GigaG Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ^So what you are saying is that none of this will change until America un-wussifies itself? This angers me. A lot. Not at all. That's actually exactly the opposite of my point. Seeing the problem as Americans being "wussies" is what I am arguing is missing the point completely. It is not a matter of whatever mental or physical strength defines "wuss" versus "non-wuss" but a matter of economic bottom lines. Six Flags has no economic incentive to not neuter its rides to meet these standards. The legislative process works quite similarly in that these regulations are largely due to the same public outbursts to ride incidents that would lead Six Flags to take it upon themselves to neuter it. Arguing whether or not Americans are wusses is completely ignoring economic facts that are based in inherent structural ways in which we as Americans think of rides, how we process sensationalist news, and how our political system functions in the real world. I'm not getting this, which I'm a bit embarassed about. Another thing - I edited my previous post to add this, just making sure that it doesn't get buried- I really wish enthusiasts had some influence on parks outside of special events. That will never happen. Maybe we could spread the word to the GP that coasters are not deathtraps and they're supposed to throw you up into your lapbar, push you into your seat, etc... but how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Cow Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ^So what you are saying is that none of this will change until America un-wussifies itself? This angers me. A lot. Not at all. That's actually exactly the opposite of my point. Seeing the problem as Americans being "wussies" is what I am arguing is missing the point completely. It is not a matter of whatever mental or physical strength defines "wuss" versus "non-wuss" but a matter of economic bottom lines. Six Flags has no economic incentive to not neuter its rides to meet these standards. The legislative process works quite similarly in that these regulations are largely due to the same public outbursts to ride incidents that would lead Six Flags to take it upon themselves to neuter it. Arguing whether or not Americans are wusses is completely ignoring economic facts that are based in inherent structural ways in which we as Americans think of rides, how we process sensationalist news, and how our political system functions in the real world. I'm not getting this, which I'm a bit embarassed about. Another thing - I edited my previous post to add this, just making sure that it doesn't get buried- I really wish enthusiasts had some influence on parks outside of special events. That will never happen. Maybe we could spread the word to the GP that coasters are not deathtraps and they're supposed to throw you up into your lapbar, push you into your seat, etc... but how? That's probably because my ranting is rarely coherent anyways I suppose. I've cooled down anyways. Interestingly enough, I would guess that gestures the like of what you suggest in your edit would actually be the way to solve these large-scale problems, though I understand why you would be pessimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ^I agree, I think a lot of it is misunderstanding. For the most part, these intense rides are actually very safe if used properly and a lot of fun, trying to get the GP to understand and not be so paranoid about these things would be a monumental task. I wish they would though, I think things would be a lot different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTown661 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm heading to either SFMM or SFHH perhaps both in about a hr or 2. Just a slow walk around the parks more along the lines of people watching and perhaps a photo with the Griswalds type car near Colossus. Guess we could take in the Magic n Mayhem show and Suzy Haner at the Golden Bear with some hypnotist entertainment. Park has been packed most the week so today should be no exception. Anyone want to do a ride send me a IM as I know some people that know some people that might be able to get me a raft for the lazy river. Or just a ride on Orient and (PTC21) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Post some pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaG Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ^^^ and ^^^^: I always tell people that they're safer on a coaster than they are getting to the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ^^^ and ^^^^: I always tell people that they're safer on a coaster than they are getting to the park. That is true, something like a MILLION times safer than driving in your car to get to the park. That fact alone should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaG Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 ^^^ and ^^^^: I always tell people that they're safer on a coaster than they are getting to the park. That is true, something like a MILLION times safer than driving in your car to get to the park. That fact alone should be enough. I would imagine that less than 300 people have died on coasters since the beginning of the first Golden Age of Coasters. Maybe more or less, the number is high due to lower safety standards then. Assuming that number is right, and the year we start counting in is 1920, you have an average of just over 3 deaths a year. We'll round this to 3. This source says that 1.3 million people die a year in auto accidents. A simple calculation leads to a death rate of auto deaths that is over 400,000 times that of roller coaster deaths. Even if the average was 10 people a year for coasters, the death rate by automobile would still be 130,000 times that of the death rate by roller coaster. The 10 a year would be a ridiculously