RCjunkie Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think it translates to: 4210 ft long Aquatrax! The other letters are just there to throw us off! SWEET!!! Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdcastle Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Valleyfair will get another water park expansion but not In 2016. What I got out of my last conversation with Mr Frazier was that they are adding 4 drop slides ssh o they can close the existing ones and put something else there. He didn't say that but thats what I'm gathering. Its the same thing as to why they are adding a new splash pad. This I can see happening. The body slides are still fun, and they fill a niche for kids old enough to graduate from the spashpad and too small for the speed and trapdoor slides, but there's probably a better use of the overall space in the area. The one key thing still missing are tube slides. I find them kind of meh, but people like them and waterparks build them. If they wanted to cheap out they could add some tube slides where the old speed slides were and paint the old ones, or else they could just replace the whole complex with something more modern. The old bathhouse needs to be rebuilt too. Men nowadays want privacy even if they didn't in the early 1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippindotsguy8 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 For one thing, the infrastructure really needs to be looked out. There are no sit-down restaurants to speak of (or just one if you count Chickie's and Pete's). C&P's is one and the Coasters restaurant is the other. The park is not big enough for a third one because I have never seen both of them at capacity at the same time. Plus nobody is coming to VF just for sit down food, this is not Epcot. I'm sorry, WHAT? C&P's and Coasters get filled up almost every day. While there are slow times, it would help to have a third large-sized restaurant on most days. Also, while guests may not go to a park specifically for good sit-down food, they always appreciate the convenience. Sure, I don't go to a park for the restrooms, but I'm glad they're there. Having nice locations to take a break and eat something good is a major plus at a park. It's becoming an expectation because it helps complete the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not "getting" a new coaster in a certain amount of time does not constitute "needing" a coaster. Yes it does if VF wants to keep up with the rest of the parks in the CF chain. Every other park in the chain over the last 5 years has received a new coaster except Mia and KBF. During that time KBF got a Windseeker that was removed and had also has received much love with Camp Snoopy, Calico Mine and Log Ride revamps among other additions. If VF does not want to become MiA they need a new coaster soon, it will be 9 years in 2016. There are so many things wrong with this post. KBF got a coaster a few years ago Coast Rider. Valleyfair got a coaster in 2011. MiA and WOF haven't got a coaster in 5 years. Dorney got a coaster a few years ago (Stinger) which I believe doesn't run anymore. They haven't got a "new" coaster since 2005, the last two were relocated coasters. California's Great America didn't get a coaster from 2001-2013 and they seem to be doing fine. Hell Cedar Point didn't get a coaster for 6 years, so I guess they must have really neglected the park. Also if you are getting a coaster just because you are trying to compete with parks that are out of your league the park will be in trouble. A new coaster is not a need right meow, the park needs to get cleaned up first which is what they are doing. When you get something new to attract people you want your place looking nice so people will come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCjunkie Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 For one thing, the infrastructure really needs to be looked out. There are no sit-down restaurants to speak of (or just one if you count Chickie's and Pete's). C&P's is one and the Coasters restaurant is the other. The park is not big enough for a third one because I have never seen both of them at capacity at the same time. Plus nobody is coming to VF just for sit down food, this is not Epcot. I'm sorry, WHAT? C&P's and Coasters get filled up almost every day. While there are slow times, it would help to have a third large-sized restaurant on most days. Also, while guests may not go to a park specifically for good sit-down food, they always appreciate the convenience. Sure, I don't go to a park for the restrooms, but I'm glad they're there. Having nice locations to take a break and eat something good is a major plus at a park. It's becoming an expectation because it helps complete the experience. Like you said they ALMOST get filled everyday but rarely both at the same time. Next time you see both are filled with a line at both restaurants take pictures and post them. In the last 5 years I have seen that maybe a half dozen times. Sure it would be a nice luxury to have a third sit down restaurant as an option at VF and I am not against it. I am just saying it is NOT a reason the park cannot add another coaster like CaliforniaPinto indicates along with outdated bathrooms and walkways. Sure nice restrooms are becoming expected more often now a days and helps the experience but restaurants, bathrooms and walkways have never stopped a park from getting a new coaster. Would it be great to update all that stuff? Of course. Are any of them stopping a coaster from being added to VF? Nope. VF has many needs like most parks but a coaster is now #1 on the list if CF wants to really increase attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danderson83 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Valleyfair got a coaster in 2011. Where did ValleyFair get a coaster in 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Valleyfair got a coaster in 2011. Where did ValleyFair get a coaster in 2011? Yeah, we got a coaster in 2011: A 19-year-old relocated