ginzo Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 ^^^Or what about how Kennywood runs its coasters without air gates. ***GASP*** What about the children??? We need to protect the children! Or what about all the parks that still run their woodies with buzz bars? Oh noes! Phoenix and Cornball must be killing riders by the dozen! I think this sort of thing generally just makes people more alert to the very real danger that the coaster presents because otherwise idiots would be getting mowed down by Phantom or jumping out of Phoenix every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost007jas Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 But this wasn't just some idiot that went to get his hat from an enclosed area or to prove that he was tough to his buddies. I dunno, I guess my pity for the kid is outweighing my anger towards the parents and perhaps my logic towards this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFChris Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 ^^For a VERY long time, Disneyland did not have airgates on its coasters, either! I was taught at a young age 'stand on the dot or the train will hit you.' Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I was taught at a young age 'stand on the dot or the train will hit you.' Same. And now that is lost in our 'dumbed down' sue-happy American society. If you don't stand on the dot, and a train hits you, it is now somehow the parks fault for your stupid action. It's really sad that we have come to this. If a 2 yr old sneaks out of the front door of their house and gets hit by a passing car....who are you going to blame? Are you going to blame the driver who just happened to drive by that house on that day? Yes, apparently ghost007jas would blame the driver because there wasn't an adequate fence around the car. ghost007jas, having read through all your comments, honestly I can see your point, and don't take this the wrong way, but it does read a bit "immature." I don't think you can fully understand until you are a parent yourself. I also think your comments towards Elissa are a little unfair considering she IS a parent and you are not, and I don't think you can fully appreciate or understand her perspective. Jake, my advice to you is this... *LISTEN* to the other people posting in this thread instead of just instantly being combative. Most of them have 10+ years of life experience ahead of you and many are also parents. LISTEN to what they have to say and try to understand because they have a difference perspective on things having that additional life experience that you do not. --Robb "Personally, I blame Kathy Fackler for all this..." Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaGuy Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I was taught at a young age 'stand on the dot or the train will hit you.' Same. And now that is lost in our 'dumbed down' sue-happy American society. If you don't stand on the dot, and a train hits you, it is now somehow the parks fault for your stupid action. It's really sad that we have come to this. If a 2 yr old sneaks out of the front door of their house and gets hit by a passing car....who are you going to blame? Are you going to blame the driver who just happened to drive by that house on that day? Yes, apparently ghost007jas would blame the driver because there wasn't an adequate fence around the car. I better retrofit the Jetta with a perimeter fence before I head out for my morning commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintballer Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 ^Why should there be fences? There haven't been fences at this particular fair for at least the 10 years it's been running and there was never an incident. Why the rush for fences? How about some personal responsibility!?!?!? I'm sick of people always telling companies how they should run stuff, how they need to install all of this idiot proof crap...how about just don't let idiots in? Darwin proved it best, natural selection...perhaps this was the toddler of that like 13 year old British father!?!? Because if there were adequate fences the child would still be alive? I'm all for personal responsibility, but you're going to sit there and tell me that a parent making one mistake means that this child should die? That doesn't seem fair to the child to me. Maybe the proper solution would be an age limit! I wouldn't mind not dealing with snotty 12 year olds all day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexinla Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Maybe the proper solution would be an age limit! I wouldn't mind not dealing with snotty 12 year olds all day! Some 12 year olds act more mature and responsible though then some 22 year olds that I have seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyweird Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 After reading the article and thinking about this, I have have concluded there were multiple factors involved in this accident, mainly: - The inattentiveness of the parents (human error) - The age and maturity of the child (2 year olds are very curious and oblivious to danger) - The proximity of the inflatable bounce house to the portable coaster. - Inadequate fencing (the fence did fail to stop the child, that much can't be ignored) Clearly, no single factor contributed to the death of this child. Having said that, it is unfair to pin the blame solely on the fair owners or parents, as making sure the fencing is