unsafe early age of coasters, but we will use it to show how safe coasters are. Let's take a famously safe form of transportation - airplanes. Like roller coasters, planes are safer than cars. According to this article, the worst year in terms of deaths by plane crash was 1972, where 3,329 people died in one year in plane crashes. Rounding to 3,000, this is is 1000 times the rate of roller coaster deaths using the lower number of 300 coaster deaths per year and 3 times the rate using the higher number of 10 deaths. Comparing to a year with a low rate of plane crashes, such as 2013, where plane crashes killed 462, we have a coaster death rate 154 times that of plane crashes using the lower estimate for coaster deaths and a plane crash death rate 46.2 times higher than coasters using the higher estimate of 10 a year. TL;DR: Coasters are hundreds of thousands of times safer than automobiles. Even using a year with a low number of plane crashes and using a very high average rate of coaster deaths, coasters are still many times safer than planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 And THAT I think is mainly due to the fact that the 'environment' a roller coaster operates in is more or less completely controlled. The course is fixed and not random and the trains are locked onto the track, so they cannot careen out of control and kill somebody, you are securely restrained inside the train safely, there are sophisticated and redundant control and safety systems to prevent collisions and accidents, and coasters cannot run 'drunk'. Cars, planes, that kind of thing are very random. A plane could suddenly fall out of the sky and demolish a mall full of people, a drunk driver could plow down a crowd on the side of the street- very random events. But those things cannot happen with the very controlled roller coaster and it's superior design for safety and the very sophisticated systems that control it. I think THAT is the difference and the sole reason why they are so much safer and getting safer than that still, if that's even possible. And it almost makes you wonder, due to that fact, why isn't there more being done to make these other things safer than they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singemfrc Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm heading to either SFMM or SFHH perhaps both in about a hr or 2. Just a slow walk around the parks more along the lines of people watching and perhaps a photo with the Griswalds type car near Colossus. Guess we could take in the Magic n Mayhem show and Suzy Haner at the Golden Bear with some hypnotist entertainment. Park has been packed most the week so today should be no exception. Anyone want to do a ride send me a IM as I know some people that know some people that might be able to get me a raft for the lazy river. Or just a ride on Orient and (PTC21) Post some pics and enjoy Suzy, I've seen here up here at the State Fair, she puts on a great show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow Dynamics fan Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 The Colossus did look pretty worn when I rode it last year; however, it was one of the better woodies I have ridden and was fairly smooth. I wish they would just transform the right side and spare the left. That way you can experience both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTown661 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Just returned from SFMM way to hot in the cement pond to last to long. I shall now try the app to up load my award winning cheap shots of mostly menus in SFHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTown661 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Have not tried the app in sometime but should be fine. We went inside Hurricane Harbor with plans to then enter SFMM. But way to hot so headed to Wendy's and then home. Here are cheap shots and menu boards from SFHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaG Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 About ASTM, this has the g-force limits. The onset limits, which I imagine would be the issue with GL, are not listed, however- http://nolimits-exchange.com/news/g-force-lesson/35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lk2500 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I visited SFMM this past Friday 6/27 with my DW and DS's 17 and 20, - and thought I'd post up a quick trip report. I posted last year about my herniated disc here www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64999&p=1334954&hilit=herniated#p1334954. I flew and visited Disneyland on Thursday and overdid it a bit, so that my back was spasming as I walked so I wasn't sure if I could ride coasters Friday. However, thanks to Schrecken's advice about using your legs to take the impact (see linked thread) and wearing a lightweight back brace, I was able to ride X2, Tatsu, Full Throttle, Lex, Goliath, and Ninja without a problem. Tips and comments: Platinum Flash Pass - absolutely worth every penny!! We did the PFP and added X2 and Full Throttle. Full Throttle was a 2 hour wait but it was a literal walk on for us, shortest wait of the day. It is interesting that each ride uses a different method for the PFP. Apocalypse puts you way back in the queue and my kids took a good hour to get their 2 rides in, while Full Throttle, X2, and Tatsu were literal walk ons. Ninja was a very strange implementation as was Goliath. Goliath mingles you back at the back of the train in a kind of random, chaotic mixture, and Ninja appears to load an entire train full of FP people while the non FP people wait (thought it was just a bit odd). Anyway, we were there from about 1:10PM to 7:45PM and got it a total of 15 rides (at least my kids did): Viper x2 Revolution x2 Tatsu (back row) Apocalypse x2 Ninja Full Throttle (back row) X2 Lex