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So RCDB's Facebook alerted me to this new company, who is designing rides. I believe they are German or asssociated with a German company. This sounds good, right? Read what they put on NoLimits Exchange-

 

Hi Guys!

 

First off, thanks for the amazing comments! Loving the enthusiasm so far! I can't believe that, after arriving in Beijing yesterday and being at the IAAPA Asia Expo for a few hours, it's already up on the exchange!

 

To assure you that everything has carefully been taken care of with this collaboration with Golden horse, let me start off by saying that Golden Horse (or Jin Ma rides) has done everything legally, signed every official document and dealt with my lawyers and german business partner. They have the right to display my two designs as stated in the contract. I'm well aware of their reputation, however as of this year Golden Horse is trying to take their way into the European Market and show everyone what they've got!

 

The 16-Inversion coaster will in fact break the world record for most inversions! Also I'm allowed t announce that there have been client's found for this coaster and will perhaps "soon" be coming to a park near (or not so near) you! You can spread the word if you like I guess the Smiler's fame is short-lived!

 

The EyeLoop is a totally different story. Though simple and compact, the EyeLoop is a big thrill and a unique experience. I'll upload the video of it soon, as well as the 16-inversion coaster. Stay tuned!

 

Cheers!

 

Camiel Bilsen

www.coaster-lab.com

 

TL;DR - A new company has gone through the legal process to do work with Jin Ma Rides (GOLDEN HORSE) and is designing coasters, including a 16-inversion coaster, for which clients have been found.

 

Golden horse. AKA Chinese Knockoff Company. I don't know what to make of this... I'm debating whether or not to call BS on this. Their YouTube shows a variety of renderings of their work, including brand-new lap bar trains for the 16-inversion coaster. However, I would have found a better manufacturer than Golden Horse... I guess that was the best they could find.

 

So assuming this is real, do you think that the new designer will win over Golden Horse's manufacturing and produce a smooth ride? Or will Golden Horse mess up an otherwise awesome idea and lead to more death machines?

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Never! Golden Horse is Golden Horse. A knock-off company can never suddenly become Gerstlauer because they work with their employee. I don't think coaster-lab has enough ability, Camiel cannot suddenly turn a bunch of people who only knows how to copy into Alan Schilke. Not even Alan Schilke himself, not even Werner Stengel. Yes, Camiel designs awesome looking trains but building a real one takes years of development and requires a huge amount of mechanical engineering knowledge which I assume he doesn't meet the requirement given that he is only 20 or 21.

 

Golden Horse is Golden Horse, their construction and manufacturing standard will not allow them to build original, compact and high tech rides. The track difference of their SLC's construction reached 5 cm before which I assume not even a 1920s wooden coaster is that inaccurate. I even think their crew don't even know what heartline is, they just copy, copy and copy. When a layout like that is build by those people, we don't even need to imagine how painful it will be. Uncle Anton and Werner Stengel started using heartline on small banked turns and made them perfect, Golden Horse... Well... Is definitely pushing themselves too far.

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Never! Golden Horse is Golden Horse. A knock-off company can never suddenly become Gerstlauer because they work with their employee. I don't think coaster-lab has enough ability, Camiel cannot suddenly turn a bunch of people who only knows how to copy into Alan Schilke. Not even Alan Schilke himself, not even Werner Stengel. Yes, Camiel designs awesome looking trains but building a real one takes years of development and requires a huge amount of mechanical engineering knowledge which I assume he doesn't meet the requirement given that he is only 20 or 21.

 

Golden Horse is Golden Horse, their construction and manufacturing standard will not allow them to build original, compact and high tech rides. The track difference of their SLC's construction reached 5 cm before which I assume not even a 1920s wooden coaster is that inaccurate. I even think their crew don't even know what heartline is, they just copy, copy and copy. When a layout like that is build by those people, we don't even need to imagine how painful it will be. Uncle Anton and Werner Stengel started using heartline on small banked turns and made them perfect, Golden Horse... Well... Is definitely pushing themselves too far.

 

What do you mean "track difference"... like the accuracy? Wow, 2 inches? How do they connect the track if it is so imperfect? Or am I misunderstanding?