kiddie coaster that's pretty lame even by kiddie coaster standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwaziBSRider1 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 To be fair...it was a half decent coaster at Dorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Like you said they ALMOST get filled everyday but rarely both at the same time. Next time you see both are filled with a line at both restaurants take pictures and post them. In the last 5 years I have seen that maybe a half dozen times. Sure it would be a nice luxury to have a third sit down restaurant as an option at VF and I am not against it. I am just saying it is NOT a reason the park cannot add another coaster like CaliforniaPinto indicates along with outdated bathrooms and walkways. Sure nice restrooms are becoming expected more often now a days and helps the experience but restaurants, bathrooms and walkways have never stopped a park from getting a new coaster. Would it be great to update all that stuff? Of course. Are any of them stopping a coaster from being added to VF? Nope. VF has many needs like most parks but a coaster is now #1 on the list if CF wants to really increase attendance. #1? That is debatable. It's all how you market something, to be completely honest. The new route 76 area was an excellent choice for VF. It adds an entirely new area for a family. In the eyes of an amusement park, drawing in families is ideal since it consists of multiple people. As opposed to a coaster which is for a thrill junkie, who usually travel alone or (usually) in very small groups. And to be quite frank, VF is more of a family park, with family-to-moderate attractions heavily outweighing the big thrill rides. Hence why they're going with water next year... A coaster would be NICE, but isn't always a necessity for drawing in people. It's all about a parks individual market, and what that specific park needs are. And here, it's less mega-coasters, and more "attractions (usually) everyone can enjoy". Or else the park would be building more thrilling rides if that is their target audience. Just my 2c. Edited October 30, 2014 by JonnyRCT3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ^^^And if you want to get really cheeky you got one this year too, Northern Lights. My main point is that you guys are getting the same treatment as other parks your size, so please stop whining about how you need a coaster and how you are being mistreated by CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyman6 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not "getting" a new coaster in a certain amount of time does not constitute "needing" a coaster. Yes it does if VF wants to keep up with the rest of the parks in the CF chain. Every other park in the chain over the last 5 years has received a new coaster except Mia and KBF. During that time KBF got a Windseeker that was removed and had also has received much love with Camp Snoopy, Calico Mine and Log Ride revamps among other additions. If VF does not want to become MiA they need a new coaster soon, it will be 9 years in 2016. There are so many things wrong with this post. KBF got a coaster a few years ago Coast Rider. Valleyfair got a coaster in 2011. MiA and WOF haven't got a coaster in 5 years. Dorney got a coaster a few years ago (Stinger) which I believe doesn't run anymore. They haven't got a "new" coaster since 2005, the last two were relocated coasters. California's Great America didn't get a coaster from 2001-2013 and they seem to be doing fine. Hell Cedar Point didn't get a coaster for 6 years, so I guess they must have really neglected the park. Also if you are getting a coaster just because you are trying to compete with parks that are out of your league the park will be in trouble. A new coaster is not a need right meow, the park needs to get cleaned up first which is what they are doing. When you get something new to attract people you want your place looking nice so people will come back. What?! Wow! Sweet! VALLEYFAIR GOT A NEW COASTER IN 2011!!! Can't wait to get to the park and ride it....................................................................................................oh wait, Valleyfair is my home park and I don't remember them getting a new coaster in 2011, or 2010 or 2009 or 2008...you get the point. I am not counting old used kiddie coasters and Northern Lights albeit an awesome "flat ride" is not a coaster. Valleyfair has not got a new coaster since Renegade in 2007. We have not received a coaster of any kind with inversions in over 30 years! We are not whining, just stating facts on what Valleyfair needs right now. Know your facts before you post cause it just kills your credibility. Also, what are you talking about when you mention getting "cleaned up first"? Valleyfair is one of the most clean, well landscaped and beautiful parks in Cedar Fair's chain. Didn't you read the post by voyager 6442? Here it is. "I just wanted to tell you guys how much I've enjoyed reading the VF thread. I started with the oldest post (2005?) and have been reading them in chronological order. It has been neat to see how much you guys love your park and hope for great things in the future. I hope you will get them, because you deserve them. I am 960 miles away from Minneapolis, and if I were going to be within several hundred miles of your park, I would definitely make a stop there." O.K. Next topic. I want to comment on a post by danthebooker, If that's the case, he's acting like an attention hungry school child by making you all play his cryptic little games. OR he's risking the insider info he has or claims to have. I for one have a source within the park who has told me about past expansions well before they were made public. I chose to keep that info to myself and a very select inner circle. I run less of a risk of it coming back that I said something and my source not letting me in on stuff. To each their own I guess. I'm hoping for a new coaster opening in less than three years and my source tells me I won't be disappointed. I'm