You remember Tamar Fellner? Well she is about to haunt HW!

[Coasterkid20]

I'm sorry to report apperently after nearly 2 years of silence the "estate of Tamar Fellner" is suing the best theme park in the world Holiday World. Here is the link, http://masstort.org/masstort/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=79&mode=&order=0&thold=0. I hope, and think that it should get thrown out of court since afterall everyone knows that she was at fault. People like this shouldn't even be allowed to breath.............

[Scaparri]

After reading the complaint, what a joke. This is ridiculous. It seems they are just trying to take advantage of the incident and milk out every penny they can. I hope the Koch family and PTC fight this to the end.

[Coasterkid20]

^ Same here! I think that this is just a bunch of BS considering the fact that it has been shown many-a-times that HW was not at fault. I'm just hoping that the worst doesn't happen. And the worse would be HW would be required to "tame" the Raven down by adding Trims...... Of all the rides to add trims to this is at the very top of my list of DO NOT TRIM!

[Guest]

I just think this tragedy should have been laid to rest 2 years ago. It is sad to see that so many people are suing whomever they can these days.

 

I could have been on that band wagon almost a year ago. This has nothing to do with coasters, but if my doctor would have given me a c-section, my son would have never been diagnosed with Autism. It is pretty sad, and I really thought about it, and I had a legitimate cause. But, at the end, it came down to this, what good would it do, it wouldn't change the way my son is. And that is reality.

 

Now I don't think we will ever know what really happened to Tamar, but let me tell you, if she had her seatbelt off and stood up, then there should be no reason for this frivilous lawsuit. Period. HW was never found to be at fault after extensive testing after the accident. I feel sorry for the Koch family, and all of the people that had to be there for this horrific accident.

 

Just sorry to end up seeing this accident going to court, after way too long of a time. Just pathetic. If you ask me.

 

Katie

[Carnage]

I do beleive that she was at fault.

 

However, I also beleive that HW can and will be found somewhat at fault. Simply because they allowed it. I've seen quite a few pictures of lap bars that were left much higher then I ever would have guessed possible. The whole "one click" ride thing.

 

The fact that they allowed riders to ride with lap bars not totally down could hurt them. Possibly some sort of negligence.

[SharkTums]

Being at fault doesn't seem to really matter anymore!

 

Look at all the people suing fast food companies for making them fat and getting settlements! It's not like they were force fed!

 

The only thing I'm hoping that will come out of this lawsuit is finding out what happened to her fiance? He seems to have dropped off the face of the earth...maybe I watch CSI too much, but I have my suspicions!

 

Elissa "hopefully this will go away soon!" Alvey

[BiCoastal Kid]

^^I rode Raven multiple times with one click just the night before and I'm still talking to you... oh wait, that's right, I had my SEATBELT on. Y'know, that thing that belts you to the seat and makes it kinda hard to fly to your death?

 

^I totally think her fiance is to blaim for the whole thing... I smell a secret love affair!

[Carnage]

^ Yeah, I agree it was totally her fault for removing the seat belt. (Well I assume so, I don't know all the details).

 

But the thing is that you shouldn't have to depend on the seat belt. The park allowing one click rides like that could be viewed as letting the primary restraint be made less usefull(and it did seeing as she was killed).

 

I'm not saying the park did anything wrong. But in a civil case I think they would have a hard time defending that.

[Guest]

I agree BiCoastalKid-

 

There is one thing about a coaster....they may have both a seat belt and lap bar, but you technically only need one.

 

If Tamar had her seatbelt on, there wouldn't be this discussion would there? I highly doubt it.

 

If say your restraint came up during a coaster ride and you had a seatbelt on, YOU AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE. Seatbelts are used to restrain people. Otherwise they would have something else holding you in, in a car, right? How many horrible accidents are there every year in cars, and how many do you not know about them having to CUT the seatbelts off a person. That is what they are designed to do.

 

Even if EVERYONE was riding "one-click" that night, as long as you had your seatbelt on, there was nothing to worry about.

 

I know I have seen Robb and Elissa's videos, and I believe all SRM's were a 1 or 2 click rule. I have seen Elissa's lap bar up pretty high, and a seatbelt on, and she came off the ride. Not to pick on anyone, but as long as the restraints keep you in, then you are safe.

 

Katie

[SharkTums]

^Exactly...

 

The park allowed it because they knew if we all rode correctly (ie had our seatbelts on) we'd be fine!

 

If you watch some of our SRM videos you'll even notice that I'm pulling my seatbelt tight! I remember riding with Andrew Hartman, both of us having 1 click rides and holding on!!!!

 

Elissa "I'm still alive because I followed the rules and didn't do anything wrong!" Alvey

[Carnage]

^ But that's one of the things that could get the park in trouble.