childproof goes beyond the reasonable safety measures the park would be expected to take, and it is unfair to expect that nothing will ever distract the parents from their child, not even for a moment. Sometimes things just happen, and no can really be blamed for them. My sympathies go out to the parents, who are probably trying to make sense of what happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 as making sure the fencing is childproof goes beyond the reasonable safety measures the park would be expected to take Go back and read the last page of comments. If the fence was really the problem, children would be dying right at left. In this case, the fencing that was there seemed to work fine for TEN YEARS until this incident. So why NOW, because of parents who couldn't be bothered to watch their kids, do they need a new fence? Here, instead of just writing the same things over and over again, I'll just quote Elissa from the first place. Please, be sure you READ the thread before you post. There haven't been fences at this particular fair for at least the 10 years it's been running and there was never an incident. Why the rush for fences? How about some personal responsibility!?!?!? I'm sick of people always telling companies how they should run stuff, how they need to install all of this idiot proof crap...how about just don't let idiots in? Darwin proved it best, natural selection... The moral of the story - "Don't be an idiot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplepills Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 ^I read it as expecting the fence to be child proof was unecessary, and agreeing the fence wasn't 'at fault'. Initially I thought perhaps the fence wasn't good enough, but then everyone makes valid points about having to idiotproof everything. It doesn't sound as if there was some gaping hole the kid just walked through, or gross negligence. I guess its several smaller issues that on their own wouldn't normally lead to such a tragic event, but in this case did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandluke Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Personally, I blame Kathy Fackler for all this... Ugh. I'm writing about park safety for my argumentative writing course, and I have learned way too much about her and her endeavors. I guess can understand how some people are focusing on the fences, but I've always kind of viewed them as a "last resort" type of precaution. IMO, they're similar to those guardrails separating the highways. It's unfortunate if they fail and result in an accident, but there are almost always multiple preventable factors that occurred BEFORE the fence/guardrail ever came into play. They shouldn't really ever need to become involved, unless someone screws up in the first place. I'm legitimately curious as to where the parents were throughout this. I hate to assign complete blame on them without knowing all the facts, but based on an article in Sky News, it sounded as though the ride op for the coaster was the first to notice the kid and take action (that article said the op "saw him and rushed to stop him, but was too late.") I just find it a bit dubious that the parents would lose sight of their kid long enough for him to exit the castle, navigate through the fence, and onto the ride. Regardless, I still feel terrible for the family. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my 4-yr-old bro got injured, or worse, on my watch. I don't want to find out, either. EDIT: link to the aforementioned Sky News article. Not a lot of new info, but I found it a bit easier to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Here is a quote from the article: Keith Miller, general secretary of the Showmen's Guild, told Sky News Online: "I understand the young boy had just finished playing on an inflatable ride and then ran over onto the tracks of the Go-Gator, a juvenile ride. "There would have been a barrier surrounding the rollercoaster but he must have found a way around it." Mr Miller said the ride operator saw him and rushed to stop him, but it was too late. "I can't imagine why there was no parent with him," he said. Here is what I take away from it: - He wasn't supervised while he was in the bouncy castle enough for him to exit one ride and run towards another. - There WAS some kind of barrier around the Go Gator, but still he managed to get around it. Now, I know for example KidTums is FAST, but if there is a fence she nees to get around, there is always going to be a short delay where she'll look at said obstacle, assess the situation, and make an attempt. I do not believe this kid just got 'right through' the obstacle. - As stated above the RIDE OPERATOR saw him and tried to do something. (Not the parent) - A statement was made saying that no parent was with him. So, WHERE WERE THE PARENTS? I find it disturbing that this story made the front section of AOL this morning with the title of "Roller Coaster Death" and I think it is so unfair to the amusement and theme park indsutry to be labeled as such. This is CEARLY an example of bad parenting and I just have a feeling the parents are going to come out totally clean in all this. I want to feel bad for the parents, but I just can't. They SHOULD have been watching their child! That's what they SHOULD have been doing. I can't feel terrible or have sympathy for anyone who is this stupid and causes something like this to happen. They, IMO, basically "killed their kid" by not paying attention and