Leaderboard
Popular Content
Showing content with the highest reputation on 09/23/2021 in all areas
-
Photo TR: Friday/Saturday, September 17th and 18th: Day One So this was my first ever trip to Cedar Point during Halloweekends proper; I did visit in the fall last year during the Tricks & Treats Festival but as we all know, that's not the same. Any frequenter of these boards knows the horror stories from Halloweekends past....massive understaffed, huge crowds, closed rides, mediocre haunts. Was that my experience, in this twisted, messed up year? Read on to find out. So I got into town around 4, and got settled in to my hotel, the Super 8 Wyndam Sandusky. For those unaware, this is the old Econo Lodge North that gets heaps of praise. Pretty much the same, just a different name - pool is still open until 11:00 PM, still right across from the Thirsty Pony, but no smoking rooms anymore, which is quite a disappointment. Posted park opening time was 6:00 PM, so I arrived at around 5:15 expecting to stand around for a while, but, what was this...? Yes, that's riders on Gatekeeper! Apparently, early entry operates as normal during Halloweekends, despite not being published anywhere. One hour before the published park opening, for Gold/Platinum Passholders and hotel guests, including all of the standard early entry rides. Hopped right on Raptor for a walk-on, back-row right-side ride. Awesome as always. Little bit surprising to see they already had a grave stone for Wicked Twister. Note that there has been no deconstruction on it, and the train is still sitting right there in the station, fully intact. Next up was Millennium Force. A 25 minute wait for the front row. I'm glad to see groupers here not being as anal as they have been earlier in the year, and actually honoring requests. Took a stroll through the Frontier Trail, which is apparently one of only two areas of the park (along with Frontier Town) where Haunt actually is, checking out the scenery while still in the daylight. Upon reaching the end, hopped on Maverick for a 13 minute wait for the front row. I know this is normally a back-row ride, but I hadn't ridden in the front all year, so figured what the heck. Awesome ride as always, and still my number 1 overall. As my goal for Friday wasn't particularly rides, but instead the Haunt attractions, I took a casual stroll the other way (past Gemini, which was not running), Magnum, and Corkscrew back towards the front of the park. Of course, I stopped for a quick ride on Magnum, for a two train wait for row two. Thankfully the "seat belt trick" worked this time, unlike my last lap during my previous trip when my thighs got destroyed. Of note, all the Dragster trains were fully assembled and sitting on the storage tracks. Guess that part of the investigation is done? Don't get too excited, that shipping container hiding behind the wall is for the kiddie Halloweekends stuff, not the future transport of Wicked Twister. Its fate remains unknown. Upon reaching the very front of the park, I still had some time to kill, so I hopped on Gatekeeper for a one-train wait for the back row, left wing. I'm always amazed with the very minor grey-out I get at the bottom of the pretzel loop, with such an otherwise boring layout. With about 15 minutes to go, I parked myself outside Hexed waiting for 8:00 and the Haunt activities to being proper. They had this cool animatronic rock monster thing out front, which was unfortunately not very active. So, how was my first ever Cedar Point haunted house, and my first haunted house period in almost 2 years? Incredible! Lots of actors, super long, and hands down the best artistry I've ever seen in a Cedar Fair haunted house. Everything about the decorations and music was on point, and I left very, very impressed. I was in line right at opening, so I only had two groups in front of me. I would not luck out so well as my next destination, G.A. Boeklings Eerie Estate. I got in line, and was maybe 150-200 people back from the entrance, and waited. And didn't move. And waited some more. And didn't move some more. After about 10 minutes of literally not moving at all, I said "screw it," ducked into the nearest store, and bought myself a Fright Lane pass. With that in hand, I waited 5 minutes and was equally impressed with this house. Again, lots of actors, super long, and once again the artistry was very well done (though it could have probably used a little brighter lighting inside). Continuing on towards the rest of the Haunt stuff in the Frontier area, I passed by the stage and caught a picture of the music show (which I would experience fully the next day).... ...and this cool coffin photo opportunity (for the low-low price of only $10 a person). Now, here we go. I was quite surprised that Cedar Point tends to keep the Haunt-related stuff confined to only two areas of the park, as opposed to the standard CF model of doing it everywhere. Maybe a product of reduced staffing, but I actually think it's a good idea to keep the rest of the park non-spooky for