Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread

[mikeykaise]

The two sides talked but the Fair Board wanted a higher rent and Six Flags said nope and walked away from it because this was about the time Six Flags was getting ready to declare bankruptcy so they basically just wanted out as quickly as they could.

[Midgetman82]

I really really doubt a company that left an amusement park to rot would want to come back and spend money to fix it back up again, especially considering it was in a much worse state than when they had left.

[liftsifter]

There are some overall holes in the story posted. The closure of SFKK was not sudden or even not recent in 2010.

 

In 2007, SFKK failed to meet goals set by corporate and the park was slated not to reopen for the next season until Jay Thomas (the Park President at the time, he's now in corporate) stepped in and helped the park reach a financial target. As a consequence, though, the park could no longer afford to keep the Twisted Twins and Mile High Falls area open, and the area closed during the 2008 season.

 

In June 2009, Six Flags, Inc. declared Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection, meaning that while under Chapter 11, with court approval, Six Flags could suspend, change or leave any contract, property lease and arrangements.

 

In September, Six Flags announced Chang would be closed and removed to make room for Bonzai Beach a massive water park expansion which was slated to open in 2011 for the Six Flags 50th Anniversary.

 

On February 4, 2010, without warning any employees, Six Flags announced that talks with the Fair Board had not been fruitful and Six Flags would officially request Bankruptcy Court approval to drop the agreement between the two organizations. It was later confirmed by the Fair Board that Six Flags wanted to receive a larger percentage of parking income in order to justify keeping the property in operation.

 

In May 2010, Six Flags announced that the Bankruptcy Court had approved their plan to emerge from Bankruptcy, shaving almost 1.6 Billion in debt and cancelling the lease agreement with the Kentucky Fair Board being the two largest factors to the new Six Flags among the removal of Dan Snyder as President of the Board of Directors and the introduction of a new Board of Directors. Mark Shapiro would resign as CEO a few days later after disagreements in the direction of the company.

 

During the Summer of 2010, Six Flags and the Fair Board reached an agreement to drop litigation over Chang and give Six Flags one attraction from the park in exchange for the property Six Flags owned adjacent to the fairgrounds as well as licensing rights to certain names.

 

And the story of Ed Hart continued then.

Edited April 15, 2014 by liftsifter

[mikeykaise]

thank you, I knew the gist but not the complete details like that.

[Midgetman82]

^^Thanks for the details. Sounds like it sums it up pretty well.

[sfkk]

During the Summer of 2010, Six Flags and the Fair Board reached an agreement to drop litigation over Chang and give Six Flags one attraction from the park in exchange for the property Six Flags owned adjacent to the fairgrounds as well as licensing rights to certain names.

 

And the story of Ed Hart continued then.

 

 

So if Six Flags sold the part of the park that they owned to the fair board does that mean that the fair board now owns all of the land that Kentucky Kingdom sits on, or did they sell the part they purchased from Six Flags back to Ed Hart.

[lilsam1993]

In 2007, SFKK failed to meet goals set by corporate and the park was slated not to reopen for the next season until Jay Thomas (the Park President at the time, he's now in corporate) stepped in and helped the park reach a financial target. As a consequence, though, the park could no longer afford to keep the Twisted Twins and Mile High Falls area open, and the area closed during the 2008 season.

 

 

And the story of Ed Hart continued then.

 

I agree with just about everything you said but actually it was 2006 when SFKK failed. Jay got the park on financial target like you said, but that was for the 2007 season when Deluge was added and the whole water park went under a crappy renovations and renamed SplashWater Kingdom. But then the accident happened that year and Jay got relocated to SFMM and all future plans for the KK was scratchcard. At a Job fair I attended in January 2007, Jay Thomas did hint to us employees at that time that there were plans for the NW territory of the park (Twisted Twin, Mile High Falls) in the next season (2008) because that area had been decaying several years prior. I heard the old dragster ride area in the NW Territory was going to receive a Thomas Town/Wiggles World, but...like I said, future plans were scratched after the accident. In 2008, that section was closed like you said...and basically you said all the rest

 

I remember hearing rumors on screamscape during that year the Ed Hart was trying to get the park back but Six Flags was not interested in selling the park because his offer was low. Either way, 5 years is too long but 5 years is worth the wait for Ed's Magic.

[mikeykaise]

During the Summer of 2010, Six Flags and the Fair Board reached an agreement to drop litigation over Chang and give Six Flags one attraction from the park in exchange for the property Six Flags owned adjacent to the fairgrounds as well as licensing rights to certain names.

 

And the story of Ed Hart continued then.

 

 

So if Six Flags sold the part of the park that they owned to the fair board does that mean that the fair board now owns all of the land that Kentucky Kingdom sits on, or did they sell the part they purchased from Six Flags back to Ed Hart.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Fair Board own the whole property and rents it to the operators?

