Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[dippindotsguy8]

Wait, what is that giant hole next to the Orange/yellow building (I have never been in the water park so I don't know what it is called)? It has some really sharp corners, does anyone know what is going on there?

 

I really hope that we see some construction soon, but has any parts arrived at the park yet? I might need to point out I know NOTHING about water slides, waterparks, or how they are made, but does anyone know what the supports will be made of (wood or steel)?

 

 

The orange/yellow building is a changing facility with showers and bathrooms. My guess would be that the hole is for the splash pad.... possibly for new pipes or something.

 

I would assume the supports will be steel, as that's what most modern structures have been.

[ariznglori]

There's a lot more space there than I thought. The slide complex will look very impressive!

[CaptainUnknown]

Holiday World: Thunderbird's track is complete!

Valleyfair: Still pushing dirt (and snow).

[VF15]

^

[madsecar]

This really needs to happen. The amount of space it would open up is massive. They could easily transform the front gate and the whole front of the park. Also, they could easily fit a B&M Invert along with the new gate.

[GCI Wooden]

^ Yes, I have always wondered why they haven't used that land. It would open up SO much space, but right now it is just grass. I believe that the parking lot is on high ground, so it shouldn't flood each year (or at least not as much), so it makes sense to put the rides there, but I would imagine it would cost a ton of money.

[VF15]

This really needs to happen. The amount of space it would open up is massive. They could easily transform the front gate and the whole front of the park. Also, they could easily fit a B&M Invert along with the new gate.

 

I like your thinking, but unfortunately, Valleyfair/Cedar Fair doesn't own all of that land shown. If they turned some of that land they own right next to the entrance into a parking lot, and they used the area with the cones that valleyfairfanatic reported for new park additions, maybe that could work. Although, that would be an awfully long walk for anyone parking in that theoretical new parking lot.

[VFFTW]

Management did mention at the beginning of the season that the current employee parking situation is non-ideal since the employee lot is dirt but can't be paved since it floods so frequently (it's outside the dike), and that they'd like to do something about it. So it's clear there's some thought going on involving changing the parking situation...

[ariznglori]

Can anyone hazard a guess as to how much it would cost to raise and extend the berms around the park and parking lot to make future flooding a non issue? I can't imagine it would be more than the cost of a rollercoaster, and it would probably be a great boost to the park's attendance and profits from what I hear about people avoiding the park when Renegade is closed off from flooding (why go when the star attraction is underwater)--and it can nip the negative press in the bud. It could possibly help lower flood insurance payments, which I'm sure aren't cheap for the park...

 

I'm afraid that the flooding this year is going to negatively affect Cedar Fair's plans for Valleyfair's development over the next few years by the way it was referred to in the quarterly reports (tough weather and park flooding preventing profits from meeting expectations, etc.). Of course I'm most likely overreacting.

 

I understand that there are restrictions on the park in regards to the berms by a government agency mentioned somewhere in this thread, I just don't remember which one.

[dippindotsguy8]

Can anyone hazard a guess as to how much it would cost to raise and extend the berms around the park and parking lot to make future flooding a non issue? I can't imagine it would be more than the cost of a rollercoaster, and it would probably be a great boost to the park's attendance and profits from what I hear about people avoiding the park when Renegade is closed off from flooding (why go when the star attraction is underwater)--and it can nip the negative press in the bud. It could possibly help lower flood insurance payments, which I'm sure aren't cheap for the park...

 

I'm afraid that the flooding this year is going to negatively affect Cedar Fair's plans for Valleyfair's development over the next few years by the way it was referred to in the quarterly reports (tough weather and park flooding preventing profits from meeting expectations, etc.). Of course I'm most likely overreacting.

 

I understand that there are restrictions on the park in regards to the berms by a government agency mentioned somewhere in this thread, I just don't remember which one.

 

It could be possible, but something to keep in mind is that there's still a good deal of space that can be used within the existing park right now. With the various relocations and removals of flats over the years, and the SBNO amphitheater, they've got awhile before they will really need to expand the current boundaries of the park. Also, last year was one of the first years in a long time that Renegade has been under water during the actual operating season, if I remember correctly. I just don't see a justification of the cost of such a huge project right now.

 

Maybe it will happen eventually, but I don't see such a huge investment taking place when it's still largely unnecessary.

[VF15]

^

I agree. Plus, even though Valleyfair does get flooded often, it generally happens when the snow melts in the early spring before the park opens for the season, so it doesn't regularly affect normal park operations. This year, it was caused by the unusually rainy June. Since park flooding mid-season doesn't happen that often, I don't see a need to raise the flood berms anytime soon.

 

Also, if any of you have driven by the park since it closed, what's the situation with the old sign? Have they removed it yet, or is it still there?

[Mdcastle]

I agree that there's too much underutilized land inside the park to justify expansion. Also, Frazier may not want to give up any of the small coaster but nothing lasts forever and with Arrow out of business it may not even be possible to maintain Corkscrew and Excalibur forever.