the families with small kids. Yep, this is what I'm used to! Made my way up to Slaughter House, the standard Cedar Fair "butcher shop" haunt. Quite yawn here. Again about a 5 minute wait here, and notably they did not punch the Fright Lane card at this one. Though it was long, it's a tired theme that probably needs to get retired. One cool thing was that there were rooms with re-assemebled "human" bodies and lots of parts of humans in the cutting equipment, more than I typically see at the ones I've been through at other CF parks. Though, I was amused by the length of the standby line: Apparently these maze lines would get to around 2 hours and hover there both nights. $75 well spent on the Fright Lane. While waiting, I snapped this (I think) awesome pic of Dragster through the Frontier Fling's arch with the fog and flood lighting in the full effect. And there was even some natural themeing in the queue: real live spiders! They were honestly all over the place at the park. Next up was "Cornstalkers 2.0 - Revenge of the Pumpkin Heads," which takes the record for longest Haunt maze name ever. Yawn here as well (again, about a 5 minute wait). There's so much they could do with these corn mazes, but they choose not to. This one featured almost entirely straight walkways, then some gentle bend, then some more straight walkways, with a decided lack of actors. There was one part where the path splits into three directions, and I got super excited for some dead ends, or at least branching paths, but no...all three just continued straight for around 100 feet then rejoined to the same path. One bright spot was a cool animatronic pumpkin-head corn monster at the end, but this was amusingly the only "pumpkin-head" thing I saw in the entire maze; not exactly a "revenge" haha. Notably, the entire maze reeked of aerosol, presumably from whatever fire-retardant stuff they spray on the corn to avoid a disaster. It was quite long, but exited substantially farther south than the entrance...great if you were going that way, not so much if you were headed north, as I was. Next was Fearground Freakshow. They had this guy out front on the podium, acting like a typical carnival barker, interacting with the crowd, which was cool. Inside was quite entertaining, with a lot of great props and gags featuring the actors, but this one was a little on the short side. About a 5 minute wait with Fright Lane, and they didn't punch the card here either. The standby queue wraps around the whole building 3 or 4 times...yikes. Was this where the Frontier Carousel used to be? I can't figure out what else this building might have been used for in the past. I then took a walk through Cutthroat Cove, which is just advertised as a scare zone, but in actuality was much more like a proper haunt maze except with no line at all! Great long walk through Maverick's infield, with some great artistry and scares, tons of fog, an awesome animatronic snake which pops out from behind some curtains, and some simulated cannon fire. Unfortunately, the exit for this one is always quite a bit away from the entrance (the entrance is near the train station and the exit is way back near the entrance to the rapids ride). Seeing no line at Cedar Creek Mine Ride, I hopped on for a half-train wait for row 8. Quite impressive at night; I was expecting it to be worse than during the day due to not being able to see what's coming that well but it was surprisingly good...maybe even better than during the day? I gotta say, Steel Vengeance looks pretty cool at night. How does it ride at night? Holy shit is that incredible! Great night ride even though its so lit up, I can't imagine how crazy it would be if it were darker. 23 minutes from getting in line to getting my phone from the free lockers in the queue, for the back row. At this point, it was past 11:00, and I had been up since 5:00 AM, so I decided to call it a night and make my way back towards the front to dodge all of the crowds leaving at midnight at park close. I did hop on Iron Dragon, seeing no wait, for my first ever night ride (half-train wait for front row). Quite impressive here as well; I mean it's no Big Bad Wolf at night, but still quite good. And, we end this day one report the same way it started: VID_20210917_233733469.mp4 See you again in the next post for day two!2 points
-
1 point
-