the story is labeled as "Roller Coaster Death." It should be labeled "Stupid parents cause their two year old's death." The "roller coaster" shouldn't be at fault. Doesn't this seem wrong to anyone else? --Robb "I feel terrible about the situation, but not the family...they should have been paying attention!" Alvey EDIT - another article with a picture. Here's a quote: The fair was closed after the fatal accident, the first in nine years at a British fairground. Officials said there was a barrier surrounding the Go-Gator ride, but Erjon must have gotten around it or under it somehow. Clearly there is a fence. I ask again...where were the parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emiroo Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Hell yeah it's wrong, but which story would you rather read: Inattentive Parent Leads to Child Fatality or Roller Coaster Death! It's all about the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 ^ No, I totally get that...I'm just saying it sucks that's all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I hope you guys understand that Robb and I are not trying to be insensitive, we totally feel terrible for the child and I could not even believe what the parents are going through, but it was THEIR fault so they get to live with that. Pretty much the only one I feel sorry for is the Kid, and maybe the poor operator and spectators who saw this happen. I see good and bad parenting all the time. There's this terrible mother at Gymboree who has let her kids nearly die several times. The Gymboree staff and I have saved one of her boys multiple times from severe trauma or death...it's quite disturbing. Believe it or not there are BAD parents out there, just be glad if you guys had and/or are good parents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikaru-chan Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Something seems off about that picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplepills Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Hell yeah it's wrong, but which story would you rather read: Inattentive Parent Leads to Child Fatality or Roller Coaster Death! It's all about the $$$. Thats the problem with news headlines aswell, and it's not only that, its the hearsay. In 2 years time, people will forget what actually happened and recall how some kid fell out of the rollercoaster at this fair and died. At least the news conveyed the fact its been 9 years since a fatal accident (I'm guessing this means travelling fairs). I've corrected people on occasions who hear about teenage morons climbing over fences to get a hat and getting killed by a coaster, when they just say 'god yeah someone got killed on a rollercoaster in such and such a park.', simply because they read a headline in the news and not the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyuk200523 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Something seems off about that picture. I try not to normally get involved in these "no win" arguements" purely on the basis I give up too easily, but I really must agree......... There is a fence between the coaster and the other attractions, however, there is clearly no fence between the now deflated bouncy castle and the Go Gator Coaster, or am I missing something here???? I hate the way the UK (Even the worldwide press) Jump to conclusions in regards to accidents at Theme Parks, they always go for the larger company as a ScapeGoat, but in this instance it is clearly the parents/minders of the child and the partial fault of the fair company for not pre-empting something like this happening, whether this has been fine for 10 years or not, if there is any kind of fast moving machinery/attraction and a static ride with children bouncing about, there should be some form of fence between them. Especially in this day and age when anyone will try to sue for a quick pound (buck). That is all for now (I hope my point came across, think I kinda zoned out writing that, but reading it it kinda makes sense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984girly Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I work at fairground not involved in this incident, and was not there when it happened, and i have to say that daily we have to run around and catch toddlers that are not being watched or escaped the parents grasp and thats in the parks, its not an easy job, all rides are manned and protected by staff but we can't be everywhere........its a tragic accident and my heart goes out to the family involved. god bless little one xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyweird Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 as making sure the fencing is childproof goes beyond the reasonable safety measures the park would be expected to take Go back and read the last page of comments. If the fence was really the problem, children would be dying right at left. In this case, the fencing that was there seemed to work fine for TEN YEARS until this incident. So why NOW, because of parents who couldn't be bothered to watch their kids, do they need a new fence? Here, instead of just writing the same things over and over again, I'll just quote Elissa from the first place. Please, be sure you READ the thread before you post. There haven't been fences at this particular fair for at least the 10 years it's been running and there was never an incident. Why the rush for fences? How about some personal responsibility!?!?!? I'm sick of people always