Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[RCjunkie]

So, last October I was talking with Valleyfair's GM Dave Frazier. he asked me if HydroBlaster should be part of the main park or the water park. I told him the waterpark. There was no option for just removing it outright. I believe that 2015 will see a great new water park addition as well as the return of HydroBlaster in its new home! What do you think?

 

If you talked to Dave Frasier you know more than I do for sure. With IMAX being gone I believe 2015 will bring the park a water park expansion for sure. Hydroblaster could easily return and I am with you thinking it would be better in the water park, it would get more use that way. My guess is Looping Starship will be removed or relocated with the water park expansion/addition so that will leave plenty of room to bring it back if they want. You get rid of that amphitheater next to Route 76 and you have a nice plot of land for some new flats or relocation of older ones. I am hoping Monster gets restored for next year like CP is doing this year. It would fit right in with the refurbished Scrambler and Tilter.

[RCjunkie]

You seriously would want an SLC or a Boomerang over a flying coaster? I'd rather ride a relatively low-force B&M flyer than get my head banged up on a Vekoma. I don't think that Valleyfair will get anything from Vekoma because with the exception of Boomerang at Worlds of Fun, all Cedar Fair Vekomas we're acquired in park buyouts, and I believe that Cedar Fair is aware that Vekoma coasters are not the best. Although, I don't think a B&M flyer is likely either for reasons I listed earlier.

 

I totally agree.

[VF15]

If/when VF gets a new coaster Excalibur will be demolished and the new ride will go in it's place. VF doesn't need more coasters, it just needs the quality of the coasters upgraded with new ones. I don't think VF has the foot traffic to justify a new coaster without taking out the operating expense of another one that is under performing like Excalibur. Excalibur is just a dog that will not hunt anymore. The ride does not open until noon on week days, usually only runs one train, is the only coaster in the park to be closed during Haunt and also the only coaster in the park that is NOT on the Fast Pass system because it is always a walk on anyway and just is not that popular of a ride at all. VF has flat rides on the FP system when Excalibur is not.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. While I personally like Excalibur more than Corkscrew and High Roller, if I had to choose a coaster that has to go, it would likely be Excalibur because removing it would probably be the smartest decision. I've heard some people say that Corkscrew should be the coaster to go, but there are several reasons why it probably isn't: it was just repainted a few years ago, it is the park's only inverting coaster, it fits in well with Planet Snoopy, and it honestly isn't a bad ride because it doesn't have as much as similar coasters. Also, there really isn't any way to fit in a decent sized coaster in Corkscrew's area. I would also say that about Excalibur, but I believe the park owns more land beyond that area.

[garyman6]

So, last October I was talking with Valleyfair's GM Dave Frazier. he asked me if HydroBlaster should be part of the main park or the water park. I told him the waterpark. There was no option for just removing it outright. I believe that 2015 will see a great new water park addition as well as the return of HydroBlaster in its new home! What do you think?

 

If you talked to Dave Frasier you know more than I do for sure. With IMAX being gone I believe 2015 will bring the park a water park expansion for sure. Hydroblaster could easily return and I am with you thinking it would be better in the water park, it would get more use that way. My guess is Looping Starship will be removed or relocated with the water park expansion/addition so that will leave plenty of room to bring it back if they want. You get rid of that amphitheater next to Route 76 and you have a nice plot of land for some new flats or relocation of older ones. I am hoping Monster gets restored for next year like CP is doing this year. It would fit right in with the refurbished Scrambler and Tilter.

Moving the looping starship is probably a good bet. There are plenty of areas to put it. Mr. Frazier asked me for idea's on what to replace the tilter and scrambler site's with. A "Tango" manufactured by KMG would be a great addition next to Wild Thing where the tilter was. They do have park models available! What do you think?

[RCjunkie]

^ Sounds good to me. A Giant Huss Frisbee works for me too. Any new and thrilling flats would be great, the park can always use more flat rides. I like the Xtreme Swings and try to ride them every time I visit. Tell Mr. Frazier he can bounce idea's off me anytime and I'll pay for lunch.

[RCjunkie]

Yeah, you're probably right. While I personally like Excalibur more than Corkscrew and High Roller, if I had to choose a coaster that has to go, it would likely be Excalibur because removing it would probably be the smartest decision. I've heard some people say that Corkscrew should be the coaster to go, but there are several reasons why it probably isn't: it was just repainted a few years ago, it is the park's only inverting coaster, it fits in well with Planet Snoopy, and it honestly isn't a bad ride because it doesn't have as much as similar coasters. Also, there really isn't any way to fit in a decent sized coaster in Corkscrew's area. I would also say that about Excalibur, but I believe the park owns more land beyond that area.

