The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[socalMAN123]

Just to comment on how good SFMM has been lately (as in the park management), today we recieved a phone call from them asking us if we were going to renew our passes. Yes, a phone call. This is better than any other park I've ever bought a pass for. Disneyland just sent out a flyer telling you to renew your pass and Knotts doesn't even do anything. I just noticed this little thing and thought it was a nice little thing they did to remind us.

---Brent

[Purplepills]

^Personally that would have annoyed me, its selling you something over the phone. Granted its something you've bought previously, but I still hate getting phonecalls from people trying to sell me stuff, regardless of whether I want it or not.

 

A reminder in the post would have suited me better. Personal opinion I know, but thats my take on it.

[GoogleMickey]

I know sprinkles don't get ride a lot of the rides closed at magic mountain, but a good amount of rain will get all of them closed. I have seen it happen before. Viper tends to not catch the chain if it rains hard enough, and X well it did it's own interesting break down during the rain last time I was there. As for the other rides they close them down because the rain "hurts" at high speeds.

[alexinla]

I was on Goliath in pouring rain and yeah, it hurts like crazy, but the ride was running

[lapseofreason]

I think the coaster that hurt the most in the rain for me was Villain at Geauga Lake. Ouch. But yeah, at SFMM, Goliath was probably the worst for me as well.

[AllenA07]

It takes a huge amount of rain before SFMM will close for the day. The reason being, as I understand it, is that once the park is open it costs much more to close it then just to let it operate for the rest of the day. I remember working shows there is very heavy rain, and always being surprised just how much rain they would leave the park open in.

[haiderodes]

I have only been there once when there was any significant rain...November 1997. Superman had a 4 hour line (all the way down "suicide hill") and then it closed once the rain started. The rain lasted about 2 hours with most of the rides closed, but then most of them (excluding Superman) opened back up with sporatic showers the rest of the night.

 

I have a feeling they didnt close the park because it was a Saturday during Veteran's Weekend and the park was packed because of a spirit rally at the park.

[Jew]

S:TE has to close in the rain because it will hydroplane. Unless there is lightning, the other rides will remain open (albeit with 1 train) until rain causes them to consistently overshoot the station (which happens at RRv, Goldrusher, and Goliath).

 

At least that's how I remember it from working there.

[haiderodes]

S:TE has to close in the rain because it will hydroplane. Unless there is lightning, the other rides will remain open (albeit with 1 train) until rain causes them to consistently overshoot the station (which happens at RRv, Goldrusher, and Goliath).

 

At least that's how I remember it from working there.

 

Isn't that why newer B&M's have horizontally-oriented pinch style drive wheels to eliminate the chances of an overshoot? At least I remember reading that somewhere. Even on a dry day I've noticed that Goliath (even though its not a B&M) trains "shake" back and forth in the station when stopping...or maybe its my imagination.

[PURE]

^The Goliath train does move in the station sometimes. But its shaking with the rest of the track.

 

^^I don't think Superman hydroplanes in the rain, I'm not 100% but I've never heard of that, nor do I understand how that could happen.

 

It has closed because fog was blocking the tower from the station though, if ride ops can't see the tower the ride can't run.

[iZak]

S:TE has to close in the rain because it will hydroplane. Unless there is lightning, the other rides will remain open (albeit with 1 train) until rain causes them to consistently overshoot the station (which happens at RRv, Goldrusher, and Goliath).

 

At least that's how I remember it from working there.

 

Let's not forget S:TE overshooting too...That was always fun.

 

Oh yeah...

 

^ It does hydroplane, sort of...Because the wheels are wet, it doesn't provide enough traction between the track and the car to cause enough friction. On top of that, the brake fin also gets wet, and the water acts as a lube (so to speak) preventing the station brake to not latch on to the car properly.

 

All of this leads to a very nice overshoot into the uncovered area behind the station.

 

Good times. I always loved safety rides on S:TE in the rain. But, then again, I also loved Flashback. Maybe I'm a masochist?

[ebl]

^ We'll just say you're "adventurous..."

 

Eric

[iZak]

^ True. In almost every sense of the word...

[PURE]

^^^The reason I'm questioning that is because that brake is used only to hold the car still when its loading or unloading. Otherwise the car is acted on only by the magnets, which slow it down, speed it up or bring it to a stop. They control its speed independently, regardless if the wheels have traction or not.

 

The reason the car passes the station into the uncovered area is a magnet shut down. When the timing of the LSM's isn't just right it just shuts off and the car rolls independently and its only option is to stop back there. It has nothing to do with the brake in the station.

 

So what I'm saying is the water could mess up the computer if the car is supposed to be somewhere but the rain effects it and its not. That would cause a shut down forcing the car to overshoot behind the station. That makes sense.

 

But water rarely, almost never, acts as lubricant on roller coaster brakes. They're designed that way, they clamp down so strong. There'd have to be A LOT of water to effect them. Otherwise every time it rained they'd have to shut down all the rides, because none of the brakes would work!