 

Assuming all your guests are going to follow rules isn't always going to work. the park's legal responsiblity is to make sure that every guest is safe regardless of what they do.

 

Sure you can say "If she had her seatbelt on she'd be fine". But you could also say "If her lapbar was fully down she would have been fine".

 

Just playing a bit of devils advocate as I don't fully believe that HW will come out clean on this.

 

We need to remember that we're talking about a lawsuit. Lawsuits don't always follow "real world logic".

[Sir Clinksalot]

Isn't it the manufacturers who state what is an acceptable placement for the lap bars? Or is that totally determined by the parks?

 

I agree with most of the above posts. This is ridiculous, it's been 2 years.

 

Just let it fly off a speeding coaster train and die already.

[BiCoastal Kid]

The park allowing one click rides like that could be viewed as letting the primary restraint be made less usefull(and it did seeing as she was killed).

 

Well, to be correct, they were allowinf one-clicks earlier in the evening, but by about half way through they were making it 3 clicks. I pretty much remember being a little surprised. But that was the first night, Fellner fell before the second night ERT started.

[CoasterFanatic]

Facts:

Her lapbar never released

Her seatbelt was unbuckled

She was in the last row of the train

 

What I have always wanted to know is how anybody knew she was standing up?

 

// remembers hearing somewhere that technically the seatbelt *IS* the primary restraint

[robbalvey]

^ From what I remember of the reports there were several eye witnesses outside the park that saw her standing. I too also remember reading in the reports that the seatbelt IS the primary restraint (but don't quote me on that!)

 

--Robb

[pgathriller]

I can't believe it! :shock: This happened two years ago and there barely sueing!? It wasn't Holiday Worlds fault. The stupid lady unfastened her seatbelt and stood up and now two years later there sueing the park. I hate people like this! So many people sue now a days that it's to the point now thet we need to hand out permission slips before every ride that says the park or company will not be held responsible for what ever happens to you on the ride. Holiday World is going to fight this and the family is not going to get a penny out of the park!

[coaster1]

Fact is the park and PTC was found not responsible after the inmvestigation. Therefore, I hope they both sue the hell out of these people after it's thrown out or they are found not liable.

 

Personally if your so concered over the death, why in the HELL would you wait two years to file a charge? Seriously, if I felt something was unsafe and killed a family member of mine, I would file charges ASAP .. this is the problem with America and why things become so damn expensive.

[Guest]

You are right Robb.

 

Think about it this way guys and gals, if you have a lap bar and a seatbelt as your restraint on a coaster, your lap bar isn't the primary restraint.

 

Here is an example other then Raven. Phantom's Revenge has both, because of the really strong ejector air. Or S:RoS in SFNE. It somehow the lap bar EVER mis-functioned during a ride, then the seatbelt is there to keep you restrained. it isn't going anywhere. If I ever got a 1 or 2 click ride, my seat belt is gonna be extremely tight, just as Elissa said.

 

I doubt that the park is responsible. As enthusiasts, we are there to ride coasters. The parks rule can be one click for example. But they did their job and checked the lap bars and the seat belts. She took hers off. That is the person's fault. If anyone was to be that stupid to un-do their seatbelt on a fast extemely good woodie then well you are just plain stupid. Any person that has a brain wouldn't do that.

 

I am sure we will never know the whole story seeing as Tamar is dead (RIP) and as Elissa said, where is the fiancee that rode with her? He knows, cause he was in the car.

 

But not to drag this on, HW and the makers of the trains, (PTC) shouldn't be dragged into this. After a hard two years after that SRM, it should be laid to rest. There should be no law-suit. It's stupid and frivilous.

 

Katie

[CoasterFanatic]

Before this goes too far south, just know that Paula has addressed the enthusiast community regarding the lawsuit, and hopes that everyone will kind of "play it cool" regarding the events that happened that night. While you are still free (it is your right) to speak your mind, do realize that someone is probably reading it.

 

It was bad enough to be served with a lawsuit yesterday, but then to

check RRC this morning and see such ugliness...we felt we should say

something

 

On that awful night, we asked for everyone to show restraint and not

speculate. No one says it's easy, but it's important. If you have any

respect for us at all (or the industry), please stop the hatefulness

now.

 

Spewing this kind of venom is harmful to all parties involved. And

suggesting that the father be called ... that's way out of line.

 

We realize you are very passionate about your hobby. A lawsuit like

this is hard to accept, but it is a fact of life. The wording of the

lawsuit is not unusual; although I'm certainly not an expert, I'm told

the long list of accusations is typical.

 

Will was quoted in this morning's paper: "We continue to extend our

heartfelt sympathy to the Fellner family. This was a tragedy; and no

matter what happens, we can't lose sight of the human part of this

story."

 

Amen.