 

Corkscrew at least runs 2 trains and still has lines unlike Excalibur. Corkscrew does have to go someday too but like you said it just got painted and it is the parks only inverted coaster so it will still be here for a while but that does not mean it doesn't need to leave. CS does run smooth for a corkscrew so kudos to the maintenance team at the park but I think we will see CS go once CP announces they will be getting rid of the their corkscrew and MiA will follow along with us. Who knows when it will leave but my guess is it will leave before High Roller. I know High Roller does not ride as great as it did during it's glory days with the trim on the turnaround turned up so high now, it really takes the thunder and air out of the bunny hills on the way back. Too bad you didn't get to ride it in the 70's and 80's before that happened. It is still a decent mid size coaster but not what it used to be. Personally I hope it stays as long as it can because I think every park should have an old school white out and back woody. Someday though that day will come when it needs to come down and that will provide a lot of space plus there is even more space north of High Roller where the picnic area used to be. I think there is a decent amount of space if you remove CS and use the land left vacant after the Camp Snoopy upgrade. Below I have CS outlined in Red and the extra area next to it vacated by old kiddy rides in Blue. You could move the loading station and set up a new coaster. Both the Red and Blue areas together would provide some decent room for a mid size or family coaster. It would have to be built over the water like CS but that could turn out pretty cool.

Corkscrew Google view.

[JonnyRCT3]

^I'm actualy in the process of creating a mid-sized inverted coaster (NL) on that exact spot.

[jzoole]

I've often thought a compact custom B&M invert would be awesome right there.

[garyman6]

Yeah, you're probably right. While I personally like Excalibur more than Corkscrew and High Roller, if I had to choose a coaster that has to go, it would likely be Excalibur because removing it would probably be the smartest decision. I've heard some people say that Corkscrew should be the coaster to go, but there are several reasons why it probably isn't: it was just repainted a few years ago, it is the park's only inverting coaster, it fits in well with Planet Snoopy, and it honestly isn't a bad ride because it doesn't have as much as similar coasters. Also, there really isn't any way to fit in a decent sized coaster in Corkscrew's area. I would also say that about Excalibur, but I believe the park owns more land beyond that area.

 

Corkscrew at least runs 2 trains and still has lines unlike Excalibur. Corkscrew does have to go someday too but like you said it just got painted and it is the parks only inverted coaster so it will still be here for a while but that does not mean it doesn't need to leave. CS does run smooth for a corkscrew so kudos to the maintenance team at the park but I think we will see CS go once CP announces they will be getting rid of the their corkscrew and MiA will follow along with us. Who knows when it will leave but my guess is it will leave before High Roller. I know High Roller does not ride as great as it did during it's glory days with the trim on the turnaround turned up so high now, it really takes the thunder and air out of the bunny hills on the way back. Too bad you didn't get to ride it in the 70's and 80's before that happened. It is still a decent mid size coaster but not what it used to be. Personally I hope it stays as long as it can because I think every park should have an old school white out and back woody. Someday though that day will come when it needs to come down and that will provide a lot of space plus there is even more space north of High Roller where the picnic area used to be. I think there is a decent amount of space if you remove CS and use the land left vacant after the Camp Snoopy upgrade. Below I have CS outlined in Red and the extra area next to it vacated by old kiddy rides in Blue. You could move the loading station and set up a new coaster. Both the Red and Blue areas together would provide some decent room for a mid size or family coaster. It would have to be built over the water like CS but that could turn out pretty cool.

Let's not limit ourselves to just within the lines. Who says it can't wrap around power tower? Look at what they have stuffed into Nick U. and they have plans for more! Let's hope for something bigger!

[DevinC049]

YES PLEASE on the flat ride!

 

Good points all on removing excalibur. Honestly when I went I quite enjoyed the ride, but for the reasons you listed it does make sense for it to be the one to go. They can do quite a bit in that area as EC doesn't really uses is space too well with its layout either. I really don't mind arrow coasters at all, and for a CS I quite enjoy the one at VF, and don't think EC is too bad either- however you all make great points with EC running one train, opening late, closing early, etc. Makes sense.

 

I do like the idea of the location next to CS for the invert though. I think closer to the front of the park might be a better idea, especially because renegade is so far back. Putting the two 'newest' coaster by each other, per says, seems like it'd draw too much attention to the back of the park, yeah?

[garyman6]

^I'm actualy in the process of creating a mid-sized inverted coaster (NL) on that exact spot.

 

Have the coaster wrap around Power Tower!

[valleyfairfanatic]

I'm not a huge fan of flying coasters, I do agree the g forces in the pretzel loop are insane but thats really the only thing that it has going for it, I could see a vekoma SLC or a boomerang coaster coming in the near future, maybe a cheap b&m invert

 

You seriously would want an SLC or a Boomerang over a flying coaster? I'd rather ride a relatively low-force B&M flyer than get my head banged up on a Vekoma. I don't think that Valleyfair will get anything from Vekoma because with the exception of Boomerang at Worlds of Fun, all Cedar Fair Vekomas we're acquired in park buyouts, and I believe that Cedar Fair is aware that Vekoma coasters are not the best. Although, I don't think a B&M flyer is likely either for reasons I listed earlier.

