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The Cruise Ship and Cruise Line Discussion Thread!

P. 131: Disney Wish "Grand Hall" details teased!

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^ I'm not sure of what methods will be used to temporarily patch the hole, but afterward, I imagine a fleet of tugs will stabilize, and then pull it into port?

Yeah, I will be VERY curious to see what they do with it. Clearly, it's not sunk enough to have destroyed everything...and that was a $600 million ship just 6 years ago, so I cannot image that they would just scrap it, and would salvage as much as they possible can. And let's be honest here, this is "Carnival" we are talking about. They aren't going to throw something like that away!

 

I think following the post-accident details should prove to be fascinating!

Edited by robbalvey
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My parents are currently on a Princess Cruise. (Princess is also owned by Carnival) They asked one of the ships officers about the Costa incident and were told that no one was allowed to say anything within the company about it.

 

Not to change the subject, but Elissa how do your parents like Princess? We might have an opportunity to sail out of San Juan this year and the options are Carnival, Princess and Celebrity. For some reason the Celebrity ship is priced at lot higher for the particular dates we need, so I am learning towards Princess. Thanks for any insight!

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My guess is they will probably salvage it and transfer the ship to another one of their lines. I don't think there is any way they will completely scrap it, but with so many other lines, I don't see them keeping the same name given all of the bad press and the fatalities.

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I find it interesting that the ship keeled over opposite the hole. I I would have thought it would have been the other way.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster

 

 

 

On 15 January La Repubblica reported that the captain did not mention any mechanical problems but had stated that they were 300 metres (330 yd) from the rocks (i.e., about the length of the vessel) and that they hit a rock that was not marked on nautical charts. This reef was about 800 metres (870 yd) south of the entrance to the harbour of Giglio. The vessel continued for approximately another 1,000 metres (1,100 yd) until just north of the harbour entrance. The vessel then turned in an attempt to get close to the harbour. This turn shifted the centre of gravity to the starboard side of the ship and it listed over to that side initially by about 20°, finally coming to rest at an angle of heel of about 80°. According to the local coast guard, the ship has a 50-metre (160 ft) gash on her port side,] with a large rock embedded in the ship's hull.

 

Here you go.

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Just found this article. Nothings confirmed but some "industry experts" think the ship will not be recoverable.

 

LINK

Industry experts estimate

damage: hull and machinery could only be insured

for 500 million dollars

Five hundred million dollars, according to a broker Genoa, is probably the insurance value of the Costa Concordia, Costa Cruises' ship wrecked island of Giglio. The insurer is the U.S. group Aon, the world leader in the field of risk management and insurance intermediaries and reinsurance. But the $ 500 million relate only to the coverage of the vessel hull and machinery.

 

For the shipowner's liability insurance coverage, including compensation to passengers and crew, damage to the environment, and removal of the wreck, spoke the English club Protection & Indemnity Club, the world of shipping commonly referred to as P & I.

 

In the case of the Costa Concordia will speak the Standard. The ship, according to industry experts, is completely unrecoverable. Costa Cruises will then perform the removal of the wreck. To remove the fuel was hired Dutch Smit International Group. Smit group, which in Italy is represented by the Genoese company Cambiaso Risso Service is at the top in the world, including with regard to transport, ships in distress could be hired for the removal of the wreck.

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^Suprising... LOL.

 

Ha ha. Anyways,

 

Was searching prices on Costa's website and the prices were crazy low. Heres an example,

 

starting from $2,289.00

now $799.00 save 65 %

I believe that was an itinerary that included leaving Rome and a stop at Savona.

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Can't say this would deter me from going on a cruise, cause I don't think I would ever go on one in the first place. I've always thought of "vacation" as time spent away from people- not time spent confined to close quarters with people. I'll get a membership to a gym if I want to deal with the BO and noise of dozens of strangers.

Edited by Ed Farmer
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Can't say this would deter me from going on a cruise, cause I don't think I would ever go on one in the first place. I've always thought of "vacation" as time spent away from people- not time spent confined to close quarters with people.

 

But some people are trying to avoid very specific people: Their employers. I know a guy that only vacations on cruise ships because he got sick of work calling him on his vacations. At $8/minute to call a ship, your employer has to REALLY want to get ahold of you.

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Can't say this would deter me from going on a cruise, cause I don't think I would ever go on one in the first place. I've always thought of "vacation" as time spent away from people- not time spent confined to close quarters with people. I'll get a membership to a gym if I want to deal with the BO of dozens of strangers.

 

Actually, a cruise is one of the most peaceful vacations (depending on ship and line.) You can tell your truthful when saying you've never been on one! Here are some reasons people find it very "relaxing."