telling companies how they should run stuff, how they need to install all of this idiot proof crap...how about just don't let idiots in? Darwin proved it best, natural selection... The moral of the story - "Don't be an idiot." You completely missed my point. All I said was the fence failed to stop the child from entering the ride area. Had it done so, the child would still be alive. Nonetheless, it is completely unreasonable to expect the fair to make sure all their fences are childproof. The fair took reasonable safety precautions to prevent people from entering the ride area, and thus can't be held accountable for the child's death. I will now address the parental factor. We cannot judge the parents because we do not have any precedent with which to judge them. It is entirely possible that they are very good parents who just had a rare moment of inattentiveness. If that is indeed the case, then they cannot be held accountable for their child's death because even good parents make mistakes from time to time. However, if the parents proved to be chronically inattentive to their child, then obviously they can and should be held accountable. I hope I've made myself clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Behemoth_Lady_Jess Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I worked (volunteered) for a kids daycamp/play group last year summer and have been babysitting for afew years now. Young children are such curious little creatures, they're not trying to be "bad" or anything. It's human nature. The need to explore. I've had to stop kids from climbing trees and fences before. Just shows how it takes more than a barricade to stop them. My most heartfelt condolences for the family... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 There is a fence between the coaster and the other attractions, however, there is clearly no fence between the now deflated bouncy castle and the Go Gator Coaster, or am I missing something here???? It's impossible to tell because none of us can see an overview shot, but I'm assuming that, if that IS the now-deflated bouncy castle that the side you are seeing which is next to the coaster is the SIDE of the bouncy castle. The side in which is an area not accessible to guests. I would assume that the FRONT of the castle faced the same direction as the front of the coaster, and there was probably a fence there just as there is shown on the coaster. I'm guessing what happened here is that the kid walked out of the bouncy castle, went over to the coaster and probably squeezed through the bars or a break in whatever fence is there, but we can't see in this picture. In all of the reports "officials" (hoping that meant police officers) reported there WAS in fact a fence, and I don't see what good it would do to anyone if a third party "official" or witness was to lie about such a thing. And regardless, this goes back to the arguement of "why do we even need a fence if someone was actually WATCHING their kid in the first place." I don't think we should keep bringing up the fence. The fence or lack of fence is not at fault here.... --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Actually, I think I just found another photos which backs up what I'm thinking.... It's hard to see in this picture, because it's a bit far away and some things are out of the shot. My guess is that the red arrow points to where you enter/exit the bouncy castle. And the circle is the fence the kid got around. It would seem to be that if a kid was able to run out of one ride, around or through another ride's fence, and then into the area of the coaster, and as the ride operator reported, there was STILL no parents around? What happened to them? Also, in this shot it would appear that the end of the fence, closest to the coaster is turned to openly expose the coaster. We don't know if this was NOT the case when the fair was opened and the fence is open in this picture because emergency workers needed to get into that area, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost007jas Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 If I had to guess about the absence of the parents I would say that the kid went into the bounce house (obviously the parents would not be able to accompany their child inside) and when the child and the presumably large throng of children exited, they could not pick the kid out right away. Odds are, they were waiting across the way for their kid to come back to them, and in that time the child found a way to get into the coaster area. That's my guess anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 If I had to guess about the absence of the parents I would say that the kid went into the bounce house (obviously the parents would not be able to accompany their child inside) and when the child and the presumably large throng of children exited, they could not pick the kid out right away. Odds are, they were waiting across the way for their kid to come back to them, and in that time the child found a way to get into the coaster area. You really need to get off this "It's not the parents fault" kick. Seriously, there are so many things wrong with what you just said, but I don't think you will ever quite understand because YOU ARE NOT A PARENT OF A TWO YEAR OLD. I, on the other hand, AM A PARENT OF A TWO YEAR OLD and I can tell you that your made up situation, is totally ridiculous. --Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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