KDCOASTERFAN Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 A terrain 4D coaster kind of defeats the purpose. How so? Spinning close to the ground or pointing towards the ground at the bottom of a dive could be some terrific thrills not requiring a huge amount of height... Bigger is not always better... Yeah, but as I said before, the turning of the seats are the result of the coasters force, and the lower the force, the less intensely the seats would spin, and also if it were to stay close to the ground, it'd have less options of elements. How is that? The current 4D system relies on spacing between the running rails & a secondary rail that carries the rack & pinion system that allows the seats to rotate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotcher Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 ^ Unless Beemer was to go "outside the box" (Pun intended), their box track wouldn't really work for that system. But I dunno if Beemer would try and tweek their track so it would work (Doesn't seem possible), or if they'd go for a new track design, but unlike S&S, they can't just add rails to the side of the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDCOASTERFAN Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 ^ Unless Beemer was to go "outside the box" (Pun intended), their box track wouldn't really work for that system. But I dunno if Beemer would try and tweek their track so it would work (Doesn't seem possible), or if they'd go for a new track design, but unlike S&S, they can't just add rails to the side of the track. Sure they could,just weled the connector ties on the inside of the rails instead of the outside & have it connected to the sidewall of the box track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotcher Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 That wouldn't work unless they used Arrow(-esk) ties....and also I'm not sure that the outside rails could support such a heavy train, not to mention the box structure would be Dive Machine size, and the track it's self would be extremely heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&MIntaminGCI Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Maybe the track would look something like this, the normal box track with a rail on the outside underneath that the B&M wing rider attaches too. It would use the same technology as the Arrow/S&S but on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 ^ Unless Beemer was to go "outside the box" (Pun intended), their box track wouldn't really work for that system. But I dunno if Beemer would try and tweek their track so it would work (Doesn't seem possible), or if they'd go for a new track design, but unlike S&S, they can't just add rails to the side of the track. That wouldn't work unless they used Arrow(-esk) ties....and also I'm not sure that the outside rails could support such a heavy train, not to mention the box structure would be Dive Machine size, and the track it's self would be extremely heavy. I guess what I don't understand here is when you became an engineer working to develop B&Ms new 4D coaster design. I mean, if I'm wrong, please correct me. But you really have no idea what they or their spine or rails or trains are capable of. And you, or any of us, won't until we see this happen years down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotcher Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I'm not, but we can discuss our opinions here am I wrong? And I know I'm not the slightest bit right, but at least I gave my opinion. Am I supposed to always add "In my opinion" and "I think", because pretty much no one can know anything until it's announced. Try adding those to every place that would make sense, and see what I was trying to say. But anyway, does anybody think Beemer would use 2x2 cars? 2 people one row, 2 rows per car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 B&M could pull something out of that hat that we didn't even think of. Perhaps the 4-D system they put in place will not rely on a parallel rail system at all, who knows! I just keep thinking about this concept that was at IAPPA, where a parallel rail is on top of the track. With this system you could theoretically get limitless degrees of rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Khan Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Yes, I had already seen this amazing video too. This guy rocks at kit bashing. His "Type 2" concept may be a bit far fetched (I'm doubtful as the possibility of sending 2 trains on a same spin, knowing the forces would be totally different in one layout or the other), but the 4D is probably feasible with a single rail mechanism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 But anyway, does anybody think Beemer would use 2x2 cars? 2 people one row, 2 rows per car? I've always been under the impression that B&Ms are people-eaters. You'd be able to fit a station in less space with the four-across. I personally think it would be awesome if the trains had twelve cars (48 people per train!). That would probably be wickedly heavy and impractical in the long run, but I still think it would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Am I supposed to always add "In my opinion" and "I think", because pretty much no one can know anything until it's announced. Try adding those to every place that would make sense, and see what I was trying to say. It would be a start to help you not sound like a pompous know-it-all in most of your posts! I only say this because you sound like a pompous know-it-all in most of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastermaniac Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 While I would like to see a B&M launch coaster, I don't want to see one come to Cedar Point anytime soon (they need something different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom25 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think a launched wing-rider or 4D would be a great addition to CP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_koppen Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Launched wingrider would be the perfect third and final monster for Canada's Wonderland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Am I supposed to always add "In my opinion" and "I think", because pretty much no one can know anything until it's announced. Try adding those to every place that would make sense, and see what I was trying to say. It would be a start to help you not sound like a pompous know-it-all in most of your posts! I only say this because you sound like a pompous know-it-all in most of your posts. That's what I'm saying. You don't know any more than any of us do, so if you're talking about your opinion those little things should probably be thrown in there. Anyways, they have already done 2x2 seating on the newer hypers. It's honestly really stupid and makes very little sense other than to give a better view and more "open" feeling - neither of which really justify, at least for me, the separation of my two-person party in a second-row-in-a-car or the terrible rattle that these new trains seem to have. I'm really hoping that the return to the old design for Leviathan isn't solely to distinguish it from Behemoth, and that we'll see the 2x2 trains drop off the face of the earth. B&M could pull something out of that hat that we didn't even think of. Perhaps the 4-D system they put in place will not rely on a parallel rail system at all, who knows! I just keep thinking about this concept that was at IAPPA, where a parallel rail is on top of the track. With this system you could theoretically get limitless degrees of rotation. Yeah, I remember seeing that, and I think that if they can get it working they could definitely shoot for something like that. IIRC, one of the things the designer was touting was that it offered smoother rotations - something the S&S/Arrow 4D coasters definitely don't have. So if a design can get smoothness and reliability hand-in-hand, it's pretty much screaming out B&M's name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harper83087 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Both ideas are the next logical step for B&M in my opinion. The launches aren't that far away as far as I'm concerned, at least magnetic launches. Sure they won't be the Intamin hydraulic insanity but they will be thrilling for sure. The 4d could go either way I think. A 3rd rail system would be primarily fail safe but a computerized system would be cool as well. The only issue I see with the computerized system would be cost, they'd have to load the track with sensors telling the seats to spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&MIntaminGCI Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I doubt B&M would go with a computer controlled system, if it malfunctions during a ride, the seats won't rotate and the position the riders are stuck it makes the forces out of wack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schotcher Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Anybody think if B&M takes on launching and 4D coasters, that Beemer could potentially dominate the coaster market? (If they lowered their prices a bit of course ) Edited October 3, 2011 by Schotcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom25 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I agree that a computerized system is very unlikely to happen due to the risk of malfunction and the shear number of components, cost, and weight needed to make it work. Any 4D system will need to be fail safe, so a mechanical system would be the only option. B&M has always been the more expensive manufacturer, and suspect even with launches and 4D, that won't change. Parks that want to push the envelop will gravitate towards Intamin, while parks that want value and a reliable ride will pay the additional cost for B&M. Due to the limited market for coasters, I don't believe we'll ever see a "price war." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 ^^Not at all for the reasons ^he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAWKIN_coaster38 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think B&M should create launched 4D coasters. That would sure be a trip! This is exciting news! I would loved to see launched B&Ms and I've always loved X2 (the only 4D I've been on so far) and I would be completely excited to see B&M improve on the technology. I'm not an engineer so I don't know all the details and issues about this, but like someone said earlier, I think it would be cool to somehow mix the 4D on coasters like X2, which the unpredictability of the Zac Spin, so it doesn't always spin the same, but there's still will be spinning throughout. (From what I've heard on here, people have been disappointed with Green Lantern because it doesn't spin as much as people would like.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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