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^ You are understanding it right. I think they redo a new track piece that looks and feels painful to connect it. Now their accuracy can be controlled under 1 cm which I still think is way too much but they seem to be proud of.

 

Sorry for being too aggressive about Golden Horse, when talking about Vekoma, I'm joking because they do make smooth and great rides. When talking about Golden Horse, I mean it. They should never make anything! At lest the other knock-off companies know how to change things a bit, even Jiuhua started to do original layouts, even though they are painful, they will get better. Golden Horse only knows how to piss Zamperla off at IAAPA and promote something way out of their league.

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5 cm difference?

I sense a few lawsuits coming from this. May God be with the passengers...

 

 

So this "company" just creates concepts.

The real work is the calculations behind the 3D-renderings, that is the deciding factor of anything built ever. Pretty aesthetics are only the end results of these fined-tuned calculations. No limits is the RCT3 of real coaster design. I can see why a knock-off company would go for something as professional as this. Good luck to CoasterLab, and I pray they don't find themselves in court with GH.

Edited by JonnyRCT3
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^ That's nothing, Shibaolai's first SLC has a ONE METER difference!!!!!

 

Psssh, you jelly, that's it. Shenzhou Coaster is science, Shenzhou Coaster is technology!

 

 

" "Shenzhou" Coaster is one of the world-class hanging seat ride with high-grade precision and advanced technology which features on space traveling. Blahblahblah. This ride is good for both entertainment and education purposes. "

 

 

About the 16-inversion coasters, here it is:

 

10450342_710335339026964_8944339926628134029_n.jpg

 

10339306_10152353675489193_7927375055372298763_o.jpg

Camiel (Coaster-Lab) at the Asian Attraction Expo, with his designs Golden Horse choose to showcase and sell.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3l2NlAmNQ

 

Coaster-Lab said one model is coming to Europe soon, and it will be manufactured in Germany. We'll see how this will turns out!

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I'm just saying that there is a difference between making a concept art and manufacturing the real thing. CoasterLab makes amazing looking coaster concept art but building a real train that takes everything into consideration is even more complicated than making a layout. Camiel is a talented man, but Golden Horse is not a good place for his own development. People complain about Lightning Run's train looking weird(it looks great IMO), if Camiel is working at Ride Centerline, probably not even Il Tempo Extra Gigante will be the best looking coaster train.

 

RCD interviewed Golden Horse about their rides not being original before, their excuse is that their technology hasn't reached the requirements of creating their own coasters.

Edited by gerstlaueringvar
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I'm just saying that there is a difference between making a concept art and manufacturing the real thing. CoasterLab makes amazing looking coaster concept art but building a real train that takes everything into consideration is even more complicated than making a layout. Camiel is a talented man, but Golden Horse is not a good place for his own development.

 

RCD interviewed Golden Horse about their rides not being original before, their excuse is that their technology hasn't reached the requirements of creating their own coasters.

 

 

We as enthusiasts can and should do more to protect and defend the companies who create the roller coasters and rides we love so much, if that means boycotting all these Chinese companies and the people who work for or with them, I think that is a fairly easy thing to do.

 

I won't be riding this persons creations, now or ever.

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I'm just saying that there is a difference between making a concept art and manufacturing the real thing. CoasterLab makes amazing looking coaster concept art but building a real train that takes everything into consideration is even more complicated than making a layout.

This is absolutely true. NoLimits, from my experience, is a program for visualization. I don't believe under any circumstances that you can design and produce a complete roller coaster using NoLimits alone. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in most cases a roller coaster's design is already finalized (or close to it) when a NoLimits visualization is created.

 

Camiel looks to be really good at what he does - it's the sort of thing that I do but with trains and tracks as opposed to environments - but I don't think that he actually does any legitimate roller coaster engineering. I'm willing to be proven wrong but skeptical A.J. is skeptical.

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I'm just saying that there is a difference between making a concept art and manufacturing the real thing. CoasterLab makes amazing looking coaster concept art but building a real train that takes everything into consideration is even more complicated than making a layout. Camiel is a talented man, but Golden Horse is not a good place for his own development.

