollars (plus parking, food, etc.) is a hell of a lot to spend on a whim. And that's where Cypress Gardens ekes a living. Local cash, not tourism.

 

I would be interested in seeing statistics on what percentage of each parks' profits come from locals vs. out-of-staters vs. foreigners. It would shed some light on how far Annheiser-Busch and Universal should keep their prices from Disney's.

 

The local market is not where you make the money. Locals don't spend the night, are more likely to bring food, are less likely to buy merchandise. Why on earth would you want to price to attract locals?