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Yes. They are the knotts of their regions. They are destinations for people who live within that region, but it’s safe to say only a very small percentage of their guests visit from outside their region. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It’s a fantastic business if it works and a collosal failure if it doesn’t (looking at you six flags worlds of adventure). Again, I am not in any way shape or form saying knotts is not a very successful park. But let me repeat myself...my original comment was only in response to the person who posted suggesting they’d undertake a massive expansion to become a “major player.” There is no need for that. The rate at which they are growing now, building events like ghost town alive and the boysenberry festival into legitimate draws while still adding new rides and improving haunt is PERFECT for them. Undertaking a massive expansion including demolishing and rebuilding a hotel and expanding the park into the cleared space would easily be the largest capital outlay in cedar fairs history.

I'm curious to know, under your definition, what parks--aside from anything Disney and Universal--that do qualify as a "major player". Not trying to be snarky, honestly curious. Disney and universal are THE major players that have brand recognition throughout the world and drive the industry. Knott's falls into what I consider the tier below that---strong regional force, where the attendance is largely made up of locals and neighboring areas (within 6 hour drive). But back to the KBF conversation...Does screamin swing even count as a flat ride if it's an upcharge? The Flyers is a capacity gain compared to that....

To be clear, I was only responding to the comment about the park demolishing/moving the hotel to become a “major player.” I am not in any way disputing knotts is a successful park. I am not disputing people on vacation visit the park. But we’ll have to agree to disagree on that making the park a “major player.” They are a very successful regional park. They benefit from being in a densely populated region and have carved out their niche in that market. I’d put money on the fact the majority of those 4 million guests are local/passholders. I am one of them. And visit for haunt too. There’s nothing wrong with that as a business model. They have done a phenomenal job growing their business with competitive pricing and seasonal events. Don’t think Disney and universal are in any way shape or form worried about them impacting business though, so that’s why I dont consider them a “major player.”

They're making moves across the street for future park expansion. The Church of Reflections is moving to a Lutheran Church. That area and the picnic are next to it could be used to relocate the hotel, opening up a large area to the south of the park. Not by 2020, tho. They do have a considerable amount of space south of Ghostrider already where they house the haunt mazes. But, they've been pretty adamant about NOT destroying the aesthetic of Ghost Town. The abandoned a large coaster back there for that very reason a few years ago. I DO think the park will eventually expand southward. With Disney pricing, the HUGE tourism number OC gets (48 million a year!), Star Wars land coming all add up to Knott's having an unprecedented opportunity with the right investment to become one of the biggest players in the theme park industry...will Cedar Fair spend that money, tho? They moved the church for more parking since they lost some with adding on to Soak City. Don't see them spending massive amounts of money to demolish one hotel and build a new one. They will never be one of the biggest players in the industry. The crowd taking vacations to Disneyland are likely not going to KBF. They are a locals park and will continue to grow that business. Knott's is the top park in the Cedar Fair chain in terms of attendance. It beats Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Canada's Wonderland by a fair margin. It also beats all Six Flags parks and all parks not named Disney or universal. When Disney added Cars land a few years ago, Knott's attendance dipped. The California Adventure park and Knott's are in direction compotition for the same customer. Yes, and that customer is locals. Disney can survive without them. Knotts has grown their business around them. People bought Disney passes/one day tickets instead of Knott’s. I suppose everyone’s definition of “major player” is different. Knotts has great attendance for what it is, but it’s not a true destination park to the point they’d demolish a perfectly functional hotel and build a comparable one. That would probably go down as the largest capital project in cedar fairs history. Don’t think there are many people planning a vacation that says “let’s go to knotts and add on Disney.” It’s the other way around for visitors. Just my opinion that major industry player means more than really good locals park.

They're making moves across the street for future park expansion. The Church of Reflections is moving to a Lutheran Church. That area and the picnic are next to it could be used to relocate the hotel, opening up a large area to the south of the park. Not by 2020, tho. They do have a considerable amount of space south of Ghostrider already where they house the haunt mazes. But, they've been pretty adamant about NOT destroying the aesthetic of Ghost Town. The abandoned a large coaster back there for that very reason a few years ago. I DO think the park will eventually expand southward. With Disney pricing, the HUGE tourism number OC gets (48 million a year!), Star Wars land coming all add up to Knott's having an unprecedented opportunity with the right investment to become one of the biggest players in the theme park industry...will Cedar Fair spend that money, tho? They moved the church for more parking since they lost some with adding on to Soak City. Don't see them spending massive amounts of money to demolish one hotel and build a new one. They will never be one of the biggest players in the industry. The crowd taking vacations to Disneyland are likely not going to KBF. They are a locals park and will continue to grow that business.

