An interesting thought/question about Pre-Fab Woodies:

[Coasterlvr_nc]

^ yeah, but at what point is it considered a steel roller coaster and no longer wooden? If its a multilooper then there would probably be more steel track then wooden track at some point in time.

[Scaparri]

^No, not really. The loop structure of Son of Beast was steel, but the track was still wooden track. It's not really any different than coasters like the Coney Island Cyclone or The Voyage having a steel structure. I've heard so many people say, "yeah, but the loop wasn't even wood." No, it WAS wood, it just had a steel structure.

[robbalvey]

And, as I said before in the "Mammut" thread: It seems that "Mammut" will not feature the laminated (pnp) track!

You've said this twice but how do you know this for sure? Or do you not really have any clue and you are just trying to convince us you know something when you really don't?

 

--Robb

[asr]

Now that I have thought about it more, a multilooping woodie would be pretty dumb. Sure, it would have wooden track, but it would have the spirit of a steel coaster. Steel supports, steel coaster esque layout, steel coaster elements, and if it used prefab track, modern steel coaster level of smoothness aswell.

[texcoaster]

Wow... so much to cover.

 

[1] Guide wheels on the outside of the rails doesn't make a coaster smoother. It's the amount of play between the wheels and the rails that matters. Whether that play is outside or inside the rails is irrelevant. A wood coaster is rough because the train bounces from rail to rail looking for center. Well, and other factors like aging, etc...

 

[2] A woodie isn't rougher than a steelie because the structure moves more. The movement of the structure makes it SMOOTHER, actually. You WANT that thing to move, trust me.

 

[3] A floorless woodie would suck. Any train concept that would raise the center of gravity that far would suck. Every vibration, every shake, every bump gets multiplied. Ditto for an inverted train, only you're lowering instead of raising.

 

[4] Multi-looping woodie? Who do I slap for this idea? The cost of maintenance alone would make most parks balk at this.

 

[5] Launched and/or shuttle woodie. Sign me up! I'm not sure why nobody's done a shuttle woodie yet. The launch idea would depend on some sort of launch system that could handle the train moving back and forth a bit as the wood changes shape due to age and weather. You can't have the super-close tolerances of fins between LIMS or other such launch systems. You could, however, do a reverse-lift (like boomerang) pretty easily.

 

[6] I thought of trains that had seats mounted to poles with springs under them. In moments of airtime, the entire seat assembly raises up, guided by the posts. When it lands, the springs cushion the fall. What you get is super-exaggerated airtime sensations, since you AND the seat rise up. Crazy? Probably. But no crazier than some of the other stuff batted around in this thread!

[robbalvey]

[2] A woodie isn't rougher than a steelie because the structure moves more. The movement of the structure makes it SMOOTHER, actually. You WANT that thing to move, trust me.

No offense dude, but the guy you are correcting works for GCI. Personally, I'm going to trust him.

 

--Robb

[ebl]

^ Very true. If wood doesn't move, it breaks. Especially here in earthquake country.

 

Eric

[asr]

[5] Launched and/or shuttle woodie. Sign me up! I'm not sure why nobody's done a shuttle woodie yet. The launch idea would depend on some sort of launch system that could handle the train moving back and forth a bit as the wood changes shape due to age and weather. You can't have the super-close tolerances of fins between LIMS or other such launch systems. You could, however, do a reverse-lift (like boomerang) pretty easily.

 

Someone else mentioned a hydraulic cable system like Intamin rocket coasters. And since El Toro already has a very fast cable lift, I'm thinking that might be a possibility.

[PURE]

Wow... so much to cover.

 

[1] Guide wheels on the outside of the rails doesn't make a coaster smoother. It's the amount of play between the wheels and the rails that matters. Whether that play is outside or inside the rails is irrelevant. A wood coaster is rough because the train bounces from rail to rail looking for center. Well, and other factors like aging, etc...

 

[2] A woodie isn't rougher than a steelie because the structure moves more. The movement of the structure makes it SMOOTHER, actually. You WANT that thing to move, trust me.

 

[6] I thought of trains that had seats mounted to poles with springs under them. In moments of airtime, the entire seat assembly raises up, guided by the posts. When it lands, the springs cushion the fall. What you get is super-exaggerated airtime sensations, since you AND the seat rise up. Crazy? Probably. But no crazier than some of the other stuff batted around in this thread!

 

Not taking shots at all, I just wanted to address some of your points. They made me think.

 

1. Play between the wheels and the rails are a major factor in how smooth a coaster is. But with the wheels of a wood coaster on the outside of the rails, I think the track, and wheel run surface could be better supported, causing less ware and tear on the ride overall, making and keeping it smoother. Think of the track on B&M's as compared to Arrows loopers. Those are great structures for coasters. If designed properly, the track could be adjusted and more consistent overall.

 

2. But the track in which the wheels ride moves and flexes on woodies less consistently than on steel, causing quicker damage. That's what makes an old wood ride rough, and a well designed new one smooth as glass. Usually steel coasters are rough because of the above mentioned wheel to rail gap, bad track transition design, or just plain getting old and used.