SFOG continued. . . after my ride on Justice League, I decided I'd head over towards Pandemonium. . as noted, the paths around Carousel Hill really are quite lovely: (I see you, and will get to you later!) but what's this? Blue Hawk/Ninja has no line. . like at all? sigh.. ok, might as well, it's not the worst coaster in the park. how the park is handling Covid restrictions. . tho this wasn't consistent across all coasters. But here in the Blue Hawk station, the plexiglass really cuts the airflow, and made it a bit stifling. it's actually riding better than I remembered, and not too much head bang. Still 1 and done tho. leaving the queue tho, I saw that GASM was truly a walk on. I KNOW better. . but sometimes I make really bad decisions. . . Even in the front row, it jackhammered the hell out of me.. not a pleasant experience (and there was crying from kids on the train in the brake run. . so yeah. . hands down still the worst coaster in the park). oh. . but while on GASM, I noticed that Blue Hawk had gotten stuck on the lift hill. . . really moments after I had just ridden! It was like this for a good 15 minutes. Continuing my treck around this part of the park to Pandemonium. . it really is lovely back here, but I miss the Skybuckets bypassed Skyscreamer since just wasn't in the mood for it.. besides, I was headed to the giant swing. hmmm. . I don't seem to have taken any pics of it other than the sign tho. . LOL. . but it was a 1 cycle wait (so yeah. . the park was still dead) see? note that Thunder River was closed as well.. so both water rides (the flume was closed too) were closed on Labor Day. It's the last "daily" operating day of summer.. so not surprised, but it seemed to have more to do with staffing - as many food places were shuttered too. But for the most part, all the "big" rides were open today, which was a nice surprise. since no skybuckets to save my feet/calves, I headed up the long winding walkway, intending to grab something to eat as i was hungry. as mentioned, many food places were closed, but Macho Nacho was open - with the line out the door.. . . so nope, kept walking and peeked around into the Goliath queue: Station wait. yup. .this is Exactly why I typically blow off last day of Con to do Six Flags: Interesting view of the Monster Mansion show building from the Goliath exit ramp. I had planned to buy water, to keep from getting dehydrated, but the Cashier in the exit gift shop warned me the coolers weren't working (and hadn't been all summer, so the water was warm). Six Flags hint, by the way. . if you buy water/soda in a shop, you can usually get a 2 for $ price that is cheaper from the machines. but I wasn't gonna get from the machine no matter how thirsty I was. . so instead headed over to Gotham expecting to get something to eat/drink. passing by DareDevil Dive. . which had a short-ish line, but as I'm not a fan, I decided to skip this today. Still snapped some pics of it tho: and then it was down into the New Gotham area. . advertised all over the park as new for 2021.. I was excited to check it out. if you're not familiar with this park, the Gotham area is down a steep hill, under the train tracks, then in it's own area - with basically one way in/one way out. the area has 7 rides (2 coasters, 5 flats), and one food stand (Birds of Prey Cafe) - that had a fairly long line, that I waited in, only to be told at the counter there's no way to order from the counter, you MUST use the Mobile App - which *of course* wouldn't work for me while in Gotham area. . . yeah, I was hungry and annoyed at this point - and made sure to comment on this when they sent me the survey to see how my day went. at least ONE window at the only food stand in Gotham should have walk up to order option. . sheesh. but I'm getting a head of myself. back to the pics, going into Gotham: ah.. HERE were the crowds today. (makes sense.. they are advertising it all over the park - even over the urinals in the Men's rooms): and it's a cul-de-sac area. . so once in, traffic flow can get cramped. let's check out the 7 rides here: Closed: Closed (AND they renamed it from the *brilliant* Crime Wave to Supervillains Swing?) closed (tho it had soft opened for rehearsals the day before, and is open now, I understand) one of the new rides, so was pulling a line, as I'd expect. . especially since 3 of the 4 rides passed already were closed. Closed (you gotta be f-ing kidding me) the other new ride.. and one of only two flats (and one coaster, Batman - running 1 train - open in this section of the park). by far, longest line I waited in all day. . . .about 35 minutes for Catwoman. (and it didnt' help that line jumping was RAMPANT - a group of 4, turned into a group of 7, then a group of 11. .and staffing did nothing to stop it, despite seeing the teenagers climbing the queue to join their friends in line. but I love these rides, so waited for it, and it was great as usual: and you get REALLY close to the Batman track while in the Catwoman queue (which has no awnings. . I guess to keep the sightlines open.. . glad it wasn't too sunny of a day) actually, you would get pretty close to Mindbender track in the Harley Quinn queue, had that been open: getting dehydrated, but as I said, I love these rides, and it runs a pretty decent cycle. . . so thumbs up on this, even if the park should be ASHAMED to have 4 of the 7 rides here closed, when this section is being promoted all over the park. realizing I really needed some water, I went to the Batman giftshop (which is currently also the entrance to the ride, apparently) to get some water (along the way snapping a better pic of the new Poison Ivy scrambler, that was running a great cycle): and while cooling down, noticed the Mindbender