[mdwarn01]

During the Summer of 2010, Six Flags and the Fair Board reached an agreement to drop litigation over Chang and give Six Flags one attraction from the park in exchange for the property Six Flags owned adjacent to the fairgrounds as well as licensing rights to certain names.

 

And the story of Ed Hart continued then.

 

 

So if Six Flags sold the part of the park that they owned to the fair board does that mean that the fair board now owns all of the land that Kentucky Kingdom sits on, or did they sell the part they purchased from Six Flags back to Ed Hart.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Fair Board own the whole property and rents it to the operators?

 

I believe this is the case. Hence why nobody but Ed Hart wanted anything to do with the park after Six Flags ditched it.

[sfkk]

^ I know when six flags was there Six Flags owned the area by twisted twins, thunder run, and blizzard river, and rented the rest from the fair board. I do not know what the current situation is. That was part of the reason for the huge debate for the chang removal was because some of it was on fair board land, and some of it was on Six Flags property. I tend to think now that the fair board owns all the land since they acquired the remaining land from the settlement with six flags. But they could have sold the former six flags land back to Ed Hart.

[Diamondbacker27]

I wonder what Six Flags thinks about Kentucky Kingdoms comeback.

[ajfelice]

I wonder what Six Flags thinks about Kentucky Kingdoms comeback.

 

I don't think Six Flags really cares one bit, as most of the higher ups either saw what happened or were not a major part of the company at the time that SFKK was abandoned along with all of the bankruptcy changeovers. For a company like Six Flags, Cedar Fair, or you name it to be restricted by the Kentucky State Fair Board, I'm surprised Six Flags even went into that agreement (then again, this was the dark times of Six Flags). Heck, I still can't believe some of the terms and promises from the current operator such as the pledge to invest at least $1 million per year for park upgrades (unless their definition of park upgrades includes regular things like repainting and maintenance). I'm rooting for the place, but I still think it's a very risky investment even by theme park standards. I'm sure Six Flags isn't hurting from the loss of SFKK from the looks of their income statements.

[Diamondbacker27]

Six could have made the park work but they never added new rides. Maybe one or two, but that's it.

Ed said it is all about the rides, that is what caused Kentucky Kingdom before Six Flags ownership to have a record attendence number.

[ratdogg68]

Ed has turned it around, making it a Money Maker once before, he can do it again. Ed is the one who invested in Chang, T2, Mile HIgh, Giant Wheel and other New Attractions. All Six Flags added was A Used Roller Coaster and a couple Water Slides. Six Flags attendance capped off in 2005, we went into the Black that year, nothing New " Ride Wise" was added after that. Hellavators accident began the Downfall of SFKK, it never recovered after that. Had Six Flags invested more Money into the Park it could have helped, but Six Flags reputation with the Park was damaged by then. Everyone locally knows Ed made KK what it was before Six Flags took the Park over and we all know he will do it again. Look what all he has put into it this year, he knows you NEED New and Many attractions to get the People in. Six Flags hardly ever added anything, they Closed and removed more than they added.

 

I believe The New Kentucky Kingdom and Hurricane Bay will do well, they already sold close to 100,000 Season Passes, they went up to $99.00 Monday night but the Local Kroger Store is offering them for $69.99. Their Drink and Food prices aren't bad, they offer Free Tube's and Sun Screen ( which SFKK charged for) and they have More to Offer then SFKK did when it closed. I'm looking forward to visiting again, I was going to work there again but I had to turn it down, I've missed my Kingdom.

[Diamondbacker27]

Couldn't agree more. Can't wait to see what Ed has up his sleeve.

[DanTheBooker]

On the park map, there's a coaster marked for "coming 2016". Do we know anything about that?

[ratdogg68]

On the park map, there's a coaster marked for "coming 2016". Do we know anything about that?

 

It will be " Twisted Twins" reopening

[Diamondbacker27]

There are rumors about a RMC rehab like IRAT!

[liftsifter]

The capital structure of Six Flags during the time when KK was a part of the chain would not have allowed for the park to be successful. The plan emphasised the success of the larger parks (SFMM, SFGAm, SFGAdv) and would occasionally offer new capital to the smaller parks, mostly in relocated attractions from other parks.

 

Parks like KK don't belong in a chain of properties. SFMM on the other hand, does.

 

There are rumors about a RMC rehab like IRAT!

I wouldn't be too hopeful. Six Flags pays at least $10 Million per renovation and that includes guarantees for future business. Two whole tracks with I-Box doesn't seem practical for a park which will just be getting back on track. If it was the case, Thunder Run would have been retracked with Topper Track.

[CoasterGuy06]

Was KK really a money maker before Six Flags though? I know Ed always points out the attendance numbers from when he last ran the park, but I don't he ever has discussed actual profitability of the park back then. When Premier acquired the park I read in one local article that no cash actually changed hands, but they just acquired the parks debt load (which was $60 something million at the time if I remember right). That seems high for a park that size.