 

6. I like your thinking. Perhaps something more along the lines of an off road truck suspension would work out as well.

 

Wait, so whats this topic of this thread?

[verticalzero]

I found "Colossos" at Heide Park very smooth in 2005, the only rough part was the down-ward helix, it's fun being jolted up n down before returning to the smooth track and coming out of your seat on the hills towards the final turn

 

I am for more Prefabricated Track coasters being built, I'm sure all of the "woodies" purist will dis-agree, but the coaster companies have to cater for everyone.

 

Build normal and Prefabricated Track woodies and everyone should be happy.

 

Personally there is no limit in what a wooden coaster can do, depends if the park wants something different and unique.

 

Have in-line twists, more than 90 degree banked corners (e.g. MF), vertical loops, launched start, 97% 1st drop and all preformed with

"lap bars" never OHR.

 

Bring on the new era in wood coasters..

[FireHawk2k7]

^I would like to see any kind of wooden coaster do that. Kings Island tried to bring the new era of wooden coasters with Son of Beast and look what happened to that. I don't see anyone going all crazy trying to break records anytime soon.

[ginzo]

Instead of parks getting creative with new woodie installations, I'd settle for them to just maintain what they have properly. A return to proper restraints (buzzbars) would be nice as well, but that ain't going to happen.

[zingo]

Honestly, why would you want butter smooth woodies? There is a reason why woodies are so special, because they are what they are. The track sytem is they use is older than steel coasters and outdies wheels. Its part of what a wooden coaster is, and it should at no cost be changed!

 

Hell, I prefer a realy gold, old style woody over anything they could ever build!

[robbalvey]

^ Because it would seem that woodies built lately, most GCI's aside, seem to age very poorly.

 

I really can't think of many "modern" woodies that were built 5 or 10 years ago that really seem to be rideable today or have needed more than 1/2 of the track replaced.

 

I'd rather have a butter smooth top 5 woodie, than a top 5 woodie today which turns to complete crap in 5 years. *cough* GhostRider *cough*

 

--Robb

[RIP Psyclone]

^Does anyone know if any refurb was done during last month's closure of GhostRider, or if it was probably just installation of Haunt crap.

[texcoaster]

[2] A woodie isn't rougher than a steelie because the structure moves more. The movement of the structure makes it SMOOTHER, actually. You WANT that thing to move, trust me.

No offense dude, but the guy you are correcting works for GCI. Personally, I'm going to trust him.

 

--Robb

 

No offense, dude, but I was told my info from a guy from Gravity Group.

 

Between the two, I'll go with GG.

 

[robbalvey]

^ Really? Why? I don't see GCI woodies needing to have a thousand feet of track being replaced each year.

 

--Robb

[PURE]

^Does anyone know if any refurb was done during last month's closure of GhostRider, or if it was probably just installation of Haunt crap.

 

I thought they did a section of track every haunt as to keep it up in "some" pattern.

 

Gotta disagree about Ghostrider going to crap. Like most wood coasters almost decades old, its got rough spots. But I had an awesome ride on Ghostrider last Friday night at about 2 am. Fast as hell, rough in some spots, so much air on the 1st bunny and after safety's, overall probably one of the best rides i've had on a coaster in a long time.

 

2009: Pre-fab woodie at MM in graveyard coaster corner?

[robbalvey]

^ While I haven't been on it in about two years I also heard a report from someone who rode it just a couple of weeks ago and said "If I never ride it again, I won't care..."

 

They aren't a local and have no "home park bias" either.

 

--Robb "I guess I'd just have to go ride and find out for myself, but that would mean going to Knott's, so nevermind..." Alvey

[BarryH]

^I did ride Ghost Rider before the TPR Japan trip. It ran better than I remember from my 2005 ride. It was still a bit rough and by no means a top 10 coaster, though.

[downunder]

I rode Ghostrider after the Midwest Trip, and it was really rough, a lot rougher than when I last rode it September 2005 (after it's annual rehab). In 2005 it was rough in a fun way, 2007 it was rough in a can't wait for this ride to finish kind of way.

 

It's disappointing that Ghostrider has gone down so much, it used to be a fave, though now I have been on many of the great woodies courtesy of the Midwest Trip, it would be right down my rankings even in it's prime.

[darklingscribe]

^ Really? Why? I don't see GCI woodies needing to have a thousand feet of track being replaced each year.

 

--Robb

 

Best laugh I've had all day.

 

Though I'm no engineer, i do think there are many possibilities for wooden coaster to expand. Probably one of the best wooden coasters that I have been on is also probably one of the most unique in design, the lost Coaster of Superstition Mountain. Who ever said going bigger and faster is the future of coaster design?

[verticalzero]

As you said "bigger and faster coasters is not the future of coasting", I agree with you.

 

I'll like to see more exciting compact layouts like "Maverick", don't need to go over 200ft high, it's how the train keeps its speed up along the course which matters..