 

-Your in the middle of the ocean and if you find the right place such as your balcony on your cabin, or a quiet adult-only area you can enjoy an amazing view and even read a book in peace if you want.

-Unless your willing to pay a fortune, you don't really have access to your phone or computer which gives a real sense of "getting away from it all."

-A lot of ships have large open spaces such as the dining rooms, atrium, theatre, etc...

-As long as you pick a good line (cough cough rccl) you won't be smelling BO... From the small amount of ships Ive been on, I have NEVER had this problem!

 

I wouldn't not consider a cruise if you haven't even been on one to experience it. At least try Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, or even Princess before you totally "diss" a cruise vacation!

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Can't say this would deter me from going on a cruise, cause I don't think I would ever go on one in the first place. I've always thought of "vacation" as time spent away from people- not time spent confined to close quarters with people.

 

But some people are trying to avoid very specific people: Their employers. I know a guy that only vacations on cruise ships because he got sick of work calling him on his vacations. At $8/minute to call a ship, your employer has to REALLY want to get ahold of you.

 

Nothing a silence button or airplane mode can't cure.

 

^I suppose I ought to try it before I rail on it, you're correct.

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Have to agree with cruises being peaceful. Just got off the Liberty of the Seas last week, and it's the most peaceful vacation i ever had. This with a full ship of about 4000 people. It never ever felt crowded. Never saw lines anywhere. Didn't have to check on emails or voicemails. No need to plan where to stay or what to eat. Loved the experience and now i am hooked. My next vacation will also be a cruise one.

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Answering a couple of things here...

 

Shawn - My parents like Princess a lot, but it skews a LOT older. You will be some of the youngest people on the ship, and most activities are done before 10pm. The ships are nice, but don't have as much as Celebrity or Royal Caribbean or even Carnival. Celebrity is VERY nice, and I can understand why it's pricing higher. Be aware and do your research before booking a San Juan cruise. Not going to type cast an entire group of people, but well, just look up San Juan cruises and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

Giga - Sorry you don't like it, but they are the parent company! Deal with it!

 

Swimmin - That's really not related to the accident at all. A lot of time the cruise lines post insane fares and then say how they're discounting them so much. That's pretty much what their site and prices always look like. I've been checking our current cruises and none have gone down in price.

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I've only been on three cruises, but I love cruising! It's really a great 'choose your own adventure' style vacation. You can have a completely relaxing vacation, or a jam packed full of excitement one, or a little of both! Some people just lounge around, read books, and have the most peaceful vacation ever. Others go to all the activities, do a ton of shore excursions, and stay up late partying and drinking. The cruise gives you those options. The best part is, you get to pick what you want, and you don't feel guilty! When I go to WDW, I am usually at the parks from open to close, because that's what I paid for. I never leave to hang out at the pool or just relax because I paid for a certain amount of hours of the park being open. On a cruise, you paid for everything, 24 hours a day, so no matter what you do your not 'wasting' any of your money! I've also never felt crowded on the ship. There were always places you could go to relax and get away from everything. Even on the Disney cruise, with a crap load of kids, you could still easily escape from it all.

 

I don't understand why so many people are trying to defer blame or whatnot from Carnival. Of course it all falls on the parent company. They own, run, train, organize, design, inspect, and hire, all their subsidiaries! How can they not be included in any discussions? I mean look at the Walt Disney Company, a corporation. The Walt Disney World company is a subsidiary of the parent company, but when something happens at the parks, it absolutely falls entirely on The Walt Disney Company. No one would ever say, oh, just blame The Walt Disney World company, not The Disney Company. Just because Costa Cruises doesn't have Carnival in their name doesn't make it any different than Walt Disney World and the Walt Disney Company.

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So, in addition to being a theme park nerd, I am a cruise nerd (maybe even more so than parks! Oh noes!). As such, I have been following this story quite closely on Cruise Critic and other sites from the moment it happened and based off all I have read, it seems this is the likely story as of this moment:

 

- There is a video showing this very ship, Costa Concordia doing a near-miss 'drive-by' of this very island back in August of 2010. The video can be found at this link: video.corriere.it/nave-concordia-al-giglio-/9dfa5ea6-3e9b-11e1-8b52-5f77182bc574. Apparently, some Costa ships veer off course to do this to salute a former Costa commodore who lives here.

 

In my opinion and based off all that I have read, I believe the ship was doing exactly that and clipped some rocks (charted or not). The vessel, according to her track was doing almost 17 knots at the time, so if she clipped rocks, it would have drug them this far at that speed. At first, they didn't realize the severity of the issue, they just knew they had one. The captain did not code in an SOS and did not initiate an evacuation because he would be made a fool of if he did this and it proved to be nothing... so, they told passengers they were having some electrical problems.