Well . . . at least Magnum XL 200 and the Big One are at amusement parks. I wonder what the whole thought process was of building Desperado in the middle of nowhere (it's not that far from the California/Nevada border)? The thought process was "we need to draw people in." Stateline WAS popular for Californian's who didn't want to drive the extra time onto the strip or deal with the strip since it used to be the first place to legally gamble before Indian casinos popped up all over CA.

Seems like nothing has changed in 15 years since I worked there. Still have a terribly undermanned cycle shop for train refurbishments.

I'm just shocked they haven't announced the date yet considering they have riders on it, even if they are employees. Employees riding doesn't mean anything. Employees are exempt from the state law requiring approval from the state to ride. They could still be days or weeks away depending on a lot of factors.

I wish a Park who does not follow ASTM standards good luck in winning a lawsuit brought against them. They are widely recognized as the unofficial standard in the industry, which is why states with amusement ride laws more or less come out to “follow ASTM standards please”

However, ASTM standards have existed long before 2017.... If you are a theme park/water park who cares about safety, you would be hiring outside auditors on a yearly basis to ensure compliance with ASTM standards. The report demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of anything related to ASTM.

I could see Mickey & Minnie's runaway railroad coming to Toontown in the next wave of expansion for DLR after Star Wars is a few years old.

Read the report. It's very clear the park management had no understanding of ASTM standards. Missing signage, missing documentation, incomplete training...

That's terrifying.

I can. NHL changed the rules since last expansion and teams could only protect 8 players. Gave a HUGE advantage to the Knights to build the team they wanted because teams either had to leave high priced veterans out there (like Marc Andre-Fleury) and/or make side deals with them to ensure they didn't draft players teams had to leave unprotected. They were also free from the salary cap constraints that hit previous dynasties who had to pay to keep their stars on the team. From that, they were able to build a team of 4 solid lines that can just keep coming at you with lots of speed.

What the now banned people are forgetting is: 1. This wasn’t for them. 2. People who think their item is secure and above rules are exactly why rules are there! No one is above a rule just because they think their band is secure.

This was not an “event.” You filled seats so they could get footage they needed. You got free admission to park and the opportunity to ride with no line.

The Harry Potter movies are the 3rd highest grossing franchise in history behind only Marvel's current cinematic universe and Star Wars. That doesn't even include how many kids read the book. If you are arguing that designing a land based on the assumption that all guests have seen the movies/read the books makes it less enjoyable for someone who is not familiar with the lore, I don't think you'll find anyone on here who disagrees. But the brand itself is a very powerful brand that is not going away in our lifetime. I haven't seen any of the latest Star Wars movies and it has been probably 20 years since I've seen the original trilogy. I have not read the Harry Potter books and I have only seen one of the movies. Doesn't mean they are not iconic franchises that will forever be part of pop culture history.

Harry Potter is here to stay. It's the modern equivalent of Star Wars. An entire generation grew up with it.

The minion ride sounds like it'll be a ride system like Mater's.

To clarify, I am not saying there is one. But it is common practice in the industry in markets with competition, so I would not be surprised. Reality is Knott's is going to have to make a decision again at some point on the future of the ride. It's not going to happen anytime soon (obviously), but I certainly wouldn't rule it out the next time they are asking themselves "this ride sucks now and is expensive to maintain. What should we do?" I still contend keeping the layout with topper track would make it a top 10 ride. It's currently the best GCI I've been on, but not even close to the laminated wood Intamins or RMC rides I've been on.

GhostRider will never be RMC'd in the forseeable future. Matt Ouimet has stated in interviews before that they have no plans to remove or change it in any way at any time in the future - and for me that was backed up when they spent so much time and money (successfully!) rehabbing it. It was one of the last projects (or maybe the last, I forget) planned by the Knott family, so it's sacred. I disagree about the thrill and/or forces anyway. I rode it (repeatedly) at WCB right after the rehab, and I think it's still easily one of the most forceful woodies on the west coast, just without the ouch. I can't wait to get down there for the next WCB and marathon it again. Nothing is sacred. It's easy to say now that it would never be converted while it is the brand new refurbished ride you just spent millions on. Once you've spent a few million dollars more refurbishing it to keep it running, your tune might change if a company happened to offer a solution that would reduce maintenance costs (and if there is a clause on exclusivity with SFMM that happens to expire after a certain amount of time) and keep it as popular as ever....

Much more likely is their deal with six flags prevents them from doing anything with a wooden coaster at knotts. Non-compete clauses within a certain amount of miles are common.

I would assume Six Flags would only touch it if they don't have to assume the liabilities from the incident.

I said after riding Balder for the first time in 2006 that GhostRider would be perfect for that laminated wood. Since then Topper track has been invented. It's going to tear itself apart again. I'm all for RMC making it stay good without the need for extensive track work every year!

No need to RMC Ghostrider. It is fine just how it is. Getting the topic back to KBF...I would absolutely LOVE an RMC conversion for GhostRider. The layout is already great, so they wouldn't have to do much.