Luthor DOD Colossus Goliath Green lantern Superman X2 - Why did I ride this after seeing all your reviews, LOL? I guess I didn't recall the ride oscillating you back and forth in the chair as much when I rode it 4 years ago? Isn't that basically what a cat does to it's prey to snap it's neck and kill it, bite into it and shake it up and down until it's neck snaps? I'm surprised nobody has had any knee injuries after riding this thing. I just had to give it a go I guess, don't know if I'd ride it again though. Full Throttle - Like some others here I don't get the negative reviews. Definitely our favorite ride of the day. It's fast, smooth, and has some unique elements (for me at least). Park Condition - Generally ok except for the deplorable bathrooms by Apocalypse. It seemed to me that that entire corner of the park is the land that time forgot, just looks old and run down. Could definitely use some work in that corner. The rest of the park was fine though. Breakdowns - Full Throttle, X2, and Superman were all down briefly, but luckily came back up pretty quickly. So kudos to the maintenance staff for expedient work. YOLOband - It was 94 degrees and the wait for Full Throttle was 2 hours+. I was impressed though, that they at least try to hype the ride and keep the people in line entertained. They had a band playing some pretty cool music (something similar to Allstar by Smashmouth type music). They were just warming up when I walked by, I think they had a track playing but the drummer was definitely live. Do they have the band there all the time? Most of my pics are run of the mill but I will leave you with a picture of the YOLOband: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singemfrc Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Platinum Flash Pass - absolutely worth every penny!! We did the PFP and added X2 and YOLOcoaster. YOLOcoaster was a 2 hour wait but it was a literal walk on for us, shortest wait of the day. It is interesting that each ride uses a different method for the PFP. Apocalypse puts you way back in the queue and my kids took a good hour to get their 2 rides in, while YOLOcoaster, X2, and Tatsu were literal walk ons. Ninja was a very strange implementation as was Goliath. Goliath mingles you back at the back of the train in a kind of random, chaotic mixture, and Ninja appears to load an entire train full of FP people while the non FP people wait (thought it was just a bit odd).Yeah, its a crap shoot, but I find that skip-the-line merges are the one thing that SFMM consistently does better than CP, as most of CP's are like Apocalypse.Yolo and X2 are always going to be walk-ons if you purchase them, since they sell appointments it's literally impossible to ever encounter any kind of line. Also, normally I say don't bother with the Platinum upgrade, but it sounds like it was worth it that day for the YOLO line skip alone. Ninja, like a lot of coasters that existed before the Flash Pass did, has a makeshift que. I've never had a problem with it though, you just go up the exit and get an op's attention and they put you on a train..I've never seen them do that like you mentioned. Then again theres never anyone more than my group in the FP line when I'm there, if they had an entire train's worth of FP riders then that actually makes sense. Tatsu usually isn't a walkon, most often for me I join the line going up the stairs and wait 5-20 mins depending on whether I want the front row. It's usually the best deal in the park for flash pass since its free, there's almost never a wait to use the pass, and its usually a pretty long line that you skip most of. Superman is the only other one that I think is a wonky FP system. You can wait (and I have) 60-90+ mins from the flash pass merge. Park Condition - Generally ok except for the deplorable bathrooms by Apocalypse. It seemed to me that that entire corner of the park is the land that time forgot, just looks old and run down. Could definitely use some work in that corner. The rest of the park was fine though.Agree with you on that one, derelict is the word I think. Since I'm not a big fan of Apocalypse's current condition I tend to avoid that part of the park for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lk2500 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Yolo and X2 are always going to be walk-ons if you purchase them, since they sell appointments it's literally impossible to ever encounter any kind of line. Also, normally I say don't bother with the Platinum upgrade, but it sounds like it was worth it that day for the YOLO line skip alone. Ninja, like a lot of coasters that existed before the Flash Pass did, has a makeshift que. I've never had a problem with it though, you just go up the exit and get an op's attention and they put you on a train..I've never seen them do that like you mentioned. Then again theres never anyone more than my group in the FP line when I'm there, if they had an entire train's worth of FP riders then that actually makes sense. Tatsu usually isn't a walkon, most often for me I join the line going up the stairs and wait 5-20 mins depending on whether I want the front row. It's usually the best deal in the park for flash pass since its free, there's almost never a wait to use the pass, and its usually a pretty long line that you skip most of. Superman is the only other one that I think is a wonky FP system. You can wait (and I have) 60-90+ mins from the flash pass merge. Talking to my kids, Tatsu was indeed a 20 minute wait, not a walk on. And we couldn't ride twice since we had the back row. They said Superman was a pretty short wait. Ninja was just weird, we could tell it was different because the people standing in the regular queue just seemed really irate and we could hear several people making nasty comments about those dang Flash Pass people, especially the one guy trying to explain to his young son why he couldn't get on the ride at the time. Besides that it was pretty painless. Edited July 1, 2014 by lk2500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singemfrc Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ninja was just weird, we could tell it was different because the people standing in the regular queue just seemed really irate and we could hear several people making nasty comments about those dang Flash Pass people, especially the one guy trying to explain to his young son why he couldn't get on the ride at the time. Besides that it was pretty painless. Yeah thats true since with Ninja the FP riders board the train from the exit side instead of merging with the regular line like most coasters. It's worse when you have a platinum wristband and come around and they have to wait again (especially if it's one train ops). Do you remember which rides would not allow any re-riding in any row? Me and another user on here a while back were trying to figure out a list of rides that didn't allow PFP double rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lk2500 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ninja was just weird, we could tell it was different because the people standing in the regular queue just seemed really irate and we could hear several people making nasty comments about those dang Flash Pass people, especially the one guy trying to explain to his young son why he couldn't get on the ride at the time. Besides that it was pretty painless. Yeah thats true since with Ninja the FP riders board the train from the exit side instead of merging with the regular line like most coasters. It's worse when you have a platinum wristband and come around and they have to wait again (especially if it's one train ops). Do you remember which rides would not allow any re-riding in any row? Me and another user on here a while back were trying to figure out a list of rides that didn't allow PFP double rides. LOL, as soon as Ninja left the station I told my kids were are NOT re-riding, didn't want the town people coming after us with pitchforks. Hmmm, after 3 days of theme parking everything tends to be a blur, especially approaching 50, lol. I swear I recall seeing a sign in the Flash Pass office that says no double rides on any back or front row. My kids claim there was no sign and they were told verbally on Viper no front/back re-rides and that's how we knew on Tatsu. Then on Apocalypse they said they re-rode (not front/back) and the attendants didn't even look for or notice their red bracelets. So, that probably doesn't help you..... If you find any official policy I'd be curious to know now as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFChris Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I just saw a SFMM commercial and the track on the lift hill on Colossus appears to be painted blue. Anybody know whats up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCF Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I just saw a SFMM commercial and the track on the lift hill on Colossus appears to be painted blue. Anybody know whats up? The first RMC featuring blue track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laqueefa Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I just saw a SFMM commercial and the track on the lift hill on Colossus appears to be painted blue. Anybody know whats up? It's sad about being removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Alumni Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I just saw a SFMM commercial and the track on the lift hill on Colossus appears to be painted blue. Anybody know whats up? It is not Colossus. If you notice most of the rides and water slides in the commercial are not from MM/HH. I think it sucks if they're going to advertise that a ride is closing and come out and ride it one last time, they should at least show footage of the actual ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterchitchat Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I just saw a SFMM commercial and the track on the lift hill on Colossus appears to be painted blue. Anybody know whats up? It is not Colossus. If you notice most of the rides and water slides in the commercial are not from MM/HH. I think it sucks if they're going to advertise that a ride is closing and come out and ride it one last time, they should at least show footage of the actual ride. When Six Flags advertised for Boomerang at St.Louis they used New England's to use as footage instead of them just doing some real stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lk2500 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 One more thing from my trip Friday. If you buy a 6x8 ride photo for $15 they give you a coupon for a 6x8 ride photo for $7. I used the coupon to buy another ride photo and the cashier handed me the coupon back so I guess you can just keep re-using it. Not a great deal since ride photos are way overpriced as it is, but not bad either if you only go there once every few years like myself. I also enjoyed the Vacation (Chevy Chase) display over by Colossus to commemorate it's closing. They have a replica of "The Wagon Queen Family Truckster" station wagon from the movie you can take pictures by. The Wagon Queen Family Truckster station wagon was based on a 1979 Ford LTD Country Squire station wagon and heavily modified for the movie. The first car I drove in High School was my parents 1976 Ford LTD Country Squire station wagon, the only difference was that it was white with simulated wood grain paneling instead of green. I think it had like a 460 engine in it, I know my brothers got it going pretty good on the freeway a few times.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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