 

 

No, i said nothing like that, don't get me wrong I love b&m, I'm not a huge fan of vekoma, i would not prefer a vekoma SLC over a flying coaster, I'm just saying in my opinion I think it is more likely due to the cost of them, or there is a possibility of vf getting a cheap b&m like the size of patriot

[VF15]

Let's not limit ourselves to just within the lines. Who says it can't wrap around power tower? Look at what they have stuffed into Nick U. and they have plans for more! Let's hope for something bigger!

 

I've always thought that a coaster at Valleyfair that travels over the midways would be a cool idea. It would be similar to how Wild Thing's figure-8 crosses over the walkway to soon-to-be Route 76, but much more of the ride would take place over the midways. Pespi Orange Streak at Nickelodeon Universe is a good example of this. It would also be cool if they could do something Gatekeeper-like and have a coaster travel over the entrance.

[garyman6]

Let's not limit ourselves to just within the lines. Who says it can't wrap around power tower? Look at what they have stuffed into Nick U. and they have plans for more! Let's hope for something bigger!

 

I've always thought that a coaster at Valleyfair that travels over the midways would be a cool idea. It would be similar to how Wild Thing's figure-8 crosses over the walkway to soon-to-be Route 76, but much more of the ride would take place over the midways. Pespi Orange Streak at Nickelodeon Universe is a good example of this. It would also be cool if they could do something Gatekeeper-like and have a coaster travel over the entrance.

 

I've noticed that a lot of the new coasters are using tunnels as well as over the midway. Let's not get stuck on the idea that a roller coaster has to stick within a box. Watch the POV for Nemesis. An amazing B&M invert. The que line actually goes through one of the loops. VF may have height restrictions but that doesn't mean we cant have great coasters. We could actually have an B&M invert that would be the worlds tallest. Banshee kept I believe just 2 feet short of the world record for height. Why? I've read rumors that they may bring that record to VF. Doesn't mean it has to be the longest! Just a couple of thoughts!

[gerstlaueringvar]

How about an X-Car SkyLoop XT-900?

[DanTheBooker]

How about an X-Car SkyLoop XT-900?

Unlikely. I don't believe CF has ever bought Mauer Schoen (SP). Perhaps we will see the tallest inverted rollercoaster come to VF.

[VF15]

Let's not limit ourselves to just within the lines. Who says it can't wrap around power tower? Look at what they have stuffed into Nick U. and they have plans for more! Let's hope for something bigger!

 

I've always thought that a coaster at Valleyfair that travels over the midways would be a cool idea. It would be similar to how Wild Thing's figure-8 crosses over the walkway to soon-to-be Route 76, but much more of the ride would take place over the midways. Pespi Orange Streak at Nickelodeon Universe is a good example of this. It would also be cool if they could do something Gatekeeper-like and have a coaster travel over the entrance.

 

I've noticed that a lot of the new coasters are using tunnels as well as over the midway. Let's not get stuck on the idea that a roller coaster has to stick within a box. Watch the POV for Nemesis. An amazing B&M invert. The que line actually goes through one of the loops. VF may have height restrictions but that doesn't mean we cant have great coasters. We could actually have an B&M invert that would be the worlds tallest. Banshee kept I believe just 2 feet short of the world record for height. Why? I've read rumors that they may bring that record to VF. Doesn't mean it has to be the longest! Just a couple of thoughts!

 

Sorry, but the world's tallest invert isn't going to happen at Valleyfair. Any steel coaster that breaks records usually costs in excess of $20 million, and because of their budget, I wouldn't expect VF to pay more than $15 million. Technically, the world's new tallest invert would have to be at least 216 feet tall because Wicked Twister (215 feet tall) is the true tallest invert. Besides, I really don't think that anything record breaking would fit in at VF. Yes, Wild Thing does have the world's longest zero-G section, but it's not exactly the most noteworthy record out there.

[RCjunkie]

^ Wicked Twister is considered a Impulse or Shuttle coaster and not an Invert so to get 'tallest invert' would not be that hard. Cut 800-1000 feet off Banshee to make it as long and costly as Patriot but just have the tallest record. Patriot is taller than Raptor but not longer. This is not probable but definitely possible.

[Diamondbacker27]

ValleyFair won't get any record breaking things most likely.

 

Maybe

"Tallest coaster in the area!"

"Fastest Coaster to ever hit VF!"

[garyman6]

Let's not limit ourselves to just within the lines. Who says it can't wrap around power tower? Look at what they have stuffed into Nick U. and they have plans for more! Let's hope for something bigger!