train was sitting on the break run. Since I was sitting drinking my water on the Mindbender Photo Counter (closed up), I was right near the exit. . and when one of the park's "Safety" guys came by to check the area (I guess?). .I asked him would it be ok if I went up the exit ramp towards the station to take some pics of the new trains. so with permission. . here's the new Mindbender trains: by now it was after 2pm, and I *really* needed to eat something. . so I headed back to Macho Nacho (which would have been my choice in the park anyways, even if it wasnt' one of the food venues that were actually open today). . and found a very short line. . off lunch hours now. . and easily a nice place to sit and enjoy my Taco Salad (which had maybe 5 pieces of lettuce in it. .but so much other good stuff. . it was wonderful) didnt' think to take a pic before I ate most of it. . LOL Sadly, no train today. .but at least the photo op had no line: and yeah. .this park is hilly: so having finally eaten something. . do I let the food settle? while Goliath is still kinda a walk on, and I'm right near Monster Mansion? You crazy? sad little one skybucket pole left in the center of the park, over the Monster Mansion roof.. . not sure why they left one. Maybe planning on using it for lights for Holiday in the Park? I'd held it off long enough tho - and had made my way almost completely around the park in a full loop.. . but it was (finally) time for Carousel hill. yes.. I always make myself wait for the enjoyment of the Carousel. .. .to be concluded. . .1 point
-
1 point
-
1 point
-
It's right off the freeway, but if you're coming from downtown SLC, it's still about a 20-30 minute drive, so be aware. I was there over the summer, and didn't notice much down. Cannibal was running all day long, and once you got through the bag check portion of the line (right at the main entrance of the ride), it was only about a 15 minute wait. Line for Spider crawled. I did enjoy eating at the Biergarten, great atmosphere.1 point
-
Last i've heard everything is open but beware, Cannibal likes to randomly break down and be down for hours so get on it right away if its open Sundays are always less busy than Saturdays but Frightmares is going on right now so it'll still be busy Lagoon is right off of the freeway so an uber/lyft is super easy Have fun!1 point
-
Busy weekend & work week, but finally getting back to this to post my Labor Day at SFOG. I got up pretty early, as the park opened (I think, at 10:30) so I wanted to be there by 9:45 at the latest. See, most years I blow off the Monday of Con to hit up Six Flags Over Georgia . . started doing that about 10 years ago. . since there's really not that much going on panel wise, and I end up just hanging out in the Dealer's room and spending money on Mondays. This year in particular, I wasn't keen to hang around the crowds. and I knew that 9 times out of 10, Labor Day itself at SFOG is pretty dead. I had been convinced to download the LYFT app by my friends (who gave me a coupon code to save me some $$) after using Cabs in past years to get there - or going with a friend who drove there and back. Lyft is way cheaper than the cab (which always cost ~$35 each way from the Hyatt to the park), although I can't really say it was more convenient overall - since getting back was so frustrating I needed a decompression shower before going to dinner with friends. But all in all, I enjoyed using Lyft and have even made use of it here in Austin the other night too. anyways. . on to the pics: I'm here. . it's early. .wow, the new colors on Scorcher look GREAT Wait. . what's this? the front gate is now no longer the front gate? Yup. it was all blocked off - like permanently blocked off, and only being used to exit the park. thanks to Covid, the new entrance was on the Left, next to Scorcher/Goliath. . where you're fed thru what looked like it used to be a temperature area.. but now just looks like a deserted barn. it was kinda sad to see all the shuttered ticket booths, with really no way to access them at all now. (someone told me all tickets are handled at this gate on the right these days). granted, it was still ~30 minutes until they open the gates (and an hour+ until rope drop). . but yeah, not much crowd, so expected it to be typical dead. I was ready in my Star Wars Roller-Coaster shirt tho: and we're allowed in: most headed over towards Daredevil Dive area.. I took the right to Twisted Cyclone, hoping it would open up earlier than the park, as it often starts prior to Rope Drop. but nope. . no signs of life over here at all. not even testing. tho Goliath started to: out of curiosity, I peeked into Flash Pass to see they were asking ~$120 today for it. I figured based on the crowd thus far, I wouldn't need it - and I was for the most part correct, a pretty dead day. but wanted the info on cost just in case. people were starting to line up in front of Twisted Cyclone, and even tho I had been in the area prior to open? the MBFs lined up and created a queue before the queue