[Diamondbacker27]

The capital structure of Six Flags during the time when KK was a part of the chain would not have allowed for the park to be successful. The plan emphasised the success of the larger parks (SFMM, SFGAm, SFGAdv) and would occasionally offer new capital to the smaller parks, mostly in relocated attractions from other parks.

 

Parks like KK don't belong in a chain of properties. SFMM on the other hand, does.

 

There are rumors about a RMC rehab like IRAT!

I wouldn't be too hopeful. Six Flags pays at least $10 Million per renovation and that includes guarantees for future business. Two whole tracks with I-Box doesn't seem practical for a park which will just be getting back on track. If it was the case, Thunder Run would have been retracked with Topper Track.

No, not exactly. Ed said something about forming Twisted Twins into one larger wooden coaster with a major refurb. Thunder Run couldn't get box track because KK has limited amount of money as of this time. So therefore I agree to disagree.

 

^ And yes, Kentucky kingdom was a money maker before Six Flags bought it. Ed Hart has a YouTube Chanel on which he replys to viewers questions and tells how KK was a major money maker before Six bought it out.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Diamondbacker27

[liftsifter]

The capital structure of Six Flags during the time when KK was a part of the chain would not have allowed for the park to be successful. The plan emphasised the success of the larger parks (SFMM, SFGAm, SFGAdv) and would occasionally offer new capital to the smaller parks, mostly in relocated attractions from other parks.

 

Parks like KK don't belong in a chain of properties. SFMM on the other hand, does.

 

There are rumors about a RMC rehab like IRAT!

I wouldn't be too hopeful. Six Flags pays at least $10 Million per renovation and that includes guarantees for future business. Two whole tracks with I-Box doesn't seem practical for a park which will just be getting back on track. If it was the case, Thunder Run would have been retracked with Topper Track.

No, not exactly. Ed said something about forming Twisted Twins into one larger wooden coaster with a major refurb. Thunder Run couldn't get box track because KK has limited amount of money as of this time. So therefore I agree to disagree.

 

^ And yes, Kentucky kingdom was a money maker before Six Flags bought it.

 

Topper Track isn't much more expensive than traditional retracking, in fact, it's cheaper over time.

 

Do you have any information to substantiate your claim that Kentucky Kingdom was profitable? I don't know why Ed Hart would sell a perfectly good and profitable park unless the property wasn't making profit, or if there was no clear path to pay down the immense debt the park put onto Ed and the Fair Board.

[Diamondbacker27]

The capital structure of Six Flags during the time when KK was a part of the chain would not have allowed for the park to be successful. The plan emphasised the success of the larger parks (SFMM, SFGAm, SFGAdv) and would occasionally offer new capital to the smaller parks, mostly in relocated attractions from other parks.

 

Parks like KK don't belong in a chain of properties. SFMM on the other hand, does.

 

There are rumors about a RMC rehab like IRAT!

I wouldn't be too hopeful. Six Flags pays at least $10 Million per renovation and that includes guarantees for future business. Two whole tracks with I-Box doesn't seem practical for a park which will just be getting back on track. If it was the case, Thunder Run would have been retracked with Topper Track.

No, not exactly. Ed said something about forming Twisted Twins into one larger wooden coaster with a major refurb. Thunder Run couldn't get box track because KK has limited amount of money as of this time. So therefore I agree to disagree.

 

^ And yes, Kentucky kingdom was a money maker before Six Flags bought it.

 

Topper Track isn't much more expensive than traditional retracking, in fact, it's cheaper over time.

 

Do you have any information to substantiate your claim that Kentucky Kingdom was profitable? I don't know why Ed Hart would sell a perfectly good and profitable park unless the property wasn't making profit, or if there was no clear path to pay down the immense debt the park put onto Ed and the Fair Board.

Yes, I edited my post above.

[Midgetman82]

Don't know if you heard, but RMC was brought in to re-track Thunder Run. I'd see the same happening for Twisted Twins, or maybe even altering the layout a bit to their liking. I don't see why people immediately assume every park will suddenly pour millions into going with an NTaG or iRAT makeover on their wooden coasters just because Six Flags did it with a few of theirs. I'll keep an open mind though, because the same man once brought a mega B&M stand-up coaster to the park... So who really knows.

[liftsifter]

Don't know if you heard, but RMC was brought in to re-track Thunder Run. I'd see the same happening for Twisted Twins, or maybe even altering the layout a bit to their liking. I don't see why people immediately assume every park will suddenly pour millions into going with an NTaG or iRAT makeover on their wooden coasters just because Six Flags did it with a few of theirs. I'll keep an open mind though, because the same man once brought a mega B&M stand-up coaster to the park... So who really knows.

 

My bad, looked back and saw RMC did in fact do the retracking on Thunder Run.