not looking for attention, its fun to speculate! If I can get people talking or trying to solve a puzzle, GREAT! Look, the powers that make the decision on what to build where read these forums. I know this to be true. So, what is going to have maybe a little influence when they make their decision. Finding a forum where hardly anybody comments on it or finding a forum that is rapidly growing and is very active? When there is little activity that shows that nobody cares what they do. Lots of activity is attractive to the powers that make the decisions. Trust me on this one. If you don't like the puzzles then you don't have to try to solve it. I just think it a lot more fun, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsecar Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) ^^ I think your partially wrong on this. First of all, I wouldn't say VF is a "family park", we do have quite a few thrill rides such as Wild Thing, Steel Venom, Xtreme Swings, Renegade etc. And the water slide package coming in 2015 is definitely NOT geared towards families. The slides are what 90 foot tall drop slides? What little kid is going to want to go on that? The park has addressed the things that needed to be done (Planet Snoopy, Route 76, Dinos, Waterpark Expansion ect.) And it's time for a new coaster. Roller coasters are a huge part of what bring people to the park, and I agree that families are a big part of it, but also there are alot of teenagers like myself who get dropped off at the park, and we love coasters more than anything. So I'm just saying that bathrooms and more restaurants are nice, but it's got nothing to do with getting a new coaster. I believe, along with many other people that 2016 is the year for a new coaster. It's also the 40th Anniversary of the park, so that makes it even more believable that a coaster could be coming in 2016. I could be wrong, but I'm sticking to my thoughts, 2016 must be the year. Edited October 30, 2014 by madsecar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsecar Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ^^ I think your partially wrong on this. First of all, I wouldn't say VF is a "family park", we do have quite a few thrill rides such as Wild Thing, Steel Venom, Xtreme Swings, Renegade etc. And the water slide package coming in 2015 is definitely NOT geared towards families. The slides are what 90 foot tall drop slides? What little kid is going to want to go on that? The park has addressed the things that needed to be done (Planet Snoopy, Route 76, Dinos, Waterpark Expansion ect.) And it's time for a new coaster. Roller coasters are a huge part of what bring people to the park, and I agree that families are a big part of it, but also there are alot of teenagers like myself who get dropped off at the park, and we love coasters more than anything. So I'm just saying that bathrooms and more restaurants are nice, but it's got nothing to do with getting a new coaster. I believe, along with many other people that 2016 is the year for a new coaster. It's also the 40th Anniversary of the park, so that makes it even more believable that a coaster could be coming in 2016. I could be wrong, but I'm sticking to my thoughts, 2016 must be the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Not "getting" a new coaster in a certain amount of time does not constitute "needing" a coaster. Yes it does if VF wants to keep up with the rest of the parks in the CF chain. Every other park in the chain over the last 5 years has received a new coaster except Mia and KBF. During that time KBF got a Windseeker that was removed and had also has received much love with Camp Snoopy, Calico Mine and Log Ride revamps among other additions. If VF does not want to become MiA they need a new coaster soon, it will be 9 years in 2016. There are so many things wrong with this post. KBF got a coaster a few years ago Coast Rider. Valleyfair got a coaster in 2011. MiA and WOF haven't got a coaster in 5 years. Dorney got a coaster a few years ago (Stinger) which I believe doesn't run anymore. They haven't got a "new" coaster since 2005, the last two were relocated coasters. California's Great America didn't get a coaster from 2001-2013 and they seem to be doing fine. Hell Cedar Point didn't get a coaster for 6 years, so I guess they must have really neglected the park. Also if you are getting a coaster just because you are trying to compete with parks that are out of your league the park will be in trouble. A new coaster is not a need right meow, the park needs to get cleaned up first which is what they are doing. When you get something new to attract people you want your place looking nice so people will come back. What?! Wow! Sweet! VALLEYFAIR GOT A NEW COASTER IN 2011!!! Can't wait to get to the park and ride it....................................................................................................oh wait, Valleyfair is my home park and I don't remember them getting a new coaster in 2011, or 2010 or 2009 or 2008...you get the point. I am not counting old used kiddie coasters and Northern Lights albeit an awesome "flat ride" is not a coaster. Valleyfair has not got a new coaster since Renegade in 2007. We have not received a coaster of any kind with inversions in over 30 years! We are not whining, just stating facts on what Valleyfair needs right now. Know your facts before you post cause it just kills your credibility. Also, what are you talking about when you mention getting "cleaned up first"? Valleyfair is one of the most clean, well landscaped and beautiful parks in Cedar Fair's chain. Didn't you read the post by voyager 6442? Here it is. "I just wanted to tell you guys how much I've enjoyed reading the VF thread. I started with the oldest post (2005?) and have been reading them in chronological order. It has been neat to see how much you guys love your park and hope for great things in the future. I hope you will get them, because you deserve them. I am 960 miles away from Minneapolis, and if I were going to be within several