[Tmcdllr]

^So when it does overshoot the station what stops it back there...mechanical brakes, right? And what happens when its coming back down the tower and the power goes out? I dont quite remember how the LSMs work on that ride. Does the car stop mid-track or does it coast until it hits the station holding brake? Maybe the same would apply for an E-stop situation?

[haiderodes]

^During normal operation, from my experiences, it slows down and continues to coast into the station. It doesn't stop until its in the loading/unloading position.

 

If I recall correctly, they didnt always have a station brake for Superman. That was added after a couple of years to hold the train in position...right? Didn't they also add a winch at the same time for when they'd have to tow the car back into the station?

 

As for what's behind the "curtain"...I always assumed it was a set of permanent magnets like they have rusting away at the top of the tower. Granted I have never seen that end of the track personally, it would make sense considering theres not enough room for a set of standard mechanical brakes to work.

[Top Thrill Dragster]

As for what's behind the "curtain"...I always assumed it was a set of permanent magnets like they have rusting away at the top of the tower. Granted I have never seen that end of the track personally, it would make sense considering theres not enough room for a set of standard mechanical brakes to work.

 

Yep, its a long set of magnetic brakes. At the 2006 ACE day, I rode Super Man after a slight rain and the ride over shot the station and came to a silent and fast stop. Flying back through that curtain at 30+mph was quite an unexpected experience, because I always thought that the LIMS would slow the car down no matter what happened. They had to get the mechanic to use a cable winch to pull the car back to the station.

[Tmcdllr]

Cool thanks for the information. It does make sense to have magnetic brakes back there...they would work even without power.

[iZak]

^^^The reason I'm questioning that is because that brake is used only to hold the car still when its loading or unloading. Otherwise the car is acted on only by the magnets, which slow it down, speed it up or bring it to a stop. They control its speed independently, regardless if the wheels have traction or not.

 

Yes, and I never said that they didn't.

 

The reason the car passes the station into the uncovered area is a magnet shut down. When the timing of the LSM's isn't just right it just shuts off and the car rolls independently and its only option is to stop back there. It has nothing to do with the brake in the station.

 

There are a lot of factors that play into an overshoot or an undershoot. LSM timing is just one of them. Also, the brake does have a lot to do with it. I've seen the car a couple of times just decide to move on its own, even though the brake was engaged and the car/ride was acting normal.

 

So what I'm saying is the water could mess up the computer if the car is supposed to be somewhere but the rain effects it and its not. That would cause a shut down forcing the car to overshoot behind the station. That makes sense.

 

And such is the same for a lot of coasters.

 

But water rarely, almost never, acts as lubricant on roller coaster brakes. They're designed that way, they clamp down so strong. There'd have to be A LOT of water to effect them. Otherwise every time it rained they'd have to shut down all the rides, because none of the brakes would work!

 

I think there's a reason why there it's only one-train operations when it rains...Oh yeah, because the trains would actually bump into each other because they could not stop.

 

Have you ever driven your car really fast in the rain, and then had to stop suddenly? It doesn't take the same amount of time and distance as if you had to stop the same way as when it's raining. Why? Water makes things slick. Making a surface slick causes wheels to lose traction with the surface they are on.

 

Water + Metal Track + Oil/Lube/Grease + Speed = Overshoot

 

Going by that logic, you can see where I'm coming from.

 

Having been an operator at S:TE for over two years (actually I think it was 3...I had to take the certification test 3 times), and having trained a lot of people up there, I've seen a lot of crazy stuff happen on that ride. Like the summers when we had to ice the LSMs because they kept shutting down because of the heat, or not having the "emergency stop" not do anything to the ride. There are a lot of stories I have and I have heard over the years.

 

I hope that helps...

[PURE]

On top of that, the brake fin also gets wet, and the water acts as a lube (so to speak) preventing the station brake to not latch on to the car properly.

 

All of this leads to a very nice overshoot into the uncovered area behind the station.

 

^^^The reason I'm questioning that is because that brake is used only to hold the car still when its loading or unloading. Otherwise the car is acted on only by the magnets, which slow it down, speed it up or bring it to a stop. They control its speed independently, regardless if the wheels have traction or not.

 

Yes, and I never said that they didn't.

 

Of course you never said that they didn't, because I was the one that said that first. But you did say the station brake is cause for an overshoot into the brakes behind the station and that's where you're wrong. The station brake on Superman has nothing to do with the car going to the E-brakes in the back. The LSM shutdown is the only reason the car would head behind the station into those brakes.

 

The reason the car passes the station into the uncovered area is a magnet shut down. When the timing of the LSM's isn't just right it just shuts off and the car rolls independently and its only option is to stop back there. It has nothing to do with the brake in the station.

 

There are a lot of factors that play into an overshoot or an undershoot. LSM timing is just one of them. Also, the brake does have a lot to do with it. I've seen the car a couple of times just decide to move on its own, even though the brake was engaged and the car/ride was acting normal.