 

I've always thought that a coaster at Valleyfair that travels over the midways would be a cool idea. It would be similar to how Wild Thing's figure-8 crosses over the walkway to soon-to-be Route 76, but much more of the ride would take place over the midways. Pespi Orange Streak at Nickelodeon Universe is a good example of this. It would also be cool if they could do something Gatekeeper-like and have a coaster travel over the entrance.

 

I've noticed that a lot of the new coasters are using tunnels as well as over the midway. Let's not get stuck on the idea that a roller coaster has to stick within a box. Watch the POV for Nemesis. An amazing B&M invert. The que line actually goes through one of the loops. VF may have height restrictions but that doesn't mean we cant have great coasters. We could actually have an B&M invert that would be the worlds tallest. Banshee kept I believe just 2 feet short of the world record for height. Why? I've read rumors that they may bring that record to VF. Doesn't mean it has to be the longest! Just a couple of thoughts!

 

Sorry, but the world's tallest invert isn't going to happen at Valleyfair. Any steel coaster that breaks records usually costs in excess of $20 million, and because of their budget, I wouldn't expect VF to pay more than $15 million. Technically, the world's new tallest invert would have to be at least 216 feet tall because Wicked Twister (215 feet tall) is the true tallest invert. Besides, I really don't think that anything record breaking would fit in at VF. Yes, Wild Thing does have the world's longest zero-G section, but it's not exactly the most noteworthy record out there.

 

I meant to say full circuit invert. 170' would set a new world record. Put it into the 3500' range and that might fall into the 15 million category. Let's not forget though that along with Carrowinds and California's Great America, Valleyfair has been earmarked by Cedarfair Corporate for significant growth. Maybe 20 million is not out of the question.

Let's also remember that Cedarfair has some history of putting record breakers or near record breakers into Valleyfair. When Wild Thing opened it was the world's second tallest coaster just behind Magnum XL-200. Only a couple of feet separated them. Also, Power Tower was slated to be 300' tall but had to be shortened due to Flying Cloud Airport across the river. I believe that would have been a record at the time.

Does everyone know how Cedarfair got it's name? Cedar Point, a single park, decided that they wanted to expand into an amusement park company. Their first acquisition was, you guessed it, Valleyfair! They took "Cedar" and "Fair" to form the corporate name of Cedarfair. So given the historical value that Valleyfair has in the Cedarfair chain, Valleyfair should really be one of their flagship parks!

[garyman6]

ValleyFair won't get any record breaking things most likely.

 

Maybe

"Tallest coaster in the area!"

"Fastest Coaster to ever hit VF!"

They already have the tallest and fastest coaster in the area! Wild Thing! 207 feet and 74 mph! Magnum is clocked at 72 mph.

Edited April 23, 2014 by garyman6

[Diamondbacker27]

"Even more tallest thing in the area!"

"Only 11 inversion coaster at ValleyFair!!"

[VF15]

I meant to say full circuit invert. 170' would set a new world record. Put it into the 3500' range and that might fall into the 15 million category. Let's not forget though that along with Carrowinds and California's Great America, Valleyfair has been earmarked by Cedarfair Corporate for significant growth. Maybe 20 million is not out of the question.

Let's also remember that Cedarfair has some history of putting record breakers or near record breakers into Valleyfair. When Wild Thing opened it was the world's second tallest coaster just behind Magnum XL-200. Only a couple of feet separated them. Also, Power Tower was slated to be 300' tall but had to be shortened due to Flying Cloud Airport across the river. I believe that would have been a record at the time.

Does everyone know how Cedarfair got it's name? Cedar Point, a single park, decided that they wanted to expand into an amusement park company. Their first acquisition was, you guessed it, Valleyfair! They took "Cedar" and "Fair" to form the corporate name of Cedarfair. So given the historical value that Valleyfair has in the Cedarfair chain, Valleyfair should really be one of their flagship parks!

 

If you're talking about full-circuit inverts, then it would have to be at least 196 feet tall because Alpengeist is 195 feet tall. I am aware that Valleyfair was noted as having potential for significant growth, but still, I don't want to set my expectations too high, or else I might be setting myself up for disappointment. Also, I couldn't agree with you more on the second part. Valleyfair puts the "Fair" in "Cedar Fair", but yet they've never gotten the treatment that Cedar Point has. Valleyfair will never be a Cedar Point, but for being one of the company's first parks, it really gets ignored and left behind.

[Diamondbacker27]

I'm almost positive Cedar Fair had the name way before they even bought ValleyFair. (if it was part of the Paramount Purchase)

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure that's not where they got the name.

And just because of that, it doesn't make the park higher in rank. I mean it does deserve more attractions, but it doesn't make near as much money as the other parks.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Diamondbacker27

[BisonRugbyGuy]

As a past employee of Valleyfair, I can confirm the "fair" in "Cedar Fair" came from Valleyfair.