hundred miles of your park, I would definitely make a stop there." What facts did I get wrong? The "we haven't got a coaster with _______" argument is pretty silly and can be used for just about any park. Well it is just my personal opinion but the area around mad mouse is hideous. I would love to see the area from the final turnaround of high roller to wheel of fortune get completely redone. The areas they have recently redone look amazing and I think they should fix the aforementioned area before building a new coaster, so the increase in guests brought by the coaster will see how nice the park is and want to come back. Edited October 30, 2014 by Fingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ^^ I think your partially wrong on this. First of all, I wouldn't say VF is a "family park", we do have quite a few thrill rides such as Wild Thing, Steel Venom, Xtreme Swings, Renegade etc. And the water slide package coming in 2015 is definitely NOT geared towards families. The slides are what 90 foot tall drop slides? What little kid is going to want to go on that? The park has addressed the things that needed to be done (Planet Snoopy, Route 76, Dinos, Waterpark Expansion ect.) And it's time for a new coaster. Roller coasters are a huge part of what bring people to the park, and I agree that families are a big part of it, but also there are alot of teenagers like myself who get dropped off at the park, and we love coasters more than anything. So I'm just saying that bathrooms and more restaurants are nice, but it's got nothing to do with getting a new coaster. I believe, along with many other people that 2016 is the year for a new coaster. It's also the 40th Anniversary of the park, so that makes it even more believable that a coaster could be coming in 2016. I could be wrong, but I'm sticking to my thoughts, 2016 must be the year. Actually, I wrote And to be quite frank, VF is more of a family park, with family-to-moderate attractions heavily outweighing the big thrill rides. It is not a family park, as you mentioned. It is more geared towards family & moderate rides than it is thrill rides, that was/is my point. And families doesn't mean children, it means families; Adults, teens, and children. The waterpark addition IS geared towards families, however. You also conveniently failed to mention that not only is Soak City adding the Breakers Plunge, the 90-foot speed slides, which is geared towards thrill seekers. But it is also adding Barefoot Beach, geared towards children. And Breakers Pipeline, which is geared towards groups/families. The 2015 addition is in fact, geared towards families since it has something for everyone. If you're still not convinced here is an excerpt directly from their website. “Whether guests are looking for relaxation at Barefoot Beach or want to seek out thrills on the Breaker slide complex, the new Soak City Waterpark will appeal to every age and interest level.” Families/groups are the target audience here. A new coaster would be nice, and some enthusiasts think it is "needed". However, the park itself has other plans, and are confident enough in them to spend millions of dollars, as opposed to building a coaster. Not saying a coaster could never happen, however, the current management has other plans they see best fit for the park and it's future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) What facts did I get wrong? The "we haven't got a coaster with _______" argument is pretty silly and can be used for just about any park. Well it is just my personal opinion but the area around mad mouse is hideous. I would love to see the area from the final turnaround of high roller to wheel of fortune get completely redone. The areas they have recently redone look amazing and I think they should fix the aforementioned area before building a new coaster, so the increase in guests brought by the coaster will see how nice the park is and want to come back. They actually are doing some work to that area. The restrooms just southwest of Mad Mouse have been demolished, and hopefully they don't have any replacement for it because that will help that "hideous" path near it. Also, almost all of the buildings across the midway from Mad Mouse and it's adjacent games station have been demolished for the 2015 waterpark expansion. They also removed Hydroblaster (those black waterslides) for the expansion. This should hopefully provide a little extra room for people on that walkway. I'm glad they're finally giving some attention to this walkway. Edited February 6, 2015 by VF15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdcastle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 There's really two problems I see with the way circulation is. First of all, they need a weenie in the back to spread out the visitors more; beyond Renegade it's a ghost town. A raft ride with most of the waterfalls defunct and a B-list coaster aren't enough to draw people back there. B&M Invert, WIndseeker, I don't care what, but something. Second, all the people heading to Soak City had to go through that narrow turn by the restrooms. Putting the waterpark way in back seems to be common in Cedar Fair parks, whether by choice or coincidence. Maybe they want people to walk by as many food stands as possible, but it's a pain carting your sunscreen, swimming suit, and towel all the way through the park. They could have easily built a new entrance with the wave pool so traffic wouldn't have to go 3/4 the way around Imax and through that turn by the Mouse. As far as a sit-down restaurant, first they need to deal with the issues at the ones they have. Three times I tried to buy food this season, and two of them it took over a half hour between lines and obviously understaffed food stands, and employees that showed no inclination to move a bit faster. Caribou could be expanded into the shop, or if they decide they absolutely have to have a shop selling souvenirs on each side, moved to a different location to provide a place to sit down. Maybe all the people standing behind the games that I never see anyone playing could help with food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaPinto Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 VF has many needs like most parks but a coaster is now #1 on the list if CF wants to really increase attendance. Not sure if you are being serious here, but in case you are - the #1 need is not a rollercoaster at this time. A list of needs in no specific order. 