 

Paula Werne

Director of Public Relations

Holiday World & Splashin' Safari

[Guest]

I just saw that Ted, and was going to post it, you beat me to it!

 

I saw that, I know I haven't been trying to bash this whole situation. It unnerves me to no end, that this really just had to happen. I don' t think anyone is at fault here. Especially HW. They have been nothing but nice and graceful about this, and has extended their hands when times were tough.

 

I still love HW. And I will continue to go there for as long as I can.

 

Katie

[disneygurlz2s]

Wow... when I saw this topic the first thing I did was look to see if Robb had locked it. I believe this is a touchy subject........

 

See, after this accident happened a couple of years ago, I was reading about it on the internet (major news site) and followed a link to "another enthusiast website" (cough, cough) and there was quite the debate about this "one click" issue. Specifically mentioned and shown was our own Elissa White Alvey! That was how I came to find Theme Park Review!!

I remember that after this, Robb and Elissa edited a lot of their "Stark Raven Mad" pictures with some very funny (and sarcastic) comments, and I have since noticed that those photos are gone from their photo gallery entirely. I got the impression that Robb and Elissa took a lot of grief for their photos, but from everything I have ever read, this was a common practice at this park and at this event, and certainly not something the Alveys should have singled out for.

 

My opinion (cause I know you really care ) is this..... If it is your choice to board a ride and not secure yourself as tightly as you possibly can with the restraints provided, that is your problem. Personally, I bolt myself down, and still sit there and tug on the locked restraints to make sure they are secure. I am especially paranoid on looping coasters and have actually had nightmares of going up the lift hill and discovering my restraint is not locked. I was elated the day parks started adding a seat belt that attached from the seat to the shoulder harness!!

 

That said, however, I wondered then, and am still wondering now, how much responsibility does a park have to make sure park guests are using the restraints properly? I mean, isn't the point of a lap bar that clicks that it adjusts to fit different sized people, not to give the rider an option of how tightly they want to be held? In other words, had the Holiday World employees insisted that the lap bar be secured to as close to her body as it would go, would we even be having this discussion????

 

I know from following these boards for the past two years that coaster enthusiasts hate being "stapled" into rides, and it sounds like Holiday World recognized that and allowed the one click practice to go on, assuming that everyone would be sensible and not push it any further. Unfortunately, they (Holiday World) are now going to get burned for it, it seems, which is unfortunate.

 

Shari "staple me, nail me, I don't care... the thrill is still being on the train when it pulls back into the station" Shoufler

[robbalvey]

I don't have a problem with people discussing it, as this is a forum for people to discuss theme park related incidents, that said however, we won't allow it to get "ugly."

 

All I hope is that people will learn from this moving forward.

 

--Robb

[Neuski]

it is your choice to board a ride and not secure yourself as tightly as you possibly can with the restraints provided, that is your problem.

I understand what you are getting at, but if she had been seated in the front of the train, it would have been more than just her problem.

 

I just want to point out that the actions of one can affect more than just one person, i.e. the people in the train, the people on the ground, and of course the families.

[disneygurlz2s]

I honestly can't explain why this story gets me so fired up.... I wasn't there, I don't belong to any enthusiast organization/club and, as stated in my post above, my "coaster riding enjoyment" isn't going to be ruined if a ride op straps me in like an infant in a car seat. Perhaps my reason for feeling so passionately about this story is this....

 

In February 2002, my niece, who was like my little sister, was killed in a drunk driving accident. An off duty Sheriff's deputy, roughly the same age -23- as my niece, left a party (hosted by another off duty officer) and got behind the wheel of his car while being 2X over the legal limit. He was tailgating another car coming down the hill of a city street, and when he got the opportunity to pass the other car, he swerved, losing control of his vehicle and crashing head on into my niece. She died instantly; he died in the AirCare helicopter.

 

In the weeks/months that followed, my sister and brother in law were repeatedly asked if they wanted to sue. They could have sued his estate (his family), the party host (the other family could have, as well), etc. They chose not to sue anyone. Their feeling was-it was an ACCIDENT. The reality of the situation was that my niece was in the wrong place at the wrong time. She, too, had been drinking that night, but we had the assurance of the accident investigators that she neither caused nor could she have avoided the accident. My family felt that no monetary gain would relieve the heartache of losing her, and that any lawsuit would only prolong the suffering. Because she had been drinking, the lawyers for the "other side" would have done their level best to drag her name through the mud. It would have meant recounting that night, complete with photos and eyewitness accounts, etc...

 

I can only imagine what this woman's family will be put through, as well as the folks who own HW. It's just sad they can't see it the way my sister did.

 

Shari

[disneygurlz2s]

but if she had been seated in the front of the train, it would have been more than just her problem.

 

Which makes me think she chose the back seat for a reason...........

 

Shari "If she had been in front of me doing that, I would have made a scene" Shoufler