Batman The Ride (Black Outs On BOTH Loops)(Legs Hurt A LOT)

[sixflagsgadvguy1000]

I visited Six Flags Great Adventure in March and rode Batman The Ride. I experienced dimmed vision and a near gray outs (black outs) on BOTH of the the loops. Also, during the turns my feet felt heavy at times and at times felt sort of numb and kind of hurt. When the ride was over, I asked the people next to me if the had experienced the same thing I had and they said no. Then I asked a lot more people and they said no. I have never grayed out or blacked out during BOTH of the loops before, so this was a first for me, and roller coaster banked turns never made my legs feel like this, just on this ride.

 

I have heard that the Batman The Ride collection by B&M at the various Six Flags Theme Parks are among the more intense of B&M's inverted coasters to the high possitive G Forces and tightness of turns. I have never experienced anything like this before. I have ridden Alpengeist at Busch Gardens Williamsburg Virginia and I have ridden Great Bear at Hershey Park. Both Alpengeist and Great Bear were extremely enjoyable and a lot of fun, and I did not experience anything like the intensity on Batman. I went on Batman thinking it would be awesome. I had heard that it was intense, but I did not expect graying out on the loops and losing conciousness or the weird feeling in my feet on the turns. I am not sure if I want to ride Batman again.

 

On the other hand, Alpengeist and Great bear are probably if not deffinately some of the best and most amazing coasters I have ever ridden. I LOVE THOSE COASTERS!!!!!!!!. Alpengeist and Great Bear are out of this world and amazing. I LOVE THOSE COASTERS, THEY ARE SO AWESOME!!!!

 

I do not want the experience I had on Batman to stop me from riding inverted coasters, because I am sure that there are a lot of many B&M inverted coasters that are much less intense regarding possitive G Force and are a lot more enjoyable like Alpengeist and Great Bear. I would assume that coasters such as Dueling Dragons (Islands of Adventure), Montu (Busch Gardens Tampa Florida), Phaethon (Gyeongju World), Patriot (World's Of Fun Park), Silver Bullet (Knott's Berry Famr Park), Talon (Dorney Park), Raptor (Cedar Point), or Katun (Mirabilandia Theme Park Italy), are much less intense and do not have anywhere near the amount of possitive G Forces as on Batman on the ride. I would assume that Dueling Dragons (Islands of Adventure), Montu (Busch Gardens Tampa Florida), Phaethon (Gyeongju World), Patriot (World's Of Fun Park), Silver Bullet (Knott's Berry Famr Park), Talon (Dorney Park), Raptor (Cedar Point), or Katun (Mirabilandia Theme Park Italy) are much less intense B&M inverted coasters due to much taller and longer loops and a more wide spread out coaster ride track layout and ride course to follow. I don't think they have as many possitive G Forces either, someone tell me if I', right.

 

The rides that would worry me a bit and might concern me are Flight Deck (Great America), Nemesis Inverno (Thorpe Park), All Of The Batmans (Six Flags Theme Parks), Diavalo (Himeiji), Vampire (La Ronde), Goliath (Six Flags Fiesta Texas), Nemesis (Alton Towers), and Black Mamba (Phantasialnd Theme Park Germany).

 

These coastes such as Flight Deck (Great America), Nemesis Inverno (Thorpe Park), All Of The Batmans (Six Flags Theme Parks), Diavalo (Himeiji), Vampire (La Ronde), Goliath (Six Flags Fiesta Texas), Nemesis (Alton Towers), and Black Mamba (Phantasialnd Theme Park Germany) all worry me due to there small size and compact and smaller inversions. People due say that there are awesome, but I don't know how intense the might be, but I could be wrong. They look awesome, but they just may not be for me, but don't get me wrong, these smaller inverters due look awesome and amazing too.

 

Anyways, please give me information on what experienced on Bataman, and if it is normal, because this issue now makes me afraid to ride smaller and more compact B&M inverting models and Intimidator 305 due to graying out. Please just give me you're opinions and ideas of my problem.