opened. it still hadn't tested at this point yet, and it would be after rope drop when park officially opened before they ran the trains for 1st runs. they opened up the queue and I headed to the back row (where I was behind a father/son duo). they loaded up the 1st train. . . and couldn't get green light. They locked and unlocked. . walked a few people.. . locked and unlocked.. and the ride was down for maintenance to show up (the issue appeared to be car 2 of the Red train). they made all the riders vacate the train, and made the announcement the ride was down (I decided to wait it out). maintenance showed up within 10 minutes. . played around with it, and cycled the trains.. then let folks get in the train again - and SAME issue. they called maintenance back while most everyone in the queue deserted and moved off into the park main. and of course what did Maintenance do when they came back? why blocked off row two of the red train.. cycled, and the ride opened. not sure why they didn't just do that in the 1st place (and Twisted Cyclone was the rare coaster running more than 1 train today). . but oh well.. got my 1st ride of the day in the back row on what turned out to be the first train of the day with riders. the troublemaker: the girl's faces here just crack me up..and that Dad doesn't even notice? Hysterical. the line was still short, so went back and walked onto a middle train ride, before moving past the closed Acrophobia and into the main park. the day started out rough..but quickly got better. Walk on to the Mine Train, walk on to Joker Funhouse Coaster, walk on to Monster Mansion (twice) Halloween theming at the exit of Mine Train. - love the plaque referencing the family entertainment is in front of a "burn at the stake" scene. .LOL ah.. in my happy place: Kissie Kissie! 'tis a flasher! SUCH a brilliant effect. . . don't go in the swamp!!! Hyouuuuu-MANS! the line was so non-existant..I went back around to ride again! seriously. . these are crowd levels ~1 1/2 hours after open. so I figured I'd head over to Superman, if it was running.. and see what the line situation was over there. this really is a gorgeous park in places, in particular the paths around and thru Carousel hill. So i cut thru the DC Superfriends section to get on the paths, and noticed the old sign promoting the Screampunk District from when they added Pandemonium a few years ago. . . um. . not near Pandemonium. LOL. . very Six Flags (it was instead blocking what would have been the entry to the park's old Chute the Chute ride. .which has been sitting decommissioned and rotting for several years now. . .yeah.. just lovely) but the paths really are lovely. . if you don't look over to the right at all. . LOL I spy. . an eyesore: but coming around the path, and across the train tracks (Train sadly down today too), I see Superman is operating - only 1 train - but no line at all outside in the queue. so really a walk on. . directly into the station, where I joined a group of 3 and got on the train as I walked in. day was going MUCH better than it appeared to be at 1st. 2nd train wasn't really NEEDED today, but since Supes is one of the slowest loading coasters in the park, it was a shame to see the 2nd train just parked on the other side of hte station. and yeah, no need for Flash Pass today. Justice League was such a walk on, I mistakenly went in the flash pass queue at first.. but then doubled back for regular queue so I could get some pictures. for all the crap this park gets sometimes (and yeah, the attitude of some of the staff is a bit. . . lackluster, or can be). .they are really giving the rides some TLC. ALL the effects in Justice League Battle for Metropolis were working. . as were ALL the effects in Monster Mansion. I was very impressed and pleased. and the crowd levels were remaining perfect for my day. it was barely noon, I think, and was really having a great time: . . . to be continued.1 point
-
I mean, they have free courtesy cups... I can't complain that much, we just wanted a bottle since we were heading into a queue and knew we'd want to sip it for awhile. I just picked it up without a posted price and laughed when I realized that Harry Potter water was like twice the price of all of the other water bottles in the park for no reason. It's dumb.1 point
-
To be clear my statements were past tense, not current tense. COVID over all has been good for the park I would argue. Even cat woman's whip delay was benificial to the park. I just can't provide more details then that. I would argue that for the first time in decades (not an exaggeration), both corporate and local mgmt are passionate and invested in the parks long term success, not just their own. And I don't measure love by number of coaster given, as I would definitely be disappointed over the next couple of years ;-).1 point
-
I'm almost wondering if dude is trolling at this point. Saying corporate hates our park is an incredibly immature way to look at it. I remember hour long waits for everything, too. We had Screamin' Eagle, Ninja, and Mine train. Now, we have Batman, Mr. Freeze, American Thunder, and Boss to spread the wealth. There are also more operating days in the calendar to spread the crowds, and outdoor/family wants and needs have changed. Six Flags Saint Louis would much rather have my wife and kid coming to the park and spending money, rather than teenagers fighting over turkey legs. They need both, but they would prefer to draw more families with TLC. At my point in life, I don't want to go spend my time at a shithole, and Six Flags Saint Louis has come a long way in our eyes. Why did I just waste my time defending such an immature stance?... Again. Troll.1 point
-
1 point
-
Sooooo no coaster equals corp “hates” our park? lets see… -Xcalibur received a refurbishment when it could have been removed to cut costs -They are currently refurbishing the carousel, which I imagine is not cheap. -Quite a handful of spots in the park got or is getting some much needed updates (Biggest one being Superman). Does Six Flags hate this park? No. If they did, we wouldn’t be receiving new rides and updates almost yearly. Six Flags doesn’t invest in a coaster for this park because there is hardly any local competition to warrant buying one. Sure, Kings Island, Holiday World, Silver Dollar City, and Kentucky Kingdom are 4-6 hours away, but the local GP don’t want to travel that far to ride coasters. They go to Six Flags because it’s close. If anything, Six Flags probably hates La Ronde enough to warrant dumping Green Lantern there1 point
-
^ as someone who also tends to type only in lowercase (unless a proper name is being used) - that's kinda a childish attack here, Mike. (and I have an English minor, so it's just an aesthetic choice) otherwise, your point is dead on about why CF won't give a crap about what SF does. (and again, IR is so short, no way will it *ever* operate with 3 trains. clearly the 3rd train is so there will always be 2 train operations while one is having refurb (lemme tell you, one train ops on IR for two summers in a row SUCKED).1 point
-
More random thoughts here: Me personally dropping weight made me have more fun at the park this year because a. I wasn't being stapled into restraints and b. I could actually be shirtless at Hurricane Harbor! (I don't care about being fit/toned; just happy the pounds are down) Assuming at some point Shipwreck Falls and/or Renegade Rapids get scrapped (seems to be the trend for those types of attractions being removed); what if anything replaces them? My opinion is that the RR plot could be used for an RMC Raptor and the SF plot could be used for a Sky Rocket 2. Yes ladies and gentlemen, I know those two ideas have no chance of ever happening (and I should stop using that DC area crack!)1 point
-
1 point
-
Good on them. I hope this becomes the industry standard.1 point
-
So apparently Rise of the Resistance is going to a normal queue next week and pausing the whole crazy virtual queue. This is most likely in preparation for Lightning Lane and due to less crowds right now.1 point
-
@ice1972 No, I don't support their decision to not offer Flash Pass on the phone for season Flash Pass customers. Yes, they should offer the same system to every paying customer, I'll agree with you there. I don't agree that it has "devalued" what you're paying for. The system operates exactly as it did when you purchased it. Now, if they removed rides from the Flash Pass program, then yes, I'd say you have a "devalued" argument. Mainly, what I don't agree with is the extreme to which you've taken your upset-ness. Your mild inconvenience from them not offering season Flash Pass on the phone app does not give you the right to berate, yell at, or otherwise harass a low-paid, young employee of the park, who has literally no control over the situation whatsoever. Write an e-mail to the GM of the park if it bothers you so much...front-line employees at theme parks don't have any say over how things are done. Was I highly annoyed when CF parks decided to keep their smoking zones to outside the park gates post-COVID? Yes, absolutely. Did I bitch and moan about it to the employees who scan the tickets/passes on entry? No, because they have no ability to change things that are corporate-wide or even park-level decisions. You also realize that this is Six Flags, and the "decision" to not offer what you're looking for is likely as simple as one of their tech guys forgetting to check a box to enable it, right? Again, not someone who works at the park and interacts with guests. Guest Relations might be your only real outlet at the park, since they can take notes that get forwarded on to the park management, but certainly you're a better human being than to "give them an earful." A casual, friendly, "Hey, it would be nice if..." will get you miles further. If the "1972" in your user name refers to your birth year, this is even worse, because a grown-ass adult should not get so bothered by trivial things like this. I hope you never have to face any actual hardship in your life.1 point