 

Again, the only reason the car would ever roll back there is because of an LSM shutdown. That's the ONLY reason the car rides back there. It is possible to have an overshoot or undershoot in the station (which would only be an undershoot or overshoot of about a foot) if the brake in the station didn't work properly, which can shut the ride down. But that happens whether its raining or not.

 

 

So what I'm saying is the water could mess up the computer if the car is supposed to be somewhere but the rain effects it and its not. That would cause a shut down forcing the car to overshoot behind the station. That makes sense.

 

And such is the same for a lot of coasters.

 

It's not the same for a lot of coasters. Superman is one of the only rides that the computers follow all the way to the end of the launch track and shut down if its not following the LSM's to the split second. The computer problem would be the cause for a shutdown effected by the rain messing up the speed of the car (which in this case would be slowing the car down if it hydroplanes). But again, that happens whether its raining or not, however I'm sure the water doesn't help.

 

But water rarely, almost never, acts as lubricant on roller coaster brakes. They're designed that way, they clamp down so strong. There'd have to be A LOT of water to effect them. Otherwise every time it rained they'd have to shut down all the rides, because none of the brakes would work!

 

I think there's a reason why there it's only one-train operations when it rains...Oh yeah, because the trains would actually bump into each other because they could not stop.

 

Have you ever driven your car really fast in the rain, and then had to stop suddenly? It doesn't take the same amount of time and distance as if you had to stop the same way as when it's raining. Why? Water makes things slick. Making a surface slick causes wheels to lose traction with the surface they are on.

 

Water + Metal Track + Oil/Lube/Grease + Speed = Overshoot

 

Going by that logic, you can see where I'm coming from.

 

Cars in the rain and coasters in rain on track are two different things. Cars can't stop in the rain because the wheels don't have traction on the road and its their only way to stop. It's different for roller coasters. It doesn't matter if the wheels have traction on the track or not, the brake pads underneath the train will stop the train at the brakes anyway.

 

They go to one train operation as a standard safety precaution, but the ride will operate fine with 2 trains. If anybody's been to a park on a rainy day you'll still see two trains still in operation at some rides. It's not like it rains and all of a sudden the brakes don't work and the trains won't stop and there's going to be a major disaster. You're little water + grease equation doesn't mean squat. Brake pads are completely independent from metal track and oil/lube/grease. Even if the brake fins are wet, they're dry enough to be efficient after they're clamped on by the first brake or 2.

 

You were a ride operator, much ill-informed second hand information. I was a mechanic at the park, I asked a lot of questions when I was there, including how water effects the rides. Every mechanic there said the water doesn't make a big difference when it comes to the brakes. The water may cause a slight overshoot in the station when going to load or unload, but nothing major. Trains aren't going to run into eachother, trains aren't going to be impossible to stop, and the trains WOULD NOT bump into eachother.

 

Brakes on coasters, wet or not, they're going to work. They're designed that way.

[Tmcdllr]

^Good information, glad it came from someone who has had experience rather than just guessing. As far as RRv and Goliath misparking, since there are no brakes in those stations only drive tires, I can see how wet tires can affect train positioning as they wouldnt have as good a grip on the train as brakes would. Also, have either of the cars on Superman ever reached the brakes at the top of the tower?

[Jew]

To be fair, mechanics and ride operators see things from a completely different point of view. I've seen over runs at RRv, B:TR, Goliath, S:TE, Goldrusher, and Freefall (plus heard about more) caused by rain that mechanics see as not a problem because mechanically nothing is wrong (which is true). But at the same time, it's also outside of what operators see on a daily basis as normal operations...

 

Life threatening? Probably not. But you can never say never, so it's always better to operate on the side of caution.

[PURE]

To be fair, mechanics and ride operators see things from a completely different point of view.

 

That's exactly right, things that may not seem normal to mechanics can seem normal to ride ops and vice versa.

 

^Good information, glad it came from someone who has had experience rather than just guessing. As far as RRv and Goliath misparking, since there are no brakes in those stations only drive tires, I can see how wet tires can affect train positioning as they wouldnt have as good a grip on the train as brakes would. Also, have either of the cars on Superman ever reached the brakes at the top of the tower?

 

You're right about Riddlers and Goliath. Whenever there's only drive tires in the station and its raining the chance for over or undershoot gets higher, no doubt.

 

Both of the cars on both sides of Superman can hit the magnets at the top of the tower if the speed is turned up high enough, I've ridden it that way and lemme tell you it makes the ride a hell of a lot more fun. However, the ride just isn't efficient that way for normal operation because the LSM's can't run that quickly consistently, and the ride shuts down way too much. The speed its at now is about as efficient as it gets.

[vedved82491]

What's the greater possibility? One day returning it to full(er) speed, or just trashing the whole thing?

 

Also, does anyone have any promo footage or early footage of S:TE? I've always wanted to see videos of both cars going/making it further up the tower. I have this Thrill Rides 2003 thingy I taped a few years ago that has some footage from Travel channel, but I'm just wondering if anyone here as any.

[vedved82491]

Well a good chunk of FB is gone now. Both ends (space dives) have basically been removed

 

X is also coming along nicely as far as paint goes and Viper has reopened.