 

Sign was still there when I drove by last night.

[GCI Wooden]

^ I believe S&S makes Arrow parts, so it shouldn't be a problem. I am interested what the new sign will look like, if there is a new sign (I'm still dreaming that it won't be replaced).

[Lareson]

Cedar Fair also has quite a few Arrow trains floating around the chain as well for parts. The Orient Express and Double Loop trains were parted out and distributed around the chain. You are correct though, S&S still has a warehouse full of Arrow looping train parts and I've heard they still make some of the "disposable" parts like the wheels. Not entirely sure if they make parts though for Arrow's other coasters and rides, like the Mad Mouse coasters, mine train coasters, and the trains used on Gemini and Excalibur.

 

But anyway, parts won't be an issue for any of the Arrow coasters. Between S&S and I've also heard that Vekoma has also been making a few parts as well. Of anything that'll be the demise of the Arrow coasters are the tracks. A lot of their coasters built between the mid 70's and up until the early 90's, did not exactly have great building standards. Seam welds weren't placed in ideal places because it was built in one continuous piece of track and no flanges that could hold together much better than a weld, supports were placed in areas along the track that could support the structure with some excess stress, but I don't think they took into account lateral forces until CAD came around. It wasn't until the late 90's when Arrow started building track in a factory and using CAD to design their coasters, and unfortunately came at their worst time with the rise of Intamin and B&M.

 

It's why I see so many pictures of Arrow's coasters from around the time they were built and then comparing them to pictures of how they look now, there's so many additions to the track and supports because they didn't account for the stress placed on the structure. If anything, it's why I see some of their more tame coasters, like Gemini, Excalibur, and the mine coasters with wooden supports outliving their all-steel counterparts is because they were designed with wooden roller coaster supports that can flex and damper the forces better. Arrow was for sure ahead of their time creating those hybrid coasters and why I see RMC as taking the technology that Arrow started years ago and bringing it into the modern era.

[CaptainUnknown]

^And there's also the possibility of a Vekoma train on Arrow coasters. Arrow trains have gone on Vekoma coasters before.

[ariznglori]

^And there's also the possibility of a Vekoma train on Arrow coasters. Arrow trains have gone on Vekoma coasters before.

 

Is a Vekoma train capable of going on a Morgan?

[MinnesotaFriedOreo]

No, I don't think so. It's a different size.

[MinnesotaFriedOreo]

I'm still holding out for our invert

[VFFTW]

Can anyone hazard a guess as to how much it would cost to raise and extend the berms around the park and parking lot to make future flooding a non issue?

 

What I've heard in the past is that the park can't expand the dikes without permission from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service since the park borders the MN River Valley National Wildlife Refuge, and that permission is unlikely to be forthcoming since expansion of the dikes would affect something related to the waterfowl that inhabit the river in the area by the park (I can't remember exactly what). Expanding the dikes is probably the single best thing the park could do with regards to long-run planning but it's probably impossible. It's frustrating since without the flooding issues, VF has one of the biggest expansion potentials of any park in the chain (and maybe the country) in terms of the unused land around it that CF owns.

[VF15]

^ I believe S&S makes Arrow parts, so it shouldn't be a problem. I am interested what the new sign will look like, if there is a new sign (I'm still dreaming that it won't be replaced).

It's pretty much been confirmed that it's leaving based on some info I read on the City of Shakopee website. I hope that they can preserve the old sign in some way (maybe some museum could get it). I'm sure the new sign will look a lot more modern, and will have the new logo.

 

I'm still holding out for our invert

[Mdcastle]

I've emailed the Minot and Cleveland neon museums and neither have responded. If they could put it up as a backdrop for Route 66 they'd have spares for each transformer and section of tubing from the other side, and dim tubing wouldn't matter as much, but of course it won't happen. I'm not an electrician or tube bender but I have worked on neon signs before, so I get the difficulty of maintaining these things, and eventually the mercury / argon filled tubes get so dim you need to replace them at enormous expense (the letters themselves are neon filled and don't get dim). I mentioned it to a local neon shop when I had some tubes bent last summer, but they have no outdoor storage and don't do work on that sign, or know which shop does.

 

There's also Pioneer Village, the place that took the Cottage View Drive-in sign and Porky's. I don't recall if I contacted them or not.

[GCI Wooden]

It's pretty much been confirmed that it's leaving

 

Shhhh. I can dream

[CaptainUnknown]

It's pretty much been confirmed that it's leaving

 

Shhhh. I can dream

 

Nightmares are dreams too. Sorry.

[danderson83]

I'm still holding out for our invert

 

Me too!!

[VF15]

The webcam angle shifted down a bit, and it shows more of the area where the splash pad is going. I wonder if this means we'll see more work in that area soon.

Edit: Never mind, this is probably why...