 

SORRY THAT THIS IS SO LONG, PLEASE UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS

Edited June 5, 2010 by sixflagsgadvguy1000

[FeelTheFORCE]

It's common occurrence. The blood rushes away from your head when you experience positive Gs, causing you to lose vision. I have to support my one foot with the other foot, sort of like crossing my ankles, on Raptor's ending helix because they would hurt a bit also if I didn't.

 

It doesn't happen to me on many coasters, just a select few. To name a couple, Millennium in the back and Goliath (SFMM).

Edited June 5, 2010 by FeelTheFORCE

[coasterdude5]

I have a love/hate relationship with the coaster. The ride (I've been on SFGAm's, SFStl's, and SFoG's) fascinates me because of its compact layout and speed, but I can usually only ride it once per visit to a park. My head can't take it. I've heard of several people having similar experiences to yours. I'm sure I've greyed out, but I wouldn't know because my eyes usually close on their own! Just listen to what your body's telling you. If you don't like how you feel after riding it, then don't ride it again! If you feel like you can handle it again, then do so in moderation. I'd suggest trying out some other inverts to see how you react to those.

 

Hope I was a little helpful!

[RollingRunner]

Yes, I have experienced that 'weird feeling' in my legs on Batman recently. It's one of the reasons why I really don't like riding Batman anymore, even though I loved it a few years ago. It may be caused by being a bit tall, but I could be wrong.

 

Even though I love other inverts like Alpengeist and Great Bear, Batman has a really intense design and layout for it's size.

[B-RadG]

Yes, Batman The Ride clones are very intense due to the speed the compact elements are taken out. Graying/blackout out is normal and it's not killing you or anything like that.

 

What happens is that when positive Gs are applied (by changing the degree you're traveling at) you're forced into your seat and blood is forced downwards in your body, causing you to feel heavy (if you weigh 100 pounds, 4 Gs make you feel like you weigh 400 pounds). When the blood is forced away from your brain, you start to lose your vision and when sustained high enough (over 7-9 Gs) for long enough, you can suffer brain damage or die. Lateral forces (applied to your side during turns) and Linear forces (applied during acceleration) cannot harm you but can cause injury/discomfort. No coaster, however, would have the capability to kill you from Gs unless it were very poorly designed. Bolliger & Mabillard is known for its immaculate safety record, returning every single rider alive for 20 years.

 

Blacking out can happen for multiple reasons, it can happen from lack of nourishment (food/water), lack of sleep, small body frame, prolonged period of high Gs applied to the body, or just a low G tolerance in general.

 

I've ridden Alpengeist, Talon, Great Bear, and Montu, and I've yet to black out on anything except for Intimidator 305. Talon is the most intense of them. However, most newer B&Ms are designed to not be as forceful as the older B&Ms (Batman clones, Kumba, Montu, Alpengiest). For some reason, Inverted coasters always give a greater sensation of Gs. The layout doesn't necessarily dictate the forces that will be applied, it's the sharpness of the change in angle and the size of the elements. Schwarzkopf is notorious for small rides with very high Gs.

 

Hope that answered your concerns.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Something you can try is a technique utilized by fighter pilots. The moment you start to experience a grey out, or even some positive Gs, tighten your stomach muscles as tight as you can comfortably get them. It works great for me...both stops my grey outs and returns my sight almost instantaneously.

[sixflagsgadvguy1000]

Yes, Batman The Ride clones are very intense due to the speed the compact elements are taken out. Graying/blackout out is normal and it's not killing you or anything like that.

 

What happens is that when positive Gs are applied (by changing the degree you're traveling at) you're forced into your seat and blood is forced downwards in your body, causing you to feel heavy (if you weigh 100 pounds, 4 Gs make you feel like you weigh 400 pounds). When the blood is forced away from your brain, you start to lose your vision and when sustained high enough (over 7-9 Gs) for long enough, you can suffer brain damage or die. Lateral forces (applied to your side during turns) and Linear forces (applied during acceleration) cannot harm you but can cause injury/discomfort. No coaster, however, would have the capability to kill you from Gs unless it were very poorly designed. Bolliger & Mabillard is known for its immaculate safety record, returning every single rider alive for 20 years.

 

Blacking out can happen for multiple reasons, it can happen from lack of nourishment (food/water), lack of sleep, small body frame, prolonged period of high Gs applied to the body, or just a low G tolerance in general.

 

I've ridden Alpengeist, Talon, Great Bear, and Montu, and I've yet to black out on anything except for Intimidator 305. Talon is the most intense of them. However, most newer B&Ms are designed to not be as forceful as the older B&Ms (Batman clones, Kumba, Montu, Alpengiest). For some reason, Inverted coasters always give a greater sensation of Gs. The layout doesn't necessarily dictate the forces that will be applied, it's the sharpness of the change in angle and the size of the elements. Schwarzkopf is notorious for small rides with very high Gs.

 

Hope that answered your concerns.

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, a lot of it was answered it those questions. How do you know that B&M is known for it's immaculate safety record? So another words, not to jynx anything but B&M is one of the more on the safer side of coaster manufacturers? Not to jynx it, not to jynx it. I'm not trying to jynx it. lol.

 

I actually felt that weird feeling in my legs on the first turn on Great Bear, right after being released from the lift hill, that very first helix turn before the bigges descent on Great Bear. Is that normal all?

 

Should what I experienced on Batman stop me from riding the other B&M inverted coasters, because I loved Alpengeist and Great Bear, and there are many that I would love to ride that don't look that intense at all, but I could be wrong. They may be less intense and stuff, and much easier to handle and what not stuff. For example, Montu and Katun look amazing!! I have seen many phtotos and videos of them and they look amazing and the loops and inversions are much larger, not small like the Batman clones and other smaller models. Montu and Katun look amazing, and the look like they have larger loops and larger inversion, easier fast paced turns, and easier banked turns. I would assume that those are less intense. Alpengeist was perfect, nothing really bothered me about it at all. What do you mean, Talon is bit intense. Should my experience stop me from riding these types of coasters??

[sixflagsgadvguy1000]

Something you can try is a technique utilized by fighter pilots. The moment you start to experience a grey out, or even some positive Gs, tighten your stomach muscles as tight as you can comfortably get them. It works great for me...both stops my grey outs and returns my sight almost instantaneously.

 

 

I will work on that.

 

Thanks dude for the advice

 

Should I try Batman again??

 

Can I attempt it one more time??

[Dietcokevan]

Yay! Now I know I am not alone on this!

 

I get the ankle thingy almost every time I ride Batman. It sucks walking around with that feeling, but I love that it is so intense that it can do that. Batman is a really an awesome coaster, and I'd say ride it again!

 

Sucks that B&M hasn't made a ride recently that can match the intensity of Batman. (At least I think, haven't been on many new B&Ms)

[rydrmr9]

I got the same greyout experience on only one coaster and that was tennessee tornado at dollywood. It was during the second and third loops, but i still rode it three times again afterward. lol Batman though doesn't phase me.

 

~Ryan

[sixflagsgadvguy1000]

Yay! Now I know I am not alone on this!

 

I get the ankle thingy almost every time I ride Batman. It sucks walking around with that feeling, but I love that it is so intense that it can do that. Batman is a really an awesome coaster, and I'd say ride it again!

 

Sucks that B&M hasn't made a ride recently that can match the intensity of Batman. (At least I think, haven't been on many new B&Ms)

 

Theres the Black Mamba at Phantasialand Park. I heard that it is intense, not sure how much, but intense, but not sure how much.

[Retro_Gaga]

I used to experience the same thing you did, after riding B:TR multiple times, my body got used to it. I no longer grey out, but i always get the tingling in my feet when whipping around the final turn into the breaks.

 

It's not harmful to you and it's something that happens alot. Should it stop you from riding B&M inverst, absolutely not. You'll be fine on them, they're great fun too.

[Fallen Heretic]

I have never had a greying out or blacking out experience. I have had the situation where my face starts to feel a little cold and my legs feel a little heavy after repeated rides, but thats as close as I have gotten. You expect that with repeated +ve G and as has been said, you can almost completely alleviate it by constricting your lower stomach and with more sustained G, tensing your legs as well. This will get tiring after a while though, but I bet its great for your abs.

 

Im not sure, even with intense rides such as batman, that anyone should be greying or blacking out. Despite what people say, it really isnt normal. These rides aren't designed to be intense enough to black out a regular healthy person. If you find it happening alot, you may want to get your blood pressure checked just in case its a little low. If it is, think twice about riding. Most rides do warn about blood pressure on their warning/precaution signs. Lots of people have been saying i305 has greyed or blacked them out, but Ive never ridden that.

 

It cant be healthy to go draining blood out of your brain and eyes till you cant see.

 

Just my two cents.

[FeelTheFORCE]

It cant be healthy to go draining blood out of your brain and eyes till you cant see.

 

It happens to fighter pilots for longer periods of time and at a much greater intensity...and they experience those Gs regularly! Yes they wear pressure suits and helmets, but they still experience much greater positive Gs than most of us will in our lifetimes.

[Fallen Heretic]

It happens to fighter pilots for longer periods of time and at a much greater intensity...and they experience those Gs regularly! Yes they wear pressure suits and helmets, but they still experience much greater positive Gs than most of us will in our lifetimes.

 

I know where your trying to come from, but your not comparing like with like. Some of you may like to imagine your highly exciting and sexy fighter pilots, but in general, coaster enthusiasts are not.

 

They experience high G, but do not black out all that often. They are trained not to (as in recognize the limits and not go beyond it). What good is a blacked out pilot in a dogfight or evasive maneuvering? If he blacks out, he probably dies. And like you said, they have pressure suits. They also have superior physical fitness and training, all things the average coaster rider does not have.

 

If your average Joe blacks out on a ride after a few seconds of mid-level G (which most healthy people should be able to take), that could indicate a underlying issue he should make himself (or herself) aware of. And if there is an issue, pushing it to unconsciousness is probably a bad idea. Im not saying thats definitely whats up with these people, but its smarter to get it checked than not. I figure its only sensible.

[Hydraglow]

I felt the exact same things (blurred vision on loops and tingling legs on turns) when I went on Batman: The Ride at SFMM. I was really surprised that Batman topped Goliath in the Positive G department. The first loop made my vision fizzle out, and the helix and turns sorta hurt my legs. It was a lot more intense then I expected it to be. (I'm not too surprised now either, it is an incredibly compact layout especially when seen in person).

 

In fact, I would say that Batman is the most intense (positive G speaking) coaster I have ever been on. Previous being Colossus (Schwarzkopf) at Lagoon.

[ScottBrown]

I have had the same problem with Flight Deck at CGA in the turn after the vertical loop and clenching your stomach does help however I have also noticed that other things can make you more prone to grey outs such as having eaten or being tired

[james.sylvester]

Out of all the rides I have ridden I found Nemesis gave me a tingley sensation I my legs on the downward helix part. When I saw the ride I was quite surprised with how tight the turn was and since I sat in the back I got the full effect of the turn . I've been on nemesis inferno, montu, dueling dragons, great bear and black mamba. The only one that was close to nemesis was Black mamba.

Yet to ride batman though, so that might be a different story

Hopefully you can see how tight the turn is.

[NYJin2010tm]

Wow, I never pictured Batman the ride being one of the more intense coasters that could do that. Twice this year I've ridden it 5+ times in a row w/o getting up. I'm no youngin' either being 37 but eventually I was feeling it just a little bit. But nothing close to what is being described here.

[FeelTheFORCE]

It happens to fighter pilots for longer periods of time and at a much greater intensity...and they experience those Gs regularly! Yes they wear pressure suits and helmets, but they still experience much greater positive Gs than most of us will in our lifetimes.

 

I know where your trying to come from, but your not comparing like with like. Some of you may like to imagine your highly exciting and sexy fighter pilots, but in general, coaster enthusiasts are not.

 

They experience high G, but do not black out all that often. They are trained not to (as in recognize the limits and not go beyond it). What good is a blacked out pilot in a dogfight or evasive maneuvering? If he blacks out, he probably dies. And like you said, they have pressure suits. They also have superior physical fitness and training, all things the average coaster rider does not have.

 

If your average Joe blacks out on a ride after a few seconds of mid-level G (which most healthy people should be able to take), that could indicate a underlying issue he should make himself (or herself) aware of. And if there is an issue, pushing it to unconsciousness is probably a bad idea. Im not saying thats definitely whats up with these people, but its smarter to get it checked than not. I figure its only sensible.

 

G forces are G forces. They still have "blood being drained from their head" regularly, for a lack of a better way of putting it, no matter how trained, physically fit, pressurized, etc. they are. Just because they don't black/grey out doesn't mean it isn't happening. They just have a higher tolerance from constantly experiencing it.

 

Most likely nothing is wrong when it happens on a coaster, other than the fact the rider is maybe a little dehydrated. With all the high prices at parks, and most people not knowing you can just go up to a food stand and ask for water, it's not uncommon for someone to become a little dehydrated by day's end.

 

When the average person sleeps, the circulation in their arm(s) gets cut off all the time. Is that a reason for you to get your arms checked out regularly? No.

[Fallen Heretic]

^ I think you have missed my point somewhat.

 

Remember like for like.

A pilot blacking out is not the same as a pilot staying conscious. Blackout = brain starved of blood, not blackout = brain not starved of blood. Its not the same situation. At all. One is OK, the other isnt.

I really don't see why we are talking about fighter pilots, its really not the same as riding a coaster. the goalposts and context are way different.

 

And whats this stuff about the arm? Whats that have to do with any of this? Of course I don't think that a dead arm is the same as blacking out due to a lack of oxygen in the brain. You would have to be a serious twit to think it was. Like I said, compare like for like.

 

Yes, it may be nothing, but I still think its better to err on the side of caution and get blood pressure checked. Just in case.

 

I hope if you continue this debate, you put proper effort into it, rather than just using 'internet arguing'.

[FeelTheFORCE]

We are talking about fighter pilots because G forces are G forces, no matter where you experience them. 2 Gs is 2 Gs if you're on Batman: The Ride, or riding in an F22 Raptor. That and LOT of roller coaster elements are modeled after fighter jet maneuvers, so it's an easy comparison. Max Immelmann immediately comes to mind.

 

I mentioned the arm because you said, "It cant be healthy to go draining blood out of your brain and eyes till you cant see." I "drain blood" out of my arm practically every single night, and it seems to be just fine, and not need constant checking from a physician.

 

Blacking out and returning to the station unconscious is DEFINTELY something to be concerned about, and should probably warrant a trip to the hospital, or at least a while in the park's first aid station, but that's not what OP's original concern was about. Just simply graying out (or "nearly graying out," as the OP described it), and getting a slight tingle feeling in your feet for a split second on Inverts is really nothing to be worried about. Maybe for a heart patient or a pregnant woman it's something to worry about (hence the warnings posted outside of every ride entrance), and I know this very well because I have to watch what my dad rides because he had bypass surgery, but not for your average person with no medical conditions. Would the state approve of and sign off on these rides if there were major long term effects from these G forces, even to the average person with no problems? I highly doubt it.

 

I'll end on that note.

[fatdaddy]

Bottom line is that G's hit people differently, not everyone can be a fighter pilot or astronaut, thats why they run all those centrifuge tests on candidates, basically to see if you have a tolerance for high G forces. Honestly if you think it's out of the ordinary go see the doctor. The other thing is that if its a one time occurence, maybe dehydration or even mild sun stroke. I know there have been times where i went on rides and came off all loopy and pretty much just needed get hydrated and eat something. Of course, after five rides on Flight Deck, i just had to quit.

[jamesdillaman]

Most likely you were slightly dehydrated or already physically exhausted. I experienced something similar at B:TR at SFMM after being up all night for the Tatsu campout. I just needed a break. Just watch yourself when you're at a park and you're all "gotta go to the next ride" and you forget to take care of your body's basic needs of food, water, and rest.

[andyuk200523]

I've only had grey out experiences whilst being dehydrated and tired. Most notably on The Bullet (Schwarzkopfs infamous Wiener Looping, serious G's on that!)

 

However out of your list of coasters I would certainly not class Dueling Dragons (Fire Dragon) as a "gentle" ride, I remember riding it in 1999 during its soft opening, and the immelman/helix really caught me off guard and was quite intense.

 

Just remember like lots of other people have stated, always make sure you drink plenty when at a park (especially in the heat of the day) You should be ok after that.