 

Once the vessel began to list and it became apparent she was taking on water, the captain did a 180 degree turn (from a pretty high rate of speed) toward the harbor, causing the water already in the ship to shift from port to starboard, causing the vessel to list on the side she was not struck on. Evidence of this is the vertical stabilizers are deployed as seen in the following image. The stabilizers would have deployed automatically to stabilize the vessel in such a dramatic turn:

 

Ships having such a low center of gravity, coupled with the fact it was in such shallow water anyway caused the ship to roll onto the side without the gash.

 

Now, I won't get into the captain and what he did or did not do. But as far as salvage efforts, it has been reported that Carnival Corporation has hired Titan Salvage, one the world's largest salvors. Early reports from them seem to indicate the ship is in better shape than she looks and can be re-floated, however, this may take a month or longer. At that time, an analysis will be done to see if it's worth rebuilding her or not. The vessel is just 50 miles or so from the shipyard where she was originally built, so if they decide to rebuild her (which I think they will, she's only 6 years old), she's already in the region.

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Can't say this would deter me from going on a cruise, cause I don't think I would ever go on one in the first place. I've always thought of "vacation" as time spent away from people- not time spent confined to close quarters with people.

 

But some people are trying to avoid very specific people: Their employers. I know a guy that only vacations on cruise ships because he got sick of work calling him on his vacations. At $8/minute to call a ship, your employer has to REALLY want to get ahold of you.

 

Nothing a silence button or airplane mode can't cure.

 

^I suppose I ought to try it before I rail on it, you're correct.

You really should. To be completely frank, if you've never been on a cruise, have no idea what a cruise is like, and have no interest in cruising, and your only agenda is to bash something you're clueless about, please do not post in this thread again. Thank you.

 

EDIT: Honestly, have you ever READ any of our cruise trip reports?

http://www.themeparkreview.com/parks/photo.php?pageid=570&linkid=10080

http://www.themeparkreview.com/parks/photo.php?pageid=570&linkid=8275

 

Does that REALLY look like the equivalent of "time spent confined to close quarters with people like being at a gym?"

 

Honestly, it just really pisses me off sometimes when people post stuff like this. Sorry Ed for getting harsh on 'ya, but it just really annoys me when people have zero experience with something, but post as though they do.

Edited by robbalvey
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I don't understand why so many people are trying to defer blame or whatnot from Carnival.

Because people are stupid?

 

Of course it all falls on the parent company. They own, run, train, organize, design, inspect, and hire, all their subsidiaries! How can they not be included in any discussions? I mean look at the Walt Disney Company, a corporation. The Walt Disney World company is a subsidiary of the parent company, but when something happens at the parks, it absolutely falls entirely on The Walt Disney Company. No one would ever say, oh, just blame The Walt Disney World company, not The Disney Company. Just because Costa Cruises doesn't have Carnival in their name doesn't make it any different than Walt Disney World and the Walt Disney Company.

Exactly! If there was an incident at Epcot, or Hong Kong Disneyland, or California Adventure, we would be talking about DISNEY!

 

Epcot is the "product" or the "brand", Disney is the "company". In this case, Costa is the "product" or the "brand", Carnival is the "company."

 

I have no idea why this concept is so difficult for people to understand.

 

--Robb

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Robb, I think people are trying to deflect blame off of Carnival Cruise Lines, not Carnival Corporation. There is no reason why Carnival Cruise Lines should receive flak for something that occurred on another cruise line across the globe, and the media just reports it as 'Carnival' and make no distinction between the 'cruise line' and 'corporation'. If you venture to CCL's Facebook page, you'll see what I mean... people are blaming them.

 

Let's twist it this way- let's say, God forbid, something occurred to a Celebrity ship. The media reports Celebrity is owned by Royal Caribbean (not Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., they just say Royal Caribbean) and everyone begins blaming Royal Caribbean International (the cruise line). Same thing.

Edited by tntornadox
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^Personally, I wouldn't be so quick to suggest that the victims of this accident are pikers. Since you weren't there, you have no idea what it was like. It sounds incredibly scary to me. I imagine a great deal of the passengers felt as if they were about to die and not in that cool roller coaster kind of way.

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^^^But I would completely understand that and that would be the title of the thread if that happened too! If the Celebrity Solstice sank you can damn well believe everything would say "Royal Caribbean Celebrity Ship Sinks". Like others have said, the parent companies are ALWAYS involved and ultimately responsible leagally and in the public's eyes.

 

Like the Ride the Ducks thing, or the Showboat issues that have come up, Herschend and the parks are always in the news because it's the recognizable part of the parent company.

 

^I don't know Joe, I kind of agree with chemical_echo. The water didn't have ice bergs and they could see the shore less than 200yds away. I agree it would be terrifying, but it's not nearly as devastating or terrifying as the Titanic!

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