 

RCD interviewed Golden Horse about their rides not being original before, their excuse is that their technology hasn't reached the requirements of creating their own coasters.

 

 

We as enthusiasts can and should do more to protect and defend the companies who create the roller coasters and rides we love so much, if that means boycotting all these Chinese companies and the people who work for or with them, I think that is a fairly easy thing to do.

 

I won't be riding this persons creations, now or ever.

 

Not all of them. I respect those who created original layouts and designed their own systems. Regardless their past, if they are doing original things now, I will ride the original ones just to show them my respect because they are at least going forward. Golden Horse coasters, on the other hand, are the choices while I am too dirty to even be a credit whore.

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I'm not sure what to make of this. The coasterlab guy is a talented modeler/drafter, but he is certainly not an engineer. It sounds like Golden Horse simply wants to use his models to market their rides, but I can't imagine them trying to actually create one. That 16-inversion ride could actually hurt someone if built to typical golden horse standards.

 

I'll be highly interested to see if this gets off the ground.

 

RCD interviewed Golden Horse about their rides not being original before, their excuse is that their technology hasn't reached the requirements of creating their own coasters.

 

That's unfortunately a common Chinese sentiment. Honestly though, they have everything they need to develop their own rides, they simply lack the creativity and thus take the cheap route of trying to carbon-copy others.

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So Golden Horse is going to build a 16 inversion coaster in Germany?

Difficult choice on if I will go ride it, on the one hand it's Golden Horse and they have a reputation amongst the fans. On the other hand a 16 inversion coaster is something worth a try.

This choice would be a lot easier if it was someone else who would build this.

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^ That's nothing, Shibaolai's first SLC has a ONE METER difference!!!!!

 

But after ten years, Wanda ordered a custom designed SLC from Shibaolai. Which proved how much they had improved since Shenzhou Coaster.

 

How do you know this? But anyways, it seems like Golden Horse would be better off increasing their accuracy than re-manufacturing track a crapton of times. I don't get how they can get away with one meter of difference... even with re-manufacturing. Do they just change the layout to compensate when they screw up a track piece?

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^^^ They don't lack creativity, nobody in the world lack creativity other than B&M's layout designers. They are just lazy and think all their customers are dump that they won't realize that the rides are the same but without the quality.

 

^This is from Shijinghan park's marketing Vice President. The park CEO suffered from serious back injury after riding Shenzhou coaster.

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I'm just saying that there is a difference between making a concept art and manufacturing the real thing. I don't believe under any circumstances that you can design and produce a complete roller coaster using NoLimits alone. I don't think that he actually does any legitimate roller coaster engineering.

 

That 16-inversion ride could actually hurt someone if built to typical golden horse standards.

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Original design or not, supporting any company which sees fit to rip off the hard work and years of effort from real manufacturers is wrong and I will be boycotting this "designer" and "his" creations.

Please don't. Camiel definitely has a bright future but he is doing it wrong. When I talked with Golden horse at IAAPA, they said that an experienced German engineer is working with them on the layout design, track calculation, control system and the train design. Is there anyone in the world who can actually step into these four fields together? I think Golden Horse did not take me seriously and exaggerated things trying to make those two CoasterLab coasters more "convincing".

 

Poor Camiel, I feel that Golden Horse is using his name to promote things far more than what they agreed in the contract.

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^^^ They don't lack creativity, nobody in the world lack creativity other than B&M's layout designers. They are just lazy and think all their customers are dump that they won't realize that the rides are the same but without the quality.

 

^This is from Shijinghan park's marketing Vice President. The park CEO suffered from serious back injury after riding Shenzhou coaster.

 

Forceless does not mean non-creative. I mean, how is something like GateKeeper not creative?

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Forceless does not mean non-creative. I mean, how is something like GateKeeper not creative?

 

Nowadays, if it doesn't make you grey-out or eject you from your seat, a coaster is considered bland. Obviously, money talks louder as parks (who know more about the industry) continue to spend big bucks on beemers. I find everyone's opinion about the company irrelevant, as they still produce multiple coasters on a yearly basis. Supply & demand > enthusiast's opinion

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Camiel has a TPR account, and it shows he was lurking earlier today...maybe he's reading up on what we're all thinking about this.

 

If you're lurking this thread, what was it about Golden Horse that got you into a contract with them? Having had the (quite unfortunate) opportunity of experiencing some of their work in China a few years back and knowing their work currently doesn't deliver good rides, are you thinking that your collaborative input is the missing element that will get this company's act together? I'm not asking out of condemnation, I'm genuinely curious about what you're getting into with this.

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Hi everyone!

 

Thank you for all the comments. I’m excited to hear all of your opinions about this. I hope I can take a few minutes of your time to explain this project and myself.

 

To assure you that everything has carefully been taken care of with this collaboration with Golden horse, let me start off by saying that Golden Horse (or Jin Ma rides) has done everything legally, signed every official document and dealt with my lawyers and German business partner. They have the right to display my two designs as stated in the contract.

 

I'm well aware of their reputation and I do not agree with Golden Horse’s way of working at all. I had to really think twice about whether I wanted to design those two rides for them or not and they know that.

They told me that they want to take their business to Europe and, instead of copying other rides, want to come up with original designs of their own (I obviously can’t confirm if they were telling the truth). However, they informed me that they don’t have creative designers who are able to produce new rides for them, which is why they hired Coaster-Lab. That’s exactly what coaster-lab is for and it’s why I started this company in the first place.

 

They wanted me to design a coaster with 16 inversions that would fit inside a 157ft x 341ft space, and have the track be no longer than 3280ft (which is shorter than the Smiler). It also needed to be faster and higher than the Smiler… Therefore I had no room and track left to make airtime hills or anything that was not an inversion.

The 16-inversion coaster will be calculated in Germany and constructed by Golden Horse.

 

The second coaster they wanted, had to fit inside a very tight space. It had to have an Impulse coaster-type footprint. I had already designed a ride that would fit inside that footprint back in 2011, so I showed it to them and they were very enthusiastic about it.

 

This project with Golden Horse wasn’t my first. I have worked with Gerstlauer, Maurer Söhne and the Fungroup, who’ve contacted me the same way Golden Horse did. I was never an employee at any of these companies because I worked as Coaster-Lab (or as a freelancer if you will).

 

For me it’s kind of unfortunate that the first thing most of you see and read about my company is about this project I did for Golden Horse. I can’t show the other work I have done with the other companies because they’re either confidential, or still in production. So this is the first project that I can publicly talk about.

 

A few days ago I came across something so shocking to me, that I almost fell off my chair. Before I will explain what it was, there is something you need to know about me, because I feel like I have to clear the air a little.

I’ve dreamed of becoming a rollercoaster designer ever since I can remember and have been working towards this goal all my life. It’s still my greatest passion and hobby! For the past 5 years I’ve been attending every IAAPA and EAS show to introduce myself to the industry and meet the people involved.

So a few days ago, when I was reading some of the comments about this project, I found out that one person saw coaster-lab as a big fraud and considered everything I do a crime. This motivated me to discuss my intentions with you.

 

So to assure you all about my intentions, I would never betray anyone or steal anyone’s work in this industry. I would honestly never think of, or do anything to jeopardize my entire career and future, especially since everyone at IAAPA has always been super kind and supportive of me. (They even featured my company in the FunWorld magazine and invited me to be a speaker on the next Young professionals reception in Amsterdam this September). My entire portfolio is online and can be viewed on my website or on Facebook. If anyone else feels like one of my concepts is an exact copy of an existing ride please do tell me. I’m not now, nor will I ever be, a knock-off company, especially since I know most people at S&S, Premier Rides, Vekoma, Intamin, B&M, Gerstlauer, Maurer Söhne etc.

 

Lastly, I would like to tell you that there are a few exciting projects I’m working on at the moment, including one with Alan Schilke. I can’t wait to tell you about this project if everything goes according to plan.

 

I want to thank you for taking the time to read this and I would be glad if you gave me a chance. I hope I didn’t bore you to death with my story

 

Hopefully one day we’ll be riding one of my own designs and we can all have a beer and some good ERT!

 

Cheers!

 

Camiel

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