1. Upgraded restrooms 2. Expanded (beyond what is even being added for 2015) waterpark 3. Modern flat rides. 4. Expanded menu options (up to and including another sit down restaurant) 5. More efficient workers in food services. 6. Better guest flow in major corridors (some has been taken care of already) 7. Removal of "dead" areas of the park and/or unused facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 ^ Most of those are just general improvements that aren't huge and could be made over the offseason, so the park could potentially have most of those ready by the time VF gets it's next coaster in a few years. Also, I don't get why everyone says we need better restrooms because I've never had a problem with them. Could someone clarify this for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaPinto Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 DO you even read other people's posts before posting? Most of those are NOT general improvements that can be done during the off season. Fact of the matter, the infrastructure at VF is not ready for a major cap rollercoaster at this time and the crowds that it would bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCF Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 DO you even read other people's posts before posting?Most of those are NOT general improvements that can be done during the off season. Fact of the matter, the infrastructure at VF is not ready for a major cap rollercoaster at this time and the crowds that it would bring in. From an enthusiast point, yes. From a business and GP point, a new inverting coaster at VF will only make the park better, and fills a void that has been there for quite a while. Everything else either can be done in an off season, or done after the one major coaster. Basically, the park is trying to bring in the customers first, then the years after (hopefully) will keep the customers around with the other improvements you listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 ^^ Sorry, should've been more clear. I meant that those general improvements could probably get done over the next few offseasons (all of them happening in one offseason would be unrealistic). Adding another restaurant could probably happen without much hassle, and the only area of the park that is unused and should be torn down is the amphitheater. Better efficiency in food services just comes down to how they're trained, so if that's really a problem, it's up to the park on that one. I'm also pretty sure that a new flat and waterpark expansion #2 are somewhere on the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOLO Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 No matter how much we would like a new coaster at parks desperately needing one, they need to do general park improvements before getting a new coaster. It's about time for Michigan's Adventure to get one, I will admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaPinto Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 From a BUSINESS stand point, yes. From an ENTHUSIAST and GP point, a new inverting coaster at VF will only make the park better, and fills a void that has been there for quite a while. Everything else either can be done in an off season, or done after the one major coaster. Basically, the park is trying to bring in the customers first, then the years after (hopefully) will keep the customers around with the other improvements you listed. FTFY I realize you are young and do not realize how a business works. You have to have the facilities to manage larger crowds that a larger cap would bring in - at this point in the game, Valleyfair does not have that. IF you build a large cap coaster before said improvements are made, then the crowds will end up being a flash in the dark for a season or two and then will drop back to where they were before making the ROI non-existent and will make the next large cap take that much longer to appear. Not what enthusiasts want to hear as they would love their park to do the Six Flags Worlds of Adventure (Ohio) expansion model where 2-3 coasters are added every year. We all know where that got Geauga Lake. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is Valleyfair, not Cedar Point. You don't NEED a new coaster at this time. You will get one in the near future but it is not NEEDED like some of you younger fan boys keep spouting off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyfairfanatic Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) I'm a park services associate currently working at valleyfair, and here is my imput. I don't see a need for another sit down restaurant. I've been working at the park almost every operating day in the season, and I frequently visit, even when I'm not working. I have never seen Coasters and Chickies and Petes be even close to being filled at the same time. I've only seen chickies and petes fill a few times, on busy days in the summer. Take into consideration most branches in valleyfair are understaffed right now so it is difficult for lots of meal out put. I don't think valleyfair is anywhere near needing another sit down restaurant. Keep in consideration that Cedar Fair slated valleyfair for major growth. Major growth isn't just a sit down restaurant, Gary's source has said we wont be disappointed in 2016. Truth is we wont know what we'll get until September of next year, unless valleyfair starts teasing at a major attraction. Just my two cents. Edited October 31, 2014 by valleyfairfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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