Louise

^ Makes perfect sense. At least in your case. I think I do understand the point you were trying to make now. It just read as a little unfair when I was generalising it in the way that I was when I first read it.

^ OMG!! The one where one kid got guided around a castle by his team, or something?? I vaguely remember that now you mention it! It was wicked!!

That's cool. I agree with you in that respect, but it's definitely a one-way correlation. By which I mean, there are going to be less parents of private-school children who DON'T care, but that does not necessarily mean there are less parents with children in public school who DO. Wow, that made even less sense than your post.

You want to be careful saying this... I'm not necessarily saying that this is what you MEANT to reply, but this kinda reads like you're saying that kids in public schools (like myself and hundreds of others here) have parents who didn't pass logic onto them... Which is definitely not true, and is equally as bad a blanket statement as "all kids are idiots". My parents would have loved for me to go to private school. You're correct 100% in your assumption that wearing the same outfit doesn't make two people the same. That's kind of a part of my argument FOR the uniforms, it doesn't change or diminish the students' personality or individuality in any way, it just means there's one less indicator of economic status.

Whoa, those old pics are really cool!! I love old photographs. My stupid Morrisons has nothing like that, the b*stards!

I would LOVE this and yet be absolutely petrified at the same time. Which is the best way to be.

LMAO, Elissa deserves medals for bravery, I can put up with him for like ten hours max. She's been doing it for YEARS. On a serious note actually, I do owe Robb a thank you for the crazy track-searching, it was kinda fun. Cheers dude! ^ LOL Scott!

^ I was balanced very precariously.... Stupid Robb actually got both Double Deckers in the end I think, I never ate mine!! And if Old Jeff is reading this, check out the socks, that picture was for you!

It doesn't necessarily directly have an effect upon their academic performance, it just takes away something which is one of the most common causes of bullying, and therefore is one less thing for the kids to worry about. Don't read too much into it, I'm not suggesting that uniforms solve all problems, not by a long run, but in that sense, they certainly help out with eliminating one thing that can have an adverse effect on several aspects of a kid's (and particularly a teenager's) life. But the poor kid doesn't dress as if he/she is wealthy. Neither does the wealthy kid. They all dress as... Well, it's neutral. There's no way of telling who is from what kind of background. Eliminating many of the problems that are common in *some* high schools without uniforms. As for the rest of your post, I'm sad to say I'm confused! (And after all this time I thought I finally understood you. ) What does having or not having a uniform have to do with how hard people work and whether peoples' parents work hard or not? I'm baffled! EDITED TO ADD: I think I'm beginning to understand actually. You're saying they SHOULD be distinguishable in some kind of celebration of how well their parents have done? If not, ignore this addendum, but if so, how is that fair? Why should I be punished for my parents being layabouts, or be rewarded for them being millionaires? What they do/did has nothing to do with what kind of person I am.

The rest of your post made perfect sense to me, but I just wanted to point out that the sentence I've quoted implies that you completely missed my point from my previous post, and I wanted to make it clear that what you've said there is NOT what I was trying to say. It wasn't a case of poor kids fitting into a rich environment, or rich kids fitting into a poor environment. It was a case of putting every single child in that school onto a level economic playing field. Of course bullying still went on for academic and social reasons, but at an age where kids are beginning to become VERY aware of how financially wealthy their families are, and other peoples' families in comparison... I think that equality is very important. That was all I was trying to say.

Happy birthday Jahan! Have a great one!

Elissa, I advise that after KidTums is born, you don't let Laura visit you anymore...

Guy, Robb's glasses surprised me too! I was like "WTF, do you even wear contacts?!" It was a lot of fun, but being in Blackpool with Robb again kinda made me miss Elissa, my Aussies and old men, and the rest of the UK trip crew. It was interesting yet creepy at the same time wandering around in a completely empty park, all new experience for me. I know he reads sometimes and will probably check this thread out so thanks for showing us around Mark, you were really great!!

Not at all dumb, I actually think if we merge Elissa's, Wes's, my and your posts together it kinda makes a coherent theory. Parents (and other family members) perhaps have an influence upon their children's attitudes to trying new things, and maybe do in a way encourage previous social stereotypes by encouragin boys to be more daring than girls. Society further reinforces this as they grow up by showing them that girls are meant to be afraid of stuff. Many younger women aren't as affected by this because the lines are all blurred now and gender isn't as important, but in older women it's perhaps more of an issue in a lot of cases, and this might be exacerbated in the case of women who are parents, as if they have less interest, they're less likely to figure out/less likely to bother trying the different ways of being able to do stuff WITH the kids, instead of using it as an excuse to just not bother riding. That got a little convoluted. I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

The uniform in Gav's school in Australia sounds similar to how my high school's was, it was black or grey long pants for both genders, or a skirt (not too short), if preferred, for girls, white shirt, grey and gold striped tie, and grey sweatshirt with (optionally) the gold school logo. No other logos allowed. However, they've recently changed it (in an attempt to make the pupils look smarter when wandering around outside the school) to black trousers/skirt, white shirt, red and black striped tie, red V-neck jumper, and a black blazer. Some friends and I at uni actually had this conversation a little while before Christmas and it got bizarrely heated! My argument FOR uniforms is always that, for the most part, it acts as a leveller. My school was a little odd in that it's in a funny part of town, where literally within a five minute walk are some of the most poverty-stricken areas of the North West, council estates and the like, and then on the other side, some very affluent areas, half a million pound houses, etc etc. If we had been able to wear whatever we wanted... There would have been a GREAT class divide between the kids who had all the designer gear they wanted, and those who clearly had to buy their clothes second-hand, or wear siblings' hand-me-downs. Now obviously, these less wealthy families still had to BUY uniforms, but the school did help out a lot, and they always encouraged leaving pupils with no younger siblings to leave their sweatshirts and ties behind when they left to be passed on to people who couldn't afford much, which I'd say a good 50%+ of us did. Obviously, in extreme cases, you could still tell whose families had money and whose didn't, from things like shoes and bags, and in some cases, it was clear that peoples' uniforms hadn't been bought specifically for them, as they didn't fit correctly, were obviously old, etc, but it definitely helped out a LOT, especially in the last couple of years when they started banning obvious logos on bags and coats so that the designer label obsession was diminished. Having said all this (and I'm trying to wrap up because my post will end up as long as the original poster's article), now that they've brought in the NEW uniform, it's causing no end of problems, because the poorer kids can't afford to buy the stupidly expensive blazers, plus they have to buy EVERYTHING bar the shirts new, and there is nothing to be handed down to them from the past students, as that uniform is now obsolete. At least, it will be: the kids THIS year have the luxury of choosing between the two, and can wear either the original grey and gold or the new black and red. I can see the other side of it, it was nice once I got to college and could wear my own clothes everyday, but then college and university are a lot less harsh than high school, and to be honest it was vastly less stressful for myself and hundreds of others to just have the uniform.

That's actually a good point. I do think that another part of it maybe has a lot to do with upbringing, and possibly parents are more likely to encourage their young sons to do the more "risky" things, and not so much with their daughters? My parents and particularly my brother were always encouraging me to ride coasters and other rides as soon as I was tall enough, go on adventure holidays (abseiling, kayaking, rock climbing, etc) with school, all that kind of stuff, which I know most of the girls in my class didn't do, although many of the boys did. Edited to add that I just realised that the upbringing theory really wouldn't explain why some women are interested when younger but actually LOSE interest into their 30s and 40s. So I don't know, I'm out of ideas on that part.

I think that the main thing that you've said that may possibly have some merit is the whole men not being expected to grow up when women are kinda thing. But in some ways even that is kinda sketchy in today's society, where although there's still inequality in some ways, I think the expectations in that respect are a little more equal. But then that's my personal opinion, and I'm sure many women with different views on "feminism" and stuff would totally disagree. I'm almost certain that it's more of an age thing than it is a parent thing, I really don't think the post-children loss of interest theory has much merit. There are FAR more male than female enthusiasts, and more gay men than the supposed national average percentages. Just the way it is I guess. *shrug*

Awww, Jow! I love it!! Not nearly enough geeky teenage pics though... In fact, none at all! I love seeing how people have changed through the years, thanks! Oh, and on the Tiger Woods pic? I can TOTALLY see the beginnings of a gut that would later become famous...

^ Are you paying?! I'd love to, but I have classes I can't miss unfortanately. Seriously, I hope you have fun. Does this complete your Disney credits?!

I hate you.

Wow, that place beats the crap out of where I work. Looks totally yummy.

It makes my eyes feel funny!! And I'm even more scared by these headless people!!

I touch myself at night.... No wait....

I know Disneyquest gets mixed reviews, but I always thought it looked totally awesome, but my Dad would never let us go. I was gutted when I heard it was closing. So if it's being replaced with something bigger and better in Orlando, I'll be even happier to return there one day! Am I hoping for too much to expect the new park to be in the UK?!

Currently, "Secretly" by Skunk Anansie. But earlier, Chingy